464 réponses à ce sujet

[Tallgeese_VII]

mandalorian sun wrote...

Alright, i have to defend my smashguard in a long winded post, because geth scanner changed his game like no other.
I would first like to say that i loved the pre-nerf smashguard, his rhythm was deadly and effective. The nerf was no joke, it really put him in some uncool situations waiting for cooldown.
Now, the combat guide to smashguard:
Smash: biotic goo, recharge speed, armor/barrier damage
lash: skip
charge:multiple targets, power damage, barrier recharge
Passives for maximum defense and power damage

The advantages of geth scanner on smash are no joke, Since smash does high damage to all defenses, and particularly higher to armor/barrier, while also sending health units into the sky, it allows you to clear a whole cluster of enemies before they've ever laid eyes on you.

Smash is a power that you must learn to use in a disciplined fashion. Biotic charge to heavy melee should be relied on more often for mook removal. I recommend also a Talon if you have it. Smash has the benefit of both detonating and priming targets for biotic explosion, and self-detonating while gaining the power damage bonus for your next smash is extremely effective.

With effective use of backroll smash-cancelling, you can smash banshee's and other deadly units while staying out of melee range. Units such as phantoms will still get covered in biotic goo even if they put up the hand barrier, so you can charge them after the smash and they will eat a biotic explosion, which destroys their barrier with the added damage from charge. Heavy melee immediately out of the charge to knock the phantom to the ground, or at least remove the last of the barrier, which allows a second charge to nearly finish her. Also a phantom on the other side of a wall doesn't see your smash, so she usually won't block it, immediately removing all her barrier and priming her.

If you follow these instructions, and don't forget to use geth scanner and full equipment, you can feel the might of one of my top three favorite classes to play

People who find Smash uncomfortable will always stay uncomfortable with it.
It`s OK to let them use other Vanguards. Vanguards are all generally rare now a day anyway.

[cowwy]

DHKany wrote...

6 uses and you're done.
And if you find yourself Ina sticky situation you might burn through more than 2 within a few seconds.

Seriously? If it takes more than 3 grenades to deal with any situation you're doing it horribly horribly wrong.

[Ryuji2]

doozerdude wrote...

Nu u=]

Biotic Charge: Same
2nd ability(Lash/Shockwave): Advantage Phoenix, doesn't really matter though, who specs into those on either kit?
3rd power(Nova/Smash): Advantage Phoenix
Passives: Advantage Phoenix
Fitness: Advantage Phoenix

Like for srsly bro, L2Smash:police:

...?

Charge is the same. Passives are the same except for 6A evo. Fitness is the same. Shockwave/Lash aren't really necessary but personally I prefer Lash over Shockwave.

Anywho, a properly played Novaguard vs. a properly played Smashguard will end up with the Novaguard being infinitely more useful over the other. Smash does not even compare to Nova. Nova has the ability to give you nigh invincibility due to Nova-cancelling in addition to probably being the best detonating power in the game(for biotics mainly but works with tech too).

Good group scenario:

You get a squad of 4 people, a Novaguard and 3 primers for anything, be it tech or biotic and have a good Novaguard follow them around. Watch things die due to the detonating power of said Novaguard while also watching said Novaguard properly Nova-cancel his way to victory.

Smashguard's...Smash hits like a truck and can prime/detonate, true. but in the same scenario, the Novaguard would run circles around him regarding detonations.

Edit for clarity...possibly.

Modifié par Ryuji2, 24 avril 2013 - 04:37 .

[Ziegrif]

Tallgeese_VII wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

 
DATA!

From here -> http://social.biowar...ndex/16562238/1

That`s not data...
It`s just pool of oponions of portion of the players of ME3 MP.

Meaning data. Data from an opinion questionnare is still data and as this thread is about our opinions on Vanguards that makes it relevant data.

[godlike13]

Who else would have loved a Vanguard with Inferno grenades?

[valium]

duuuuuuuuuuuude, giving MP the option of a bonus power?

do want.

[RaXelliX]

From best to worst this is my take on vanguards:

Krogan - Like a true vanguard should be. Badass motherf*cker who has tons of health and shields to get in enemies face and shoot it with a shotgun.
Asari - Awesome synergy. Wheter you go lift grenage+charge or stasis+charge you cant go wrong. Shes great although a little flimsy.
Phoenix - Again awesome synergy. Charge+smash is awsome. Or stay behind cover and acolyte+smash everything. Again bit flimsly but ive seen people solo platinum with him.
Batarian - Suprisingly good. Second strongest vanguard in terms of health/barrier i believe. Lash is pretty useless tho so its best to skip that and go with blade armor.
Volus - Shield boost. Shield boost everywhere. Very underrated vanguard. Yes extremely flimsy but pretty good when played right.
Slayer - Not very useful. His melee should be stronger.
Drell - Wheter you spec into cluster grenades or pull hes still pretty generic. Neither build really works.
Human - Novaguard yeah. Fun to play. Not so fun to die on Gold+
Cabal - Worst. Vanguard. Ever. Every other vanguard has a charge that restores their shields but not this one. Poison Strike DoT is useless on platinum. Avoid if all possible.

[godlike13]

Bwhaha the Slayer is not very useful, the Drell is generic, and the the Volus is underrated. Ur funny man.

[RaXelliX]

LineHolder wrote...

I really don't know what weapons to put on a Vanguard. Pistols are too weak and even though I hate the Acolyte, I have to bring it out to deal with Banshees and Phantoms and Praetorians. Shotguns limit me to close range fights which isn't good for squishy Vanguards and Assault Rifles? Well, they take too long to take down anything apart from the Harrier which needs constant ammo box trips.

SMGs I have so far are useless. Tempest V could be useful but meh ...

Depends on the character but generally you cant go wrong with acolyte+reegar combo. Acolyte for range. Reegar for close quarters. If you want a shotgun that has both damage and range you can go with Piranha. Or if you want shotgun desguised as a sniper rifle go with Crusader. Pistols such as carniflex,pladin or suppressor can be good on asari if you use stasis build. Best avoid SR-s and AR-s tho. In terms of SMG-s the Hurricane and Collector SMG are the best (the higher level the better).

[godlike13]

LineHolder wrote...

I really don't know what weapons to put on a Vanguard. Pistols are too weak and even though I hate the Acolyte, I have to bring it out to deal with Banshees and Phantoms and Praetorians. Shotguns limit me to close range fights which isn't good for squishy Vanguards and Assault Rifles? Well, they take too long to take down anything apart from the Harrier which needs constant ammo box trips.

SMGs I have so far are useless. Tempest V could be useful but meh ...

Don't underestimate the range of Shotguns. U can snipe mid range with a number of them. Like with the Wraith for example, or the Talon. Though technically the Talon's a pistol.

Personally though i rock the Raider on a number of my Vanguards. Who says lose close range fights aren't good 

RaXelliX wrote...
Depends on the character but generally you cant go wrong with acolyte+reegar combo. Acolyte for range. Reegar for close quarters. If you want a shotgun that has both damage and range you can go with Piranha. Or if you want shotgun desguised as a sniper rifle go with Crusader. Pistols such as carniflex,pladin or suppressor can be good on asari if you use stasis build. Best avoid SR-s and AR-s tho. In terms of SMG-s the Hurricane and Collector SMG are the best (the higher level the better).

Piranha has range?

Modifié par godlike13, 24 avril 2013 - 06:04 .

[RaXelliX]

godlike13 wrote...

Bwhaha the Slayer is not very useful, the Drell is generic, and the the Volus is underrated. Ur funny man.

And when was the last time you actually played with these characters?
I played just last week and finished 200 waves with the Drell just yesterday. So im not making stuff up here.

godlike13 wrote...

RaXelliX wrote...
Depends on the character but generally you cant go wrong with acolyte+reegar combo. Acolyte for range. Reegar for close quarters. If you want a shotgun that has both damage and range you can go with Piranha. Or if you want shotgun desguised as a sniper rifle go with Crusader. Pistols such as carniflex,pladin or suppressor can be good on asari if you use stasis build. Best avoid SR-s and AR-s tho. In terms of SMG-s the Hurricane and Collector SMG are the best (the higher level the better).

Piranha has range?

What rock have you been living under?
Ofcourse piranha has range. Moreso on some characters then others.

[soulstriker09]

LineHolder wrote...

I really don't know what weapons to put on a Vanguard. Pistols are too weak and even though I hate the Acolyte, I have to bring it out to deal with Banshees and Phantoms and Praetorians. Shotguns limit me to close range fights which isn't good for squishy Vanguards and Assault Rifles? Well, they take too long to take down anything apart from the Harrier which needs constant ammo box trips.

Anything light, you should be relying mostly on your powers anyway.
I'd say pistols... but I don't know what you have.
Shotguns are OK since you should be in close range, biotic charging... Don't take the heavy ones though.

[godlike13]

RaXelliX wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Bwhaha the Slayer is not very useful, the Drell is generic, and the the Volus is underrated. Ur funny man.

And when was the last time you actually played with these characters?
I played just last week and finished 200 waves with the Drell just yesterday. So im not making stuff up here.

I play the Slayer all the time, he's not a good melee kit, but PD is ridiculous. He's one of the most effective Vanguards.

I don't play the Drell very much, but even so i have played him, and he's no more generic then the Asari. His powers synergize just as much as hers. The last thing i'd call him is generic. He probably has one of the highest learning curves.

I have repeatedly tried to make the Volus work, but he probably has the worst synergy out of all of them, and his damage out put is laughable. Sure i can slap the Reegar on him and spam Shield Boost, but that don't make him good. That just shows how good the reegar is.

RaXelliX wrote...

Depends on the character but generally you cant go wrong with acolyte+reegar combo. Acolyte for range. Reegar for close quarters. If you want a shotgun that has both damage and range you can go with Piranha. Or if you want shotgun desguised as a sniper rifle go with Crusader. Pistols such as carniflex,pladin or suppressor can be good on asari if you use stasis build. Best avoid SR-s and AR-s tho. In terms of SMG-s the Hurricane and Collector SMG are the best (the higher level the better).

godlike13 wrote...
Piranha has range?

RaXelliX wrote...
What rock have you been living under?
Ofcourse piranha has range. Moreso on some characters then others.

Piranha has the worst range out of almost any gun beside the Reegar and the Raider. Some characters can expand its range, but non of the Vanguards are those characters.

Modifié par godlike13, 24 avril 2013 - 11:35 .

[Ryuji2]

RaXelliX wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Bwhaha the Slayer is not very useful, the Drell is generic, and the the Volus is underrated. Ur funny man.

And when was the last time you actually played with these characters? I played just last week and finished 200 waves with the Drell just yesterday. So im not making stuff up here.

'Cause you don't have them spec'd to get the most out of them.

Slayer: http://narida.pytalh...yer/RMAPR//////

Phase Disruptor is infinitely more useful than Biotic Slash. It's like a ranged Nova except without the invincibility frames and ability to detonate biotic primers. Sport an Acolye pistol and something else if you so choose but Acolyte alone can be all you need. Charge, PD spam, repeat. Right hand advantage it if you don't feel like charging into a dangerous spot. Being able to jump through walls/elevations and usage of the extremely high DR light melee gives are also incredibly useful.

Drell: http://narida.pytalh...ell/PAKDR//////

The 3 points in passives are personal preference. I personally picked 4A, 5A, 6B and am sporting a lolreegar. Might respec him for headshot stuff though and change weapons. Always go adrenaline mod III of course.

Gear option could be geth scanner if you wanna wallhack for slayer or grenade capacity for drell, standard stuff.

Modifié par Ryuji2, 24 avril 2013 - 06:50 .

[David_Lobster]

RaXelliX wrote...
Slayer - Not very useful. His melee should be stronger.
Drell - Wheter you spec into cluster grenades or pull hes still pretty generic. Neither build really works.
Human - Novaguard yeah. Fun to play. Not so fun to die on Gold+
Cabal - Worst. Vanguard. Ever. Every other vanguard has a charge that restores their shields but not this one. Poison Strike DoT is useless on platinum. Avoid if all possible.

Not sure if trollololling or just needs to l2play...

[soulstriker09]

RaXelliX wrote...

From best to worst this is my take on vanguards:

Krogan - Like a true vanguard should be. Badass motherf*cker who has tons of health and shields to get in enemies face and shoot it with a shotgun.
Asari - Awesome synergy. Wheter you go lift grenage+charge or stasis+charge you cant go wrong. Shes great although a little flimsy.
Phoenix - Again awesome synergy. Charge+smash is awsome. Or stay behind cover and acolyte+smash everything. Again bit flimsly but ive seen people solo platinum with him.
Batarian - Suprisingly good. Second strongest vanguard in terms of health/barrier i believe. Lash is pretty useless tho so its best to skip that and go with blade armor.
Volus - Shield boost. Shield boost everywhere. Very underrated vanguard. Yes extremely flimsy but pretty good when played right.
Slayer - Not very useful. His melee should be stronger.
Drell - Wheter you spec into cluster grenades or pull hes still pretty generic. Neither build really works.
Human - Novaguard yeah. Fun to play. Not so fun to die on Gold+
Cabal - Worst. Vanguard. Ever. Every other vanguard has a charge that restores their shields but not this one. Poison Strike DoT is useless on platinum. Avoid if all possible.

Hnnnnnng... agree with some of this but...

Batarian - I'll just link this...
Slayer - You shouldn't even bother melee-ing... Time spent melee-ing is time wasted not Phase Disrupting and ultimately killing stuff. If you do melee, you should be light-meleeing and abusing the DR.
Drell - there's a reason there are drellgod worshippers here on BSN. Haven't played him much though so it won't be me telling you how :T
Human - Have to play smart. Have to know how to nova cancel. Nova is one of the best detonators out there.
Cabal - You should be on-host. Melee build was really bad off-host for me. Shields not restoring shouldn't be a problem if you've got the best dodge ingame. PS has buggy damage mechanics so I just use it for mobility. Here's another link.

[KalilKareem]

Volus. Easily. The ex-cerberus and cabal vanguards can both be played very effectively, but I have NEVER seen a volus vangaurd do anything but fail utterly and miserably on gold/platinum.

[RaXelliX]

David_Lobster wrote...

RaXelliX wrote...
Slayer - Not very useful. His melee should be stronger.
Drell - Wheter you spec into cluster grenades or pull hes still pretty generic. Neither build really works.
Human - Novaguard yeah. Fun to play. Not so fun to die on Gold+
Cabal - Worst. Vanguard. Ever. Every other vanguard has a charge that restores their shields but not this one. Poison Strike DoT is useless on platinum. Avoid if all possible.

Not sure if trollololling or just needs to l2play...

Youre saying that to a player whos played this MP over 800 hours. I have no need to troll someone or spread lies. All of these impressions are from my own experience from playing with all those kits. Ultimately i agree that there are better vanguards and the not so good ones. In the end it all depends on the player and how well they are able to make those kits work on higher difficulties. I play Platinum almost exclusively so yes i might be a little biased in terms of what can be considered a useful power or character.

[soulstriker09]

RaXelliX wrote...
I play Platinum almost exclusively so yes i might be a little biased in terms of what can be considered a useful power or character.

But you specced for biotic slash over Phase disruptor... and Stasis over Lift nades... and fitness in your volus vanguard...

Unless you like dem gimped builds? 

[David_Lobster]

RaXelliX wrote...
Youre saying that to a player whos played this MP over 800 hours. I have no need to troll someone or spread lies. All of these impressions are from my own experience from playing with all those kits. Ultimately i agree that there are better vanguards and the not so good ones. In the end it all depends on the player and how well they are able to make those kits work on higher difficulties. I play Platinum almost exclusively so yes i might be a little biased in terms of what can be considered a useful power or character.

Even this doesn't make sense. How can you say the Asari has awesome synergy while calling the Drell generic? The (optimal) playstyle for these two kits is the same.

As an aside, those four kits are some of my favorites and I regularly take them into gold PUGs, and ocasionally use the Drell in platinum. Your descriptions simply don't indicate any particular familiarity with their strengths.

[billy the squid]

Ryuji2 wrote...

RaXelliX wrote...

godlike13 wrote...

Bwhaha the Slayer is not very useful, the Drell is generic, and the the Volus is underrated. Ur funny man.

And when was the last time you actually played with these characters? I played just last week and finished 200 waves with the Drell just yesterday. So im not making stuff up here.

'Cause you don't have them spec'd to get the most out of them.

Slayer: http://narida.pytalh...yer/RMAPR//////

Phase Disruptor is infinitely more useful than Biotic Slash. It's like a ranged Nova except without the invincibility frames and ability to detonate biotic primers. Sport an Acolye pistol and something else if you so choose but Acolyte alone can be all you need. Charge, PD spam, repeat. Right hand advantage it if you don't feel like charging into a dangerous spot. Being able to jump through walls/elevations and usage of the extremely high DR light melee gives are also incredibly useful.

Use Mega's build for the Slayer it's awesome. I did a quick Pug gold run vs an AIU with a Claymore X and my Slayer was still untouchable with 60k more than her in first place with over 160k.

PD is great I agree, especially after the buff, but biotic slash really should be specced into, not spammed. It's got decent range, detonates, staggers, and is a good power to use when you don't want to leave a hack to replenish barriers due to PD use.

Use.

BC: Radius, Power synergy, Barrier
PD: Damage, Efficient blast, Armour Damage
BS: Damage, Detonate, Damage
N7 Slayer: Damage and capacity, Power damage
Fitness: 3 ranks

Effectively you can bounce around like a ninja. BC, backwards dodge out of melee range PD, BC again, dodge from one side or behind cover or BS through a wall, dodge back out again. ( because when you can teleport walking out is not how it's done ) It gives you far more options.

I know Mega uses geth scanner, but I'm still a noob so I use Shield power cells gear or Stronghold because I need the recharge speed increase for my barriers at the moment.

[RaXelliX]

soulstriker09 wrote...

RaXelliX wrote...
I play Platinum almost exclusively so yes i might be a little biased in terms of what can be considered a useful power or character.

But you specced for biotic slash over Phase disruptor... and Stasis over Lift nades... and fitness in your volus vanguard...

Unless you like dem gimped builds? {smilie}

I find biotic slash useful but since i didnt want to skip fitness i didnt spec into PD. I mean yes i could have speeced 3 into fitness and rest into PD but then neither would have been really useful.

Like i said before about the asari- both statis and greande builds are ok. You cant go wrong with either. That is also the reason why imho she has a great power synergy. You can stasis>BC and geth a biotic explosion (atleast thats what it sounds like). My point is that each power can be used separately to a great effect. And on Cerberus platinum when theres 3 phantoms hunting you youll learn to appreciate a stasis build pretty quickly.

On volus: since hes so weak and youll be charging things close range then every bit of health and barrier helps.

David_Lobster wrote...

RaXelliX wrote...
Youre saying that to a player whos played this MP over 800 hours. I have no need to troll someone or spread lies. All of these impressions are from my own experience from playing with all those kits. Ultimately i agree that there are better vanguards and the not so good ones. In the end it all depends on the player and how well they are able to make those kits work on higher difficulties. I play Platinum almost exclusively so yes i might be a little biased in terms of what can be considered a useful power or character.

Even this doesn't make sense. How can you say the Asari has awesome synergy while calling the Drell generic? The (optimal) playstyle for these two kits is the same.

As an aside, those four kits are some of my favorites and I regularly take them into gold PUGs, and ocasionally use the Drell in platinum. Your descriptions simply don't indicate any particular familiarity with their strengths.

Drell is generic because besides BC Pull is extremely situational. Often borderline useless because pretty much everything is shielded on platinum. If he had lash instead (able to pull shielded oppanents) then it would be worth speccing into. Cluster grenades - theyre weak. Defenetly weaker than Lift grenades. essentially you have to throw them at point blank range to do any damage. I tried both builds during the 200 waves. Guess what i killed most often with cluster grenades? - swarmers. Nothing else. And i had specced into max damage on them too where possible. They occasionally staggered and atlas or prime but thats about it. Also their spread trajectory was often unpredictable once thrown. So character with very little health and barrier accompanied by two mediocre powers.

[billy the squid]

RaXelliX wrote...

soulstriker09 wrote...

RaXelliX wrote...
I play Platinum almost exclusively so yes i might be a little biased in terms of what can be considered a useful power or character.

But you specced for biotic slash over Phase disruptor... and Stasis over Lift nades... and fitness in your volus vanguard...

Unless you like dem gimped builds? {smilie}

I find biotic slash useful but since i didnt want to skip fitness i didnt spec into PD. I mean yes i could have speeced 3 into fitness and rest into PD but then neither would have been really useful.

Your Slayer build is weird. You've gimped yourself, it looks like a biotic slash spammer build.

On platinum and Gold most enemies are going to shield gate you anyway, so fitness is of debatable use, the BC is the number one way of getting those barriers back, due to the invinicibility frames and his dodge can get you out of harms way easily. 

Secondly, why weapon weight on the rank 6 passive? Like me most of your URs at a high lvl, which renders it redundant, unless you plan to carry about a Claymore and an Acolyte, at which point I'd ask why would you ever do that. A Hurricane, Talon, Wraith, Pirhanna even Raider are all good choices and keep the cooldown low.

PD won't be as effective, because you've used weapon synergy, over power synergy. And because you put 6 points into rank 6 passive weapon weight rather than armour damage if you had taken PD. 

You've also gone for radius, recharge speed and range on BS, rather than damage, detonate and damage.

That build, to me, screams biotic slash spamming, and you should feel bad for doing that! . So you aren't using the Slayer to his full potential, there's little wonder you don't think he's good. If you wanted a melee build you should be using all fitness passives in melee and a Talon with a melee stunner.

He's great as a power user, he's up there with the Drell and Asari easily and isn't dependent on grenades. And you can spec him as a melee kit as his light melee has huge DR. Or for new players forgoe biotic slash and go for PD, he's really flexible.

Modifié par billy the squid, 24 avril 2013 - 12:19 .

[WaffleCrab]

sobit wrote...

doozerdude wrote...

:(Phoenix is getting far too much hate...

Novagaurd? Squishy, no damage. [...]

stopped reading right f*cking there. learn to play.

my words give em back:pinched: