219 réponses à ce sujet

[drayfish]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Reapers are the only reason that this entire cycle exists the way it does. They're the only reason we weren't enslaved by some group like the Protheans or Leviathans or some other race that evolved before us. Maybe you should be a little more thankful, and acknowledge that there is some grey to them.

Yay!  Thank you galactic overlords!

I'm glad to see that interpretation of this fiction has reached such a state.  Of course, we should be grateful to the creatures who exterminated countless innocent civilisations, who arrogantly dominated and mutated endless generations of beings against their will - because they obviously knew better than us how our lives should be lived.

What a beautiful tale.  And what a splendid way to end the journey of its central protagonist, being hopelessly sacrificed to a psychotic AI with no idea of what it's 'preserving', in service of the wonders of genocide, totalitarianism, or eugenics.

After all, it's apparently okay to be massacred and persecuted when someone thinks they know what's good for you.  It really is better the devil you know.

Modifié par drayfish, 22 avril 2013 - 01:32 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Aaleel wrote...
"Saving everyone only happens in vids.  There will be sacrifices, and being in command means making sure they lead to the greater objective.  That's a reality for all soldiers, in command and on the ground"
Shepard's own words, and pretty much my Shepard's mindset at the end.  Does Shepard regret the loss of the Geth and EDI, of course.  Was it in Shepard's mind the only way to guarantee with certainty that not one more life would be lost due to the reapers illogical and idiotic solution, YES.

True. I'm trying to convince myself that I am not choosing Destroy to kill off all Synthetics. I choose Destroy to end the Reaper Threat, to be the Avenger of every man, woman, child, and infant around the galaxy who have been harvested, indoctrinated, and killed by the hands of the Reapers. Not only the men, women, children, and infants that died in our time, but also for the ones who died in all the Cycles before us to the time of the first kill by the hands of the Reapers. This, despite the fact that EDI, and the Geth will be lost to us. I'm trying to fully convince that I chose Destroy for this and NOT  for the sake of killing off all Synthetics.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 avril 2013 - 12:35 .

[Reikilea]

I can´t miss sexbots or race that caused way too many trouble before.

Are you sorry for rachni? Are you sorry for batarians? Are you sorry for sacrificing the council? Are you sorry for sacrificing the fifth fleet? Are you sorry for everyone who lost their lives running to that beam?

Why should I feel sorry for Geth and not for the others. This war had many losses. Compared to the other losses losing Geth and Edi is not that tragic. I will miss everyone, but I will not only mourn one race. 

Modifié par Reikilea, 22 avril 2013 - 12:58 .

[OdanUrr]

drayfish wrote...

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

The Reapers are the only reason that this entire cycle exists the way it does. They're the only reason we weren't enslaved by some group like the Protheans or Leviathans or some other race that evolved before us. Maybe you should be a little more thankful, and acknowledge that there is some grey to them.

Yay!  Thank you galactic overlords!

I'm glad to see that interpretation of this fiction has reached such a state.  Of course, we should be grateful to the creatures who exterminated countless innocent civilisations, who arrogantly dominated and mutated endless generations of beings against their will - because they obviously knew better than us how our lives should be lived.

What beautiful tale.  And what a splendid way to end the journey of its central protagonist, being hopelessly sacrificed to a psychotic AI with no idea of what it's 'preserving', in service of the wonders of genocide, totalitarianism, or eugenics.

After all, it's apparently okay to be massacred and persecuted when someone thinks they know what's good for you.  It really is better the devil you know.

We should all become daleks... I mean, Reapers... I mean... Oh, just press the big red button already!

Modifié par OdanUrr, 22 avril 2013 - 12:32 .

[o Ventus]

OperatingWookie wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You live with it. You can't erase what you've done. No holy man or court of law can remove it. It simply is.

The Geth can be destroyed above Rannoch however.

It's wrong though. It's unforgiveable, a compromise of who you are.

"I won't let fear compromise who I am." That held up real well, didn't it?

It did, considering that fear wasn't my motivation.

[Argolas]

Reikilea, don't insult Edi. She is a legitimate member of a Normandy by that time and it would be stupid not to admit that.

(That does not mean I defend that "body". I am a straight guy and I don't find it even slightly attractive. I try to think of Edi as the ship.)

[Funkdrspot]

Taboo-XX wrote...

OperatingWookie wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

You live with it. You can't erase what you've done. No holy man or court of law can remove it. It simply is.

The Geth can be destroyed above Rannoch however.

It's wrong though. It's unforgiveable, a compromise of who you are.

"I won't let fear compromise who I am." That held up real well, didn't it?

Killing all those Batarians in Arrival was wrong too. But you did it. And fear had nothing to do with my decision. That quote is too abstract to possibly cover all the possibilities. War is not fun, nor is it for idealists. It is a nasty, horrible, fetid cry of despair.

There are no winners in war, there are only victims, victims of men who believe they are right.

Very few things are more insulting than a stoy that pretends life is easy because you try to do the right thing. It isn't realistic, nor is it very clever.

It is horrible. That's the point.

Excellent post. People loved ME for it's realistic view but came into ME3 expecting a Jason Statham movie and got Saving Private Ryan instead.

Then everything that lead to a real consequence was handwaved as 'forced', as though people don't die in war.

[Aaleel]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
"Saving everyone only happens in vids.  There will be sacrifices, and being in command means making sure they lead to the greater objective.  That's a reality for all soldiers, in command and on the ground"
Shepard's own words, and pretty much my Shepard's mindset at the end.  Does Shepard regret the loss of the Geth and EDI, of course.  Was it in Shepard's mind the only way to guarantee with certainty that not one more life would be lost due to the reapers illogical and idiotic solution, YES.

True. I'm trying to convince myself that I am not choosing Destroy to kill off all Synthetics. I choose Destroy to end the Reaper Threat, to be the Avenger of every man, woman, child, and infant around the galaxy who have been harvested, indoctrinated, and killed by the hands of the Reapers. Not only the men, women, children, and infants that died in our time, but also for the ones who died in all the Cycles before us to the time of the first kill by the hands of the Reapers. This, despite the fact that EDI, and the Geth will be lost to us. I'm trying to fully convince that I chose Destroy for this and NOT to kill off all Synthetics.

Why would you feel you chose destroy to kill all synthetics?

Was the crucible built with the goal of killing all synthetics?  Nope.
Was the crucible deployed to kill all synthetics? Nope.
Was the final assualt on Earth to kill all synthetics? Nope.
Was it the plan to use the crucible to destroy reapers and reapers only to end the cycle before you saw the Catalyst? Yep.

Just becasue Shepard finds out at the very last moment that the plan designed, agreed upon and executed by everyone as the best way to deal with the reapers would cost the lives of EDI and Geth does not make that your intent.  It just makes it a heavy sacrifice.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Aaleel wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
"Saving everyone only happens in vids.  There will be sacrifices, and being in command means making sure they lead to the greater objective.  That's a reality for all soldiers, in command and on the ground"
Shepard's own words, and pretty much my Shepard's mindset at the end.  Does Shepard regret the loss of the Geth and EDI, of course.  Was it in Shepard's mind the only way to guarantee with certainty that not one more life would be lost due to the reapers illogical and idiotic solution, YES.

True. I'm trying to convince myself that I am not choosing Destroy to kill off all Synthetics. I choose Destroy to end the Reaper Threat, to be the Avenger of every man, woman, child, and infant around the galaxy who have been harvested, indoctrinated, and killed by the hands of the Reapers. Not only the men, women, children, and infants that died in our time, but also for the ones who died in all the Cycles before us to the time of the first kill by the hands of the Reapers. This, despite the fact that EDI, and the Geth will be lost to us. I'm trying to fully convince that I chose Destroy for this and NOT to kill off all Synthetics.

Why would you feel you chose destroy to kill all synthetics?

Was the crucible built with the goal of killing all synthetics?  Nope.
Was the crucible deployed to kill all synthetics? Nope.
Was the final assualt on Earth to kill all synthetics? Nope.
Was it the plan to use the crucible to destroy reapers and reapers only to end the cycle before you saw the Catalyst? Yep.

Just becasue Shepard finds out at the very last moment that the plan designed, agreed upon and executed by everyone as the best way to deal with the reapers would cost the lives of EDI and Geth does not make that your intent.  It just makes it a heavy sacrifice.

I don't. I just don't want it to make it seem like I am. It's that guilty conscience plus the whole "Genocide" claim that some people use against me choosing Destroy. I don't want to choose Destroy thinking that I'm also doing this to get rid of all Synthetics. 

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 avril 2013 - 12:55 .

[OdanUrr]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...
"Saving everyone only happens in vids.  There will be sacrifices, and being in command means making sure they lead to the greater objective.  That's a reality for all soldiers, in command and on the ground"
Shepard's own words, and pretty much my Shepard's mindset at the end.  Does Shepard regret the loss of the Geth and EDI, of course.  Was it in Shepard's mind the only way to guarantee with certainty that not one more life would be lost due to the reapers illogical and idiotic solution, YES.

True. I'm trying to convince myself that I am not choosing Destroy to kill off all Synthetics. I choose Destroy to end the Reaper Threat, to be the Avenger of every man, woman, child, and infant around the galaxy who have been harvested, indoctrinated, and killed by the hands of the Reapers. Not only the men, women, children, and infants that died in our time, but also for the ones who died in all the Cycles before us to the time of the first kill by the hands of the Reapers. This, despite the fact that EDI, and the Geth will be lost to us. I'm trying to fully convince that I chose Destroy for this and NOT to kill off all Synthetics.

Why would you feel you chose destroy to kill all synthetics?

Was the crucible built with the goal of killing all synthetics?  Nope.
Was the crucible deployed to kill all synthetics? Nope.
Was the final assualt on Earth to kill all synthetics? Nope.
Was it the plan to use the crucible to destroy reapers and reapers only to end the cycle before you saw the Catalyst? Yep.

Just becasue Shepard finds out at the very last moment that the plan designed, agreed upon and executed by everyone as the best way to deal with the reapers would cost the lives of EDI and Geth does not make that your intent.  It just makes it a heavy sacrifice.

I don't. I just don't want it to make it seem like I am. It's that guilty conscience plus the whole "Genocide" claim that some people use against me choosing Destroy. I don't want to choose Destroy thinking that I'm also doing this to get rid of all Synthetics. 

Will it stop the Reapers?

[o Ventus]

Why would it "seem" like anything?

Modifié par o Ventus, 22 avril 2013 - 12:52 .

[Reikilea]

Argolas wrote...

Reikilea, don't insult Edi. She is a legitimate member of a Normandy by that time and it would be stupid not to admit that.

(That does not mean I defend that "body". I am a straight guy and I don't find it even slightly attractive. I try to think of Edi as the ship.)

For you maybe. For me her ME3 version is waste of resources and it also creation of a questionale squadmate that seems way to suspicious to be allowed to be part of the ship. Yes, I mean Eva Core top notch infiltrattion unit . And as I woman I can look over her body, I am used to that in games. But I cant overlook the inconsistend story behing her creation.

I love ME2 Edi. I was deeply saddened but what they did to her in ME3.  It´s lot of missed opportunities.

Modifié par Reikilea, 22 avril 2013 - 12:54 .

[MegaSovereign]

Don't hold the Galaxy hostage over a special interest group.

If the Geth and EDI are more important than the future of the Galaxy than you should have no trouble choosing Control.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

It does stop the Reapers. I just don't want to end up thinking as I'm shooting the Power Conduit, "I don't care I just want the Reapers dead."

I decision does not come without consequence and sacrifice. I know that. It's just a heavy feeling when choosing. Much more heavier than choosing between Ashley and Kaidan on Virmire. In Arrival, the Story had you choose to delay the Reapers returning. You didn't make the choice. So this feels different.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 avril 2013 - 12:55 .

[Phatose]

Look man, what do you want us to do here?

The problem here seems to be that you're doing what you're doing for the specific reason of hate, and you don't like that. That's not something we can do anything about. Your motivations are your own.

We could give you a thousand different reasons to choose destroy, but at the end of the day, they won't be your reason.

If you don't like doing things out of hatred, then don't. Find a better reason.

Modifié par Phatose, 22 avril 2013 - 01:04 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Phatose wrote...

Look man, what do you want us to do here?

The problem here seems to be that you're doing what you're doing for the specific reason of hate, and you don't like that. That's not something we can do anything about. Your motivations are your own.

We could give you a thousand different reasons to choose destroy, but at the end of the day, they won't be your reason.

If you don't like doing things out of hatred, then don't. Find a better reason.

As I said in my Previous Post, I'm trying to convince myself that I am not choosing Destroy to kill off all Synthetics. I choose Destroy to end the Reaper Threat, to be the Avenger of every man, woman, child, and infant around the galaxy who have been harvested, indoctrinated, and killed by the hands of the Reapers. Not only the men, women, children, and infants that died in our time, but also for the ones who died in all the Cycles before us to the time of the first kill by the hands of the Reapers. This, despite the fact that EDI, and the Geth will be lost to us. I'm trying to fully convince that I chose Destroy for this and NOT  for the sake of killing off all Synthetics. And I don't want people to think that I'm doing it to kill all Synthetics.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 avril 2013 - 01:12 .

[Phatose]

Well, are you? The only one who knows that is you.

[Xilizhra]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Phatose wrote...

Look man, what do you want us to do here?

The problem here seems to be that you're doing what you're doing for the specific reason of hate, and you don't like that. That's not something we can do anything about. Your motivations are your own.

We could give you a thousand different reasons to choose destroy, but at the end of the day, they won't be your reason.

If you don't like doing things out of hatred, then don't. Find a better reason.

As I said in my Previous Post, I'm trying to convince myself that I am not choosing Destroy to kill off all Synthetics. I choose Destroy to end the Reaper Threat, to be the Avenger of every man, woman, child, and infant around the galaxy who have been harvested, indoctrinated, and killed by the hands of the Reapers. Not only the men, women, children, and infants that died in our time, but also for the ones who died in all the Cycles before us to the time of the first kill by the hands of the Reapers. This, despite the fact that EDI, and the Geth will be lost to us. I'm trying to fully convince that I chose Destroy for this and NOT  for the sake of killing off all Synthetics. And I don't want people to think that I'm doing it to kill all Synthetics.

Here's a helpful point of advice.

The Reapers did not do any of that. They were just the tools of the Catalyst. The Catalyst dies in all endings except Refuse. Know that your vengeance is complete no matter what option you take. You may choose any of the three endings with a clear conscience.

[mcsupersport]

I just want to know how a ray of light/energy manages to kill Programs(Geth) on computer systems without destroying everything else that uses programs in existence. Geth aren't hardware, they are software, and yet somehow the stupid red beam of death manages to kill them on board the Quarian life suits...without killing the Quarians too. The Red Ray of Death, manages to kill Geth loaded on ships mainframes, without taking out any of the other crap there necessary to the running of your average battleship in space.....

I can see EDI dying, cause she is based on Reaper hardware, but again, Geth are software...so I have to call BS on their dying unless all of the computers/hardware of modern man/alien is destroyed as well. Thus pretty much knocking everyone back to stoneage time, and meaning the probable death of +90% of the galaxy due to loss of trade and technology after a major disaster, ie the war with the Reapers.

[Xilizhra]

mcsupersport wrote...

I just want to know how a ray of light/energy manages to kill Programs(Geth) on computer systems without destroying everything else that uses programs in existence. Geth aren't hardware, they are software, and yet somehow the stupid red beam of death manages to kill them on board the Quarian life suits...without killing the Quarians too. The Red Ray of Death, manages to kill Geth loaded on ships mainframes, without taking out any of the other crap there necessary to the running of your average battleship in space.....

I can see EDI dying, cause she is based on Reaper hardware, but again, Geth are software...so I have to call BS on their dying unless all of the computers/hardware of modern man/alien is destroyed as well. Thus pretty much knocking everyone back to stoneage time, and meaning the probable death of +90% of the galaxy due to loss of trade and technology after a major disaster, ie the war with the Reapers.

This is why Control is the only option that really makes physical sense in a way we understand now.

[Spartas Husky]

Geth and EDI didn't die least every biotic in the galaxy be left brain dead. or retarded.

[Aaleel]

mcsupersport wrote...

I just want to know how a ray of light/energy manages to kill Programs(Geth) on computer systems without destroying everything else that uses programs in existence. Geth aren't hardware, they are software, and yet somehow the stupid red beam of death manages to kill them on board the Quarian life suits...without killing the Quarians too. The Red Ray of Death, manages to kill Geth loaded on ships mainframes, without taking out any of the other crap there necessary to the running of your average battleship in space.....

I can see EDI dying, cause she is based on Reaper hardware, but again, Geth are software...so I have to call BS on their dying unless all of the computers/hardware of modern man/alien is destroyed as well. Thus pretty much knocking everyone back to stoneage time, and meaning the probable death of +90% of the galaxy due to loss of trade and technology after a major disaster, ie the war with the Reapers.

How can the crucible target every living thing in the galaxy in Synthesis, then can target just reapers in Control but has to target all Synthetics in Destory?

You just picked out this one part lol.  None of it makes any sense.

[Spartas Husky]

Aaleel wrote...


You just picked out this one part lol.  None of it makes any sense.

Wait wait wait... there was a time the ending made sense???

[Auld Wulf]

One deals with this by realising three simple things;

A.) The Reapers are slaves to the will of the Catalyst, it controls their minds;
B.) Two of the four endings free the Reapers from enslavement (one through death);
C.) Three of the four endings remove the Catalyst from power.

There's no reason to hate the Reapers. I ran a poll on this a while back and thankfully it did open a few eyes, at least. The Reapers are victims -- victims of what's basically mind rape. They deserve to die for that? Do they? You answer that. I've gone past expecting people to think less two dimensionally, or to set aside their black & white binary thinking, but... you asked.

You don't have to kill the Geth, or EDI. That's a choice. You kill the Geth and EDI because you want to. To choose Destroy is to say that you want them dead, because there's always another choice. A better choice.

But this isn't the Deus Ex community. So erudite, enlightened, intellectual discussion isn't too common. It's more "RAR. LOOK AT THE SIZE OF MY NUTS. I R KILL REAPERS, RAR!"

Even the Catalyst DLC makes fun of that. (Yes, I went there.)

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 22 avril 2013 - 01:53 .