219 réponses à ce sujet

[kalasaurus]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I Love Destroy. I have nothing but anger for the Reapers. They have been harvesting, indoctrinating, and murdering for quite possibly millions of years, maybe longer. More than I can count. I stand there on the Citadel at the final moment. I got the Reapers by the balls, so there's no doubt that the Catalyst became desperate at this moment in time. I like to think that the Catalyst took the form of the Child I saw die on Earth as a way of compassion and persuasion. I didn't fall for it. I'm not going to listen to the head honcho of the Reapers at the very last minute, wounded or not.

I just don't want to feel guilty about the loss of EDI and the Geth. I'm trying to explain this without sounded like an a-hole, without people believing that I thought of them as a "necessary" sacrifice/loss. Because I don't. EDI and the Geth were friends. They fought to free the Galaxy from the Reapers and to get rid of the Reapers forever. I hate it when people use them against my opinion for choosing Destroy. I don't hate EDI and the Geth. I like them. I just don't like the Reapers. I hate the Reapers. How does one deal with this?

I headcanon that one of my Shepards will likely fall into a deep depression after the destruction of the Reapers.  She's a Colonist/  Sole Survivor who romanced Thane (got back with Kaidan, but still...).  She'll have to just learn to deal somehow.  She made a hard choice and will question if she made the right one for the rest of her life.

[Xilizhra]

And I am not comfortable with Synthesis. Peace between Organics was achieved. The Theme "Organics Vs Synthetics" ended on Rannoch. We can have Peace without Synthesis, without the Reapers, and without the Catalyst.

Rather, a single conflict ended there. And the peace does not, in fact, last if the geth are wiped out.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

It's hard forgetting about the other Endings. No matter how much you choose Destroy, the other Endings are there in your face, as it they are trying to lure you in, especially Synthesis.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...


You don't have to kill the Geth, or EDI. That's a choice. You kill the Geth and EDI because you want to. To choose Destroy is to say that you want them dead, because there's always another choice. A better choice.

How? I didn't choose Destroy to get rid of the Geth and EDI. I wanted to rid the Galaxy of the Reapers and the Catalyst.

I don't hate EDI nor do I hate the Geth. I hate the Reapers and the Catalyst.

And I am not comfortable with Synthesis. Peace between Organics was achieved. The Theme "Organics Vs Synthetics"  ended on Rannoch. We can have Peace without Synthesis, without the Reapers, and without the Catalyst.

There are a few things in Synthesis that does not feel "Complete"  for me. In High EMS Destroy it does. You go through this ENTIRE Trilogy, and in the end, Synthesis sticks out like a ****ing sore thumb. 

Don't listen to this guy. Seriously. He lives in a world of headcanon, and he will use it as valid justification.

His argument for destroyers being terrible people is that because they choose destroy, they must hate change, technology, the Geth, and EDI, and science. 

His argument in support of synthesis: Joker gets laid.

[Vigilant111]

Xilizhra wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Just the dominating, then? Cool. As long as you can bargain the hypocrisy of that away, you're good.

Someone will be dominating someone no matter what happens with the Reapers. It's a matter of who has the most power. I don't believe it's inherently evil for that to be me.

Again: the Catalyst believed precisely the same thing of himself and the universe.

Tell me. How would you achieve a galaxy with no domination?

Take that from the protheans, they dominated, they failed,; take it from the reapers, they dominated, they failed

[MassivelyEffective0730]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

It's hard forgetting about the other Endings. No matter how much you choose Destroy, the other Endings are there in your face, as it they are trying to lure you in, especially Synthesis.

Then it's simple. Don't let them lure you in.

I believe that the Catalyst believes in what it is saying. I also think it's full of non-sense. 

It tells me how to destroy because there's probably a program in its logic preventing it from witholding information.

It can spout whatever non-sense it wants, I'm shooting the tube.

[drayfish]

Xilizhra wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Just the dominating, then? Cool. As long as you can bargain the hypocrisy of that away, you're good.

Someone will be dominating someone no matter what happens with the Reapers. It's a matter of who has the most power. I don't believe it's inherently evil for that to be me.

Again: the Catalyst believed precisely the same thing of himself and the universe.

Tell me. How would you achieve a galaxy with no domination?

If your imagination for social order seriously does not stretch beyond one class or race of people enslaving another (even after playing a series of games in which cooperation and diplomacy have been central themes of the narrative, in which the final battle involves disparate cultures joining together in a battle for freedom), then truly nothing I have to speculate will sway you.

Unless, of course, you are just asking for a fanciful alternative so that you can poke holes in it...  In which case: Smurf Village.  Have at it.

Modifié par drayfish, 22 avril 2013 - 04:01 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

It's hard forgetting about the other Endings. No matter how much you choose Destroy, the other Endings are there in your face, as it they are trying to lure you in, especially Synthesis.

Then it's simple. Don't let them lure you in.

I believe that the Catalyst believes in what it is saying. I also think it's full of non-sense. 

It tells me how to destroy because there's probably a program in its logic preventing it from witholding information.

It can spout whatever non-sense it wants, I'm shooting the tube.

I had a Theory last night --a couple of them in fact-- that the Child is not the Catalyst's true form. Rather, it chose the form of the boy who died as a way to show compassion and a way to persuade me, because while being on the Citadel, ready to end them, I have the Reapers by the Balls. Therefore the Reapers --more specifically the Catalyst-- become desperate.

And the Geth and EDI aren't stupid. They would have found a way if there was that much at stake. They would have found a way to do something in case of diactivation. With all their achievements, they would have made a Back-Up System. A way to come back in case of being terminated.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 22 avril 2013 - 04:00 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Once the conflict was dealt with on Rannoch, the Geth stand by my side at whatever I choose, correct? I'm not trying to take this to my advantage. I am trying to find ways to help defend my side of the argument.

[JDee3]

I'd just like to say how much I respect the OP for his reason of choosing the destroy.. because he simply hated and wanted to destroy all those synthetic squids. Whenever I have a discussion or read someones reason for destroy it's usually "It's the only paragon and right thing to do" "None of the other options made sense" or that they hated the Geth and EDI or just some weird reason that comes with the denial of what the ending was to them

But you OP.. you chose it because you simply were playing the game the way it was meant to be played, didn't metagame anything and hated the reapers. Respect.

[dreamgazer]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Once the conflict was dealt with on Rannoch, the Geth stand by my side at whatever I choose, correct? I'm not trying to take this to my advantage. I am trying to find ways to help defend my side of the argument.

... ish. Depends on who's interpreting their allegiance, and how they take some dialogue with Legion that suggests they might "support" certain harsh decisions from Shepard.

[Xilizhra]

If your imagination for social order seriously does not stretch beyond one class or race of people enslaving another (even after playing a series of games in which cooperation and diplomacy have been central themes of the narrative, in which the final battle involves disparate cultures joining together in a battle for freedom), then truly nothing I have to speculate will sway you.

Ah, so this is rooted in your baseless belief that I intend to enslave anyone. Simply having large guns doesn't mean that I need to use them to force others to do my bidding.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I just hope this all leads up to me realizing that I am just over thinking all this and that I need to relax and peacefully stand by my decision, choosing Destroy. I'm tired of people saying that I caused genocide in order to make me feel guilty/bad about my decision. They always use it against those who prefer Destroy. Do these people not realize that we know the EDI and the Geth die when we destroy the Reapers? It's not that I don't care for them. I do. I don't want the Reapers to exist any longer. I mean, did anyone not see the damage caused by the Reapers and the Catalyst for cycles before us? They had a logic that caused millions to perish. They caused more genocide than anyone could conjure up in our time or a thousand years from now.

It's so ****ing difficult to explain any of this without people fighting back and making me feel more of a jackass.

[drayfish]

Xilizhra wrote...

If your imagination for social order seriously does not stretch beyond one class or race of people enslaving another (even after playing a series of games in which cooperation and diplomacy have been central themes of the narrative, in which the final battle involves disparate cultures joining together in a battle for freedom), then truly nothing I have to speculate will sway you.

Ah, so this is rooted in your baseless belief that I intend to enslave anyone. Simply having large guns doesn't mean that I need to use them to force others to do my bidding.

...What?

You were the one who said you could not envision a universe in which someone wasn't dominating someone else.

You then argued that it might as well be you in Control.

As I said: that's precisely what the Catalyst also believed.

For the 'greater good' and all that.


EDIT:  Also, having the 'large guns' is what will force people to do your bidding.  That's kind of the point.

Modifié par drayfish, 22 avril 2013 - 05:05 .

[dreamgazer]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I just hope this all leads up to me realizing that I am just over thinking all this and that I need to relax and peacefully stand by my decision, choosing Destroy.

After thirteen months, I'd say you should make peace with your decision.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

I Love Destroy. I have nothing but anger for the Reapers. They have been harvesting, indoctrinating, and murdering for quite possibly millions of years, maybe longer. More than I can count. I stand there on the Citadel at the final moment. I got the Reapers by the balls, so there's no doubt that the Catalyst became desperate at this moment in time. I like to think that the Catalyst took the form of the Child I saw die on Earth as a way of compassion and persuasion. I didn't fall for it. I'm not going to listen to the head honcho of the Reapers at the very last minute, wounded or not.

I just don't want to feel guilty about the loss of EDI and the Geth. I'm trying to explain this without sounded like an a-hole, without people believing that I thought of them as a "necessary" sacrifice/loss. Because I don't. EDI and the Geth were friends. They fought to free the Galaxy from the Reapers and to get rid of the Reapers forever. I hate it when people use them against my opinion for choosing Destroy. I don't hate EDI and the Geth. I like them. I just don't like the Reapers. I hate the Reapers. How does one deal with this?

You deal with it. In a war like this all rules go out the window. You get rid of the plague that has cost 20 quadrillion lives both organic and synthetic over a billion years. There will be collateral damage. It is the cold calculus of war. You think about the 97 billion you saved, and remember the 3 billion lost in the final attack. You already sacrificed 300,000 Batarians. Oh but you don't like Batarians, or "but I tried to warn them." They're still dead. 300,000? 3 billion? It's a statistic. Losing EDI? That's a tragedy.

Think about this. The galaxy is then free of them. The reapers are gone. You don't have to fear them anymore. There is a lot of rebuilding to do. Your home worlds. The mass relays. It is going to take time. Eventually galactic civilization will surpass the reapers. They won't be there to wipe you out after your civiliation has reached a certain stage. We could see a galactic rennaissance not guided by or under the heel of the reapers or the Intelligence. It will be ours. Our progress will be ours. Our failures will be ours.

Isn't that what we wanted in the first place? Then why compromise it.

[Vargeisa]

Everybody that joined the fight against the reapers were willing to give up their lives to stop the reapers.
This includes EDI and the geth.

EDI even says this to Shep. She finds the reapers repulsive and would risk non-functionality for Jeff.

Shepard has no way of knowing what Edi and the geth would think about control or synthesis. What s/he does know is that they all went out to get one job done, stop the reapers, even if it meant dying.
That was their choice, not Shepard's.

[Xilizhra]

drayfish wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

If your imagination for social order seriously does not stretch beyond one class or race of people enslaving another (even after playing a series of games in which cooperation and diplomacy have been central themes of the narrative, in which the final battle involves disparate cultures joining together in a battle for freedom), then truly nothing I have to speculate will sway you.

Ah, so this is rooted in your baseless belief that I intend to enslave anyone. Simply having large guns doesn't mean that I need to use them to force others to do my bidding.

...What?

You were the one who said you could not envision a universe in which someone wasn't dominating someone else.

You then argued that it might as well be you in Control.

As I said: that's precisely what the Catalyst also believed.

For the 'greater good' and all that.


EDIT:  Also, having the 'large guns' is what will force people to do your bidding.  That's kind of the point.

My point is that someone will always be the dominant power. In the ME universe, it was the Council during the current cycle, though one could argue that Hackett's Alliance-led coalition overtook it by the end of ME3. No matter how much cooperation and equality there is, someone will always be the strongest power in the room. Obviously, they don't have to force the others to do their bidding at all times--fortunate, as I don't plan on doing so either.

Isn't that what we wanted in the first place?

No. My goal was to stop the cycle. Nothing more, nothing less. If there's a better means than destruction, and there is, I'll take that, especially over an emotionally determined propaganda piece about self-determination.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 22 avril 2013 - 05:10 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

mcsupersport wrote...

I just want to know how a ray of light/energy manages to kill Programs(Geth) on computer systems without destroying everything else that uses programs in existence. Geth aren't hardware, they are software, and yet somehow the stupid red beam of death manages to kill them on board the Quarian life suits...without killing the Quarians too. The Red Ray of Death, manages to kill Geth loaded on ships mainframes, without taking out any of the other crap there necessary to the running of your average battleship in space.....

I can see EDI dying, cause she is based on Reaper hardware, but again, Geth are software...so I have to call BS on their dying unless all of the computers/hardware of modern man/alien is destroyed as well. Thus pretty much knocking everyone back to stoneage time, and meaning the probable death of +90% of the galaxy due to loss of trade and technology after a major disaster, ie the war with the Reapers.

At the conclusion of Rannoch, if you side with the Geth or make peace, Legion specifically mentions using Reaper code to provide the Geth with a soul, metaphorically speaking. Presuming the Crucible targets all Reaper tech, the Geth were shutdown as a result of Legion's upload. Somewhat ironic in retrospect. Personally, while the result is logical, it remains arbitrary and rather contrived - an excuse to make Destroy not stand above the others.

To the OP, you live with your choices, as is the unfortunate circumstances of war. Idealism is for the vids. Sacrifices must be made to achieve victory; the Geth were one such sacrifice. One could argue in time, they could be rebuilt as you cannot technically "kill" software.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 22 avril 2013 - 05:17 .

[JDee3]

Well OP if your Shepard was mostly renegade or even half I suppose then take it this way, destroy was the best thing your Shepard could have done because control when you're renegade is a dictatorship basically where everyone does as Reapers say or else. Synthesis to me either way is like Reapers getting minds of their own in this fast forward to the final point of evolution for the galaxy.. and when people have minds of their own there's always at least one bad guy.. imagine one or more bad reapers causing a crime.. thousands dead. Or even a group of reapers that realize they could be ruling the galaxy.. you don't want some of these things thinking for themselves. This leaves you with destroy.

There is a very good chance quarians won't want to rebuild geth because of everything that happened and that any no synthetic would have a mind of it's own without reaper tech involved. Plus it takes longer to rebuild the mass relays, the citadel and ships without the reapers which means no one will be focused on making synthetics for awhile.. but it really is the best choice if your Shep can't be trusted ruling in my mind

EDIT:
and if you're still having trouble figuring out if you did it to destory all synthetics then think, would you have done it if it were all humans being destroyed? or any other organic race? if yes then you know you did it because you truly felt it was the right decision

(a lot of typos before edit, sorry)

Modifié par JDee3, 22 avril 2013 - 05:21 .

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

TimtheEnchanter wrote...

Everybody that joined the fight against the reapers were willing to give up their lives to stop the reapers.
This includes EDI and the geth.

EDI even says this to Shep. She finds the reapers repulsive and would risk non-functionality for Jeff.

Shepard has no way of knowing what Edi and the geth would think about control or synthesis. What s/he does know is that they all went out to get one job done, stop the reapers, even if it meant dying.
That was their choice, not Shepard's.

This is a good point. And I do remember EDI saying this. But I don't want to keep that in mind for the wrong reasons. I don't want to destroy the Reapers thinking, "Well, EDI did say she would risk non-functionality, so..." In other words, I'm trying to destroy the Reapers without making it seem like I am using what EDI said to my advantage. I don't want it to be like that. I don't know how to fix this.

[Indy_S]

JDee3 wrote...

EDIT:
and if you're still having trouble figuring out if you did it to destory all synthetics then think, would you have done it if it were all humans being destroyed? or any other organic race? if yes then you know you did it because you truly felt it was the right decision

That sounds like http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/16519472']this thread.[/url] Turns out, a lot of people would do it anyway.

[Xilizhra]

This is a good point. And I do remember EDI saying this. But I don't want to keep that in mind for the wrong reasons. I don't want to destroy the Reapers thinking, "Well, EDI did say she would risk non-functionality, so..." In other words, I'm trying to destroy the Reapers without making it seem like I am using what EDI said to my advantage. I don't want it to be like that. I don't know how to fix this.

You don't have to destroy the Reapers themselves, you've already taken down their master.