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So, what's the worst Vanguard in your opinion?


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#301
niripas

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KalilKareem wrote...

Volus. Easily. The ex-cerberus and cabal vanguards can both be played very effectively, but I have NEVER seen a volus vangaurd do anything but fail utterly and miserably on gold/platinum.


So try for yourself:
skip passives, in fitness go full melee build, wraith with blade, batarian gauntlet and you are doing 3k melee damage. I specced charge for 50% no cooldown chance, orbs for full recharge rate. You can still help teammates, kill mooks with one hatesurf and shoot whatever heavier is on the battlefield. And cloak.

#302
doozerdude

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DHKany wrote...

Not to mention that anthing that gives shields basically makes his PD never ending (glitchless Shield boost, exort missions etc.) 



That isn't synergy:blink:AIU Snap Freeze+N7 Shadow Slash work beautfully together. That does not mean the N7 Shadow has good synergy.

The Collector, Valkyrie, N7 Paladin, QME.. These are examples of kits that have great synergy.

The Slayer's synergy sucks. PD is a ranged attack, BC is CQC, so to get your infinite PD without help from teammates, you need to BC->backdodge... It's just awkward.

If he had PD+Shields Boost, THAT would be good synergy.

#303
mrcanada

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N33d F0r Sk1llZ wrote...

Cabal because she's chargeless and it's replacement(Poison Strike) sucks


No.

#304
Ryuji2

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billy the squid wrote...

Use Mega's build for the Slayer it's awesome. I did a quick Pug gold run vs an AIU with a Claymore X and my Slayer was still untouchable with 60k more than her in first place with over 160k.

PD is great I agree, especially after the buff, but biotic slash really should be specced into, not spammed. It's got decent range, detonates, staggers, and is a good power to use when you don't want to leave a hack to replenish barriers due to PD use.

Use.

BC: Radius, Power synergy, Barrier
PD: Damage, Efficient blast, Armour Damage
BS: Damage, Detonate, Damage
N7 Slayer: Damage and capacity, Power damage
Fitness: 3 ranks

Effectively you can bounce around like a ninja. BC, backwards dodge out of melee range PD, BC again, dodge from one side or behind cover or BS through a wall, dodge back out again. ( because when you can teleport walking out is not how it's done :P) It gives you far more options.

I know Mega uses geth scanner, but I'm still a noob so I use Shield power cells gear or Stronghold because I need the recharge speed increase for my barriers at the moment.


True, I could use this. Haven't really tested it. But Idunno. I used to have only 3 points in it just to have it but I still found myself  never really needing it since I'd always just right hand advantage spawns. I'll try it again though and see how it works...but then again I'm a bit of a reckless player so I feel gimped without the fitness. Maybe I need to L2P in that regard.:whistle:

#305
doozerdude

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Ryuji2 wrote...


Charge is the same. Passives are the same except for 6A evo. Fitness is the same. Shockwave/Lash aren't really necessary but personally I prefer Lash over Shockwave.

Smash does not even compare to Nova. Nova has the ability to give you nigh invincibility due to Nova-cancelling



Phoenix has 10% better power damage in his passive. He also has a 30% power damage bonus in his fitness.

As for Nova-cancelling, I consider this cheating. I am not against reload canceling, an exploit to give you a few split seconds fster firerate, but exploiting a glitch to make yourself invincible? Come on, that isn't nearly in the same league as a split second RoF increase.

Now I know tons of people love doing this, and by all means, go ahead and exploit the **** out of it. But a glitch does not make one power better than another.

Damage: HUGE Advantage Smash
Range: About the same
BEs: Advantage Smash, can prime as well as detonate, does not require teammate for BE
CD: Advantage Nova
Survivability: Advantage Smash
Wallhacks: Advantage Smash
Exploitability: Advantage Nova

Smash IV ___ Nova II

#306
David_Lobster

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RaXelliX wrote...
Drell is generic because besides BC Pull is extremely situational. Often borderline useless because pretty much everything is shielded on platinum. If he had lash instead (able to pull shielded oppanents) then it would be worth speccing into.


Absolutely, which is why you don't spec into pull (and you shouldn't spec more than 3 pitty levels into stasis on the Asari either, if that). Charge, get that power synergy boost, fire off some incendiary or disruptor rounds and chuck those grenades. The Drellguard is one of the best spawn nukers in the game, he can deal with trash mobs in seconds and take out bosses in a hurry as well.

Cluster grenades - theyre weak. Defenetly weaker than Lift grenades.
essentially you have to throw them at point blank range to do any
damage. I tried both builds during the 200 waves. Guess what i killed
most often with cluster grenades? - swarmers. Nothing else. And i had
specced into max damage on them too where possible. They occasionally
staggered and atlas or prime but thats about it. Also their spread
trajectory was often unpredictable once thrown. So character with very
little health and barrier accompanied by two mediocre powers.


Ha! I absolutely agree that they are short range grenades due to their spread (which is fine by me, vanguards in particular are CQC chars), but otherwise I'm just shaking my head in disbelief. The spread trajectory IS predictable, and the spread along with their bounciness are a feature, not a bug, learn how they work and then make them work for you.

Modifié par David_Lobster, 24 avril 2013 - 06:23 .


#307
doozerdude

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godlike13 wrote...

Who else would have loved a Vanguard with Inferno grenades?



Can you imagine... Batgaurd: BC, Blade Armor, Inferno Grenades...:blink::crying::o:O:wub:

Biowur plz

#308
Lauro Baptista

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I hate cabal. ¬¬"

#309
Ryuji2

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doozerdude wrote...


Phoenix has 10% better power damage in his passive. He also has a 30% power damage bonus in his fitness.

As for Nova-cancelling, I consider this cheating. I am not against reload canceling, an exploit to give you a few split seconds fster firerate, but exploiting a glitch to make yourself invincible? Come on, that isn't nearly in the same league as a split second RoF increase.

Now I know tons of people love doing this, and by all means, go ahead and exploit the **** out of it. But a glitch does not make one power better than another.

Damage: HUGE Advantage Smash
Range: About the same
BEs: Advantage Smash, can prime as well as detonate, does not require teammate for BE
CD: Advantage Nova
Survivability: Advantage Smash
Wallhacks: Advantage Smash
Exploitability: Advantage Nova

Smash IV ___ Nova II



I'm not gonna get into whether or not Nova-cancelling is an exploit or clever use of game mechanics but I will continue with the different points you listed, while considering Nova-cancelling to be part of it. You can't really ignore it. Well, you CAN but the benefits outweigh the question of whether or not its an exploit. My personal opinion though so...eh.

Damage: Smash does hit harder, yes. I will give you that. Solo, a smash will generally hit harder than a Nova. In a group setting it will also hit like a truck and detonate or prime either tech or biotic stuff(depends on rank 4 smash regarding priming)

Napkin math time.

Smash if given biotic charge power synergy, power damage in passives in addition to picking the hardest hitting route, 4A, 5A, 6A(will cover 5B in a moment) without any damage gear or consumables will do 3970.31 damage to armor/barriers and 2268.75 to shields. Does enough to health where they are basically dead, so, not gonna worry about that.

Nova, if given the same things but with the Nova route being 4B, 5B, 6A will lead to less damage done than Smash, yes. But even if you do not use Nova-cancelling, you have two uses of it and with a high enough cooldown you can charge right back in there and repeat it over and over for the most part.

In a solo scenario, Smash wins with damage. In a group scenario, it also wins with pure damage output if cooldown is possibly chosen for biotic/combos. The rate at which a Novaguard could detonate these in comparison to a low cooldown Smash tends to favor Nova however.  Half Blast adds up over the match, even if Smash's cooldown in 5B was taken.

Range: 8m on Smash vs. 6.6 on Nova if radius is taken. One doesn't require you to be in the thick of it(and can go through walls) but one does. So, basically the same, yes, though Nova's invincibility frames and ability to throw out two Novas with Half Blast adds up like I mentioned earlier.

Biotic/Tech combos: Smash can prime and detonate, true. In a solo setting, Smash wins a little here. In a group setting, Smash doesn't even come close. Novaguard does require others to prime, true, but the rate at which said Novaguard can detonate everything is possibly the best in the game. There's no other feeling greater than being in the thick of it and Nova spamming as you watch fire explosions and biotic combos detonate over and over because of said Nova spamming.

Cooldown: Long-story short, Nova wins due to not generating a cooldown in addition to having 2 available to use if chosen as such. The synergy with a short charge cooldown is a beautiful thing.

Survivability: I'm going to put wallhacks into this spot. If you're sporting the geth scanner on Smashguard, you will generally be safe, yes. In addition to hitting like a truck. Fair point there. But this is where the Nova-cancelling kicks in. If a Novaguard who is utilizing Nova in such a way to where he is basically invincible(and isn't cheapshot by Scions...dang plasma bullets<_<), he will be able to keep the group combos going.

HOWEVER, in a solo scenario, wallhacks with Smash win.

and yes, exploitability, Nova.

Solo advantages for Smash: 3 and possibly add 1/2 for range going sort of even with Nova.

Solo advantages for Nova: 1 1/2. Wins on cooldown.

Group advantages for Smash: 1 1/2 (two halves from damage output and range).

Group advantages for Nova: 3 1/2 (half being range). In a group setting with proper primers, he's a walking detonator.



TL;DR: So basically it kinda evens out. I'm not saying Smashguard is bad. I'm just saying don't underestimate the power of Nova in a group setting. B)

Modifié par Ryuji2, 24 avril 2013 - 07:00 .


#310
Deerber

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This thread keeps giving me cancer. And the bad thing is that I can't stop reading.

All the bull**** bsn comes up with... They're quite entertaining!

#311
NuclearTech76

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Volus. Easily.

Yes the Bat Gauntlets are entertaining but strictly novelty for the most part.

#312
doozerdude

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Ryuji2 wrote...

TL;DR: So basically it kinda evens out. I'm not saying Smashguard is bad. I'm just saying don't underestimate the power of Nova in a group setting. B)


Fair nuff=]

But the Smashgaurd got(is getting) way too much hate in this thread.:blush:

#313
billy the squid

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Ryuji2 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Use Mega's build for the Slayer it's awesome. I did a quick Pug gold run vs an AIU with a Claymore X and my Slayer was still untouchable with 60k more than her in first place with over 160k.

PD is great I agree, especially after the buff, but biotic slash really should be specced into, not spammed. It's got decent range, detonates, staggers, and is a good power to use when you don't want to leave a hack to replenish barriers due to PD use.

Use.

BC: Radius, Power synergy, Barrier
PD: Damage, Efficient blast, Armour Damage
BS: Damage, Detonate, Damage
N7 Slayer: Damage and capacity, Power damage
Fitness: 3 ranks

Effectively you can bounce around like a ninja. BC, backwards dodge out of melee range PD, BC again, dodge from one side or behind cover or BS through a wall, dodge back out again. ( because when you can teleport walking out is not how it's done :P) It gives you far more options.

I know Mega uses geth scanner, but I'm still a noob so I use Shield power cells gear or Stronghold because I need the recharge speed increase for my barriers at the moment.


True, I could use this. Haven't really tested it. But Idunno. I used to have only 3 points in it just to have it but I still found myself  never really needing it since I'd always just right hand advantage spawns. I'll try it again though and see how it works...but then again I'm a bit of a reckless player so I feel gimped without the fitness. Maybe I need to L2P in that regard.:whistle:


It favours very agressive, but smart play. You don't have the durability of a krogan, and hosting is required to maximise the benefits of the Slayer's awesome dodge abilities. 

The thing with PD is, if you're using it and you get hit, you'll be shield gated anyway, so the extra barriers really don't make much difference, at least on Gold and Platinum. And the points find a better home in BS which you can use for AOE to stagger and knock down enemies, or through cover if you don't want to expose yourself to fire. That's were Geth Scanner really helps, although personally I go with Multicapacitor gear V as I'm not quite there yet, and the cut down in shield recharge time I find helps, when you don't want to charge, but don't have barriers and need PD.

#314
Major Durza

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Hard to choose between the Pheonix and Volus. I've had rather good success with TKA's Smashguard build using a Wraith for dealing with everything but bosses. The Bowling Ball has shield boost, which is useful for tanking and helping teammates as well.
So sorta a draw between them. Played the Smashguard for a while, then played Drellguard, and holy crap the difference in damage outpu is just O.o

#315
Ryuji2

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billy the squid wrote...

It favours very agressive, but smart play. You don't have the durability of a krogan, and hosting is required to maximise the benefits of the Slayer's awesome dodge abilities. 

The thing with PD is, if you're using it and you get hit, you'll be shield gated anyway, so the extra barriers really don't make much difference, at least on Gold and Platinum. And the points find a better home in BS which you can use for AOE to stagger and knock down enemies, or through cover if you don't want to expose yourself to fire. That's were Geth Scanner really helps, although personally I go with Multicapacitor gear V as I'm not quite there yet, and the cut down in shield recharge time I find helps, when you don't want to charge, but don't have barriers and need PD.


Hmm. I'll try it next time I get a respec card...if I get a respec card. Been having a drought of those recently. But I can see the benefits since as you said, shields get nuked in platinum anyway.

#316
smeckie

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Cabal is just rubbish, she can't get her barrier back by charging and her charge only goes a few meters, which gets her in more trouble than its worth using. I have 2 more extractions using her and then I'll never use her again.

#317
Major Durza

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smeckie wrote...

Cabal is just rubbish, she can't get her barrier back by charging and her charge only goes a few meters, which gets her in more trouble than its worth using. I have 2 more extractions using her and then I'll never use her again.


Go PS-less.
Full Defensive Fitness, full weapon pasives.
Use vulnerability VI V, targeting VI III's
Equip Harrier, aim for the head, win

Use Nightshade Blades to stagger enemies, keep Biotic Focus up.

#318
The fool you should have eaten

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DHKany wrote...

LegionofRannoch wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Rants about volus 24/7 and how good they are when in reality only one of them is actually good.
Calls everybody impossible fools.


Seems legit.

you fool, we should eat you!


where is dat guy


Who?

#319
ToLazy4Name

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I'm not sticking in this thread, but just to reiterate, if anyone finds the Volus lacking, please look at the thread in my signature and try him again.

#320
Daxamite

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the vanguards which are bad for ME rather than being badly designed per se, are the ones i cant get to work on gold v well:

Asari, slayer, phoenix, and worst of all the cabal.

I havent tried volus vanguard yet, i love him on silver but i have serious doubts about whether i could contribute meaningfully on gold with him.

Modifié par PhoenixUK, 24 avril 2013 - 09:57 .


#321
Max Dmian

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ToLazy4Name wrote...

I'm not sticking in this thread, but just to reiterate, if anyone finds the Volus lacking, please look at the thread in my signature and try him again.


Yes, I did that. It was fun and I enjoy playing the Volus.
He's still the worst Vanguard.

#322
Grammaton Dryad

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smeckie wrote...

Cabal is just rubbish, she can't get her barrier back by charging and her charge only goes a few meters, which gets her in more trouble than its worth using. I have 2 more extractions using her and then I'll never use her again.


^scrub-n00b^ either an unskilled player, a new player, or an idiot.

Major Durza wrote...

smeckie wrote...

Cabal
is just rubbish, she can't get her barrier back by charging and her
charge only goes a few meters, which gets her in more trouble than its
worth using. I have 2 more extractions using her and then I'll never use
her again.


Go PS-less.
Full Defensive Fitness, full weapon pasives.
Use vulnerability VI V, targeting VI III's
Equip Harrier, aim for the head, win

Use Nightshade Blades to stagger enemies, keep Biotic Focus up.


^an appropriate build for a scrub, but I doubt they could intentionally get headshots being so scrubby^ (so good advice for that guy, but IMO a poor choice overall; PS is sooo good with just 3 or 4 ranks)

#323
StoxRegalia

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I tried TL4N's volguard build. It aint too bad.

#324
Grammaton Dryad

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Notorious P I G wrote...

I tried TL4N's volguard build. It aint too bad.


+1

Sure his space tu-tu has one less ball, but it's pretty legit.

#325
Major Durza

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 I find it odd that the Turian Havoc Soldier makes a better vanguard than the Turian Cabal Vanguard, yet the Cabal makes a better Soldier than the Havoc

:huh:<_<:mellow::?:whistle:

Modifié par Major Durza, 24 avril 2013 - 10:20 .