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[cowwy]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

cowwy wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

cowwy wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

You're being an idiot. 

@Cowwy: If any power that doesn't do damage is a support power, then is Hunter Mode a support power? Is Biotic Focus? Is Barrier? Repair Matrix? 

They are indeed. However those you just listed have more utility, like Repair Matrix also being horribly broken and giving essentially passive movement speed buffs and free medigel, Hunter Mode giving extraordinary damage buffs, Barrier is the only one you listed there that I would say is weaker than Shield Boost as it gives mediocre DR and the detonation is about equivalent to trying to fart an enemy to death.

However all the characters that have those powers have other powers that synergize well with them or at least give them some kind of significant damage boost in their power. Geth obviously get absurd damage bonuses with geth weaponry, Repair Matrix allows the AIU to close distance very rapidly and utilize her shotgun evo in tac cloak fully, and Biotic Focus gives a movement speed buff and a melee damage buff. The Bowlus has no real synergy, he's got Charge, which can slightly boost weapon damage, Shield Boost which heals and provides DR, and Biotic Orbs which can detonate and gives a recharge buff. If Biotic Orbs primed I would classify the Volus as a top tier vanguard but he can only detonate targets primed by other teammates.

So where is the synergy or what does he bring to the table that isn't done better by another vanguard? Tanking is hands down taken by the Kroguard, who's also a better lolreegar user, damage is covered by basically anyone other than the PV and Volus, so where does that leave the Volus?

Edit: I'm genuinely interested if you have something to set the Volus apart, because as it stands he's tied for my least used Vanguard with the PV and Cabal.

He's a Kroguard with better utility. He's only got 22.5% weapon damage, but he can turn invisible, and get his Barriers back without having to charge, as well as being able to heal others during Hacks/Escorts (which, admirttedly, can lock people up if you're not careful). Also, his Biotic Charge has a better cooldown than the Krogans, and he only lags behind a bit in terms of weapon damage. 

I will grant you that the difference in weapon damage between the two characters is negligible. However the disparity in tankiness is extremely significant. There's a reason why the Kroguard is regarded as cheese, and it isn't his stellar passives. It is his ability to take constant weapons fire without even flinching. The Volus has to make sure his shield boost is up before taking any fire otherwise he's dead.

And again, if that's all that sets the Volus apart then I'll just stick with other vanguards. I can't stand using the Kroguard either so why would I use a shorter, less mobile character when I can use a different vanguard?

At least the Volus engineer has something to set him apart, he's arguably the best debuff character in the game so it's worth using as it can amplify any weapons damage, but the Vanguard has no niche.

1. I still think the Volus is on par with the Kroguard for tankiness. He doesn't have to have Shield Boost up so long as he has both Cloak and Biotic Charge available. 

2. Why didn't you say that to begin with? If you'd have said "I don't like the Kroguard, and the Volus is similar to the Kroguard, so I don't like the Volus" at the start of this, I wouldn't have started arguing. That's a perfectly fine reason to not play him. 

1.) Not really because I believe 1 Scion blast will shield gate the Volus Vanguard (I think, numbers might be a little off)and then you have a measly 247 health to fall back on that gets 1 bursted by a Captain or whatever. The Kroguard can take at least 2 Scion blasts (might be 3, don't remember) before getting shield gated and then still has 1800 health to work with for CAR CXVII blasts from captains.

2.) I don't like him but it's not really relevant. I don't like the Slayer either but I can recognize his effectiveness. The Volus just seems to me to have no purpose. However after this discussion I am going to try out your build and setup and see if it changes my mind. I did the same when I got in the debate with someone about the effectiveness of the PV and it changed my mind slightly, so I'm open to anything. Though I'll probably have to take a shower afterwards because of the lolreegar.

[ASmoothCriminalx]

Complains about Dragoons wrecking Pubs... Names the player equivalent to be worthless.

BSN pls.

[ToLazy4Name]

cowwy wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

cowwy wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

cowwy wrote...

ToLazy4Name wrote...

You're being an idiot. 

@Cowwy: If any power that doesn't do damage is a support power, then is Hunter Mode a support power? Is Biotic Focus? Is Barrier? Repair Matrix? 

They are indeed. However those you just listed have more utility, like Repair Matrix also being horribly broken and giving essentially passive movement speed buffs and free medigel, Hunter Mode giving extraordinary damage buffs, Barrier is the only one you listed there that I would say is weaker than Shield Boost as it gives mediocre DR and the detonation is about equivalent to trying to fart an enemy to death.

However all the characters that have those powers have other powers that synergize well with them or at least give them some kind of significant damage boost in their power. Geth obviously get absurd damage bonuses with geth weaponry, Repair Matrix allows the AIU to close distance very rapidly and utilize her shotgun evo in tac cloak fully, and Biotic Focus gives a movement speed buff and a melee damage buff. The Bowlus has no real synergy, he's got Charge, which can slightly boost weapon damage, Shield Boost which heals and provides DR, and Biotic Orbs which can detonate and gives a recharge buff. If Biotic Orbs primed I would classify the Volus as a top tier vanguard but he can only detonate targets primed by other teammates.

So where is the synergy or what does he bring to the table that isn't done better by another vanguard? Tanking is hands down taken by the Kroguard, who's also a better lolreegar user, damage is covered by basically anyone other than the PV and Volus, so where does that leave the Volus?

Edit: I'm genuinely interested if you have something to set the Volus apart, because as it stands he's tied for my least used Vanguard with the PV and Cabal.

He's a Kroguard with better utility. He's only got 22.5% weapon damage, but he can turn invisible, and get his Barriers back without having to charge, as well as being able to heal others during Hacks/Escorts (which, admirttedly, can lock people up if you're not careful). Also, his Biotic Charge has a better cooldown than the Krogans, and he only lags behind a bit in terms of weapon damage. 

I will grant you that the difference in weapon damage between the two characters is negligible. However the disparity in tankiness is extremely significant. There's a reason why the Kroguard is regarded as cheese, and it isn't his stellar passives. It is his ability to take constant weapons fire without even flinching. The Volus has to make sure his shield boost is up before taking any fire otherwise he's dead.

And again, if that's all that sets the Volus apart then I'll just stick with other vanguards. I can't stand using the Kroguard either so why would I use a shorter, less mobile character when I can use a different vanguard?

At least the Volus engineer has something to set him apart, he's arguably the best debuff character in the game so it's worth using as it can amplify any weapons damage, but the Vanguard has no niche.

1. I still think the Volus is on par with the Kroguard for tankiness. He doesn't have to have Shield Boost up so long as he has both Cloak and Biotic Charge available. 

2. Why didn't you say that to begin with? If you'd have said "I don't like the Kroguard, and the Volus is similar to the Kroguard, so I don't like the Volus" at the start of this, I wouldn't have started arguing. That's a perfectly fine reason to not play him. 

1.) Not really because I believe 1 Scion blast will shield gate the Volus Vanguard (I think, numbers might be a little off)and then you have a measly 247 health to fall back on that gets 1 bursted by a Captain or whatever. The Kroguard can take at least 2 Scion blasts (might be 3, don't remember) before getting shield gated and then still has 1800 health to work with for CAR CXVII blasts from captains.

2.) I don't like him but it's not really relevant. I don't like the Slayer either but I can recognize his effectiveness. The Volus just seems to me to have no purpose. However after this discussion I am going to try out your build and setup and see if it changes my mind. I did the same when I got in the debate with someone about the effectiveness of the PV and it changed my mind slightly, so I'm open to anything. Though I'll probably have to take a shower afterwards because of the lolreegar.

And that's something I can respect. If you try my build and still hate it, then your opinion is now validated in my eyes (I know that doesn't matter to you or anyone, and nor should it, but you get my point).

[CardboredSquare]

Anyone who says the Phoenix Vanguard suck with him.
IMO the worst vanguard is the volus because he lacks that "high risk high reward" description. Can't play as aggressive as the other vanguards (not counting the Cabal).

[ToLazy4Name]

CardboredSquare wrote...

Anyone who says the Phoenix Vanguard suck with him.
IMO the worst vanguard is the volus because he lacks that "high risk high reward" description. Can't play as aggressive as the other vanguards (not counting the Cabal).

I'm not even gonna argue this on the thread. Click the link in my signature, go around and play the Volus aggressively. 

[Oni Changas]

To everyone who says Smash sucks or is slow, you can cancel the animation as soon as his arms raise. As I always say:he's got lots of options, be it rolling for a defrnsive strike or heavy melee for nuclear CC damage. Only the nade vanguards clear rooms like he can.

[Psycho Mantis I]

I would say the Phoenix vanguard. I already find the adept lackluster as it is.... but i'd rather have Singularity than Biotic Charge since smash takes forever to cast even if you can cancel the animation you still don't have DR.

Any of the vanguards are way better than the Smashguard imo.

[koschwarz74]

volus protector.

and my favorite ones: phoenix and slayer. phoenix as lack-luster? lash+BC = explosion. smash + BC = explosion. i have a build: all 3 powers maxed out, with full power damage, only 3 rank in fitness. it's a beast and PLATINUM worthy.

smash is one of my favorite power. with the right build, mods and gear it can damage 4000 against armor and barrier, 2300 against shield. and it's before the BC 40% power synergy...tell me a power that can damage this much.

and with the latest power damage weapon mods and the geth scanner i feel like i cheat.

so who says he sucks: YOU do it wrong.

Modifié par koschwarz74, 23 avril 2013 - 06:30 .

[BattleCop88]

I think the smashguard fulfills the unique boss-killer niche. If played right, like the Krolord, he can easily take down armored bosses, but the smash animation is too long without invulnerability frames.

[valium]

manguard, has anyone played it recently?

even on host it falls behind even the phoenix vanguard.

sad though, manguard used to be a fun kit, now it just feels lame.

[koschwarz74]

BattleCop88 wrote...

I think the smashguard fulfills the unique boss-killer niche. If played right, like the Krolord, he can easily take down armored bosses, but the smash animation is too long without invulnerability frames.

no, he is not only a boss-killer. ppl don't like lash and i don't understand why, but it's an excellent mook killer. lash and BC kills everything without armor, even phantoms (maybe 3 health bars remain, a weapon can deal with it).

using smash needs cover or distracted enemy.  you don't want to stand face to face enemies like marauders anyway.

[BattleCop88]

koschwarz74 wrote...

BattleCop88 wrote...

I think the smashguard fulfills the unique boss-killer niche. If played right, like the Krolord, he can easily take down armored bosses, but the smash animation is too long without invulnerability frames.

no, he is not only a boss-killer. ppl don't like lash and i don't understand why, but it's an excellent mook killer. lash and BC kills everything without armor, even phantoms (maybe 3 health bars remain, a weapon can deal with it).

using smash needs cover or distracted enemy.  you don't want to stand face to face enemies like marauders anyway.

Exactly. I just think boss killng is where the Smashguard is supposed to perform better than the other vanguards, as well as self-detonations.

[IVicViperI]

Tallgeese_VII wrote...

Cabal.
Imagine she has no grenade or really good weapon. Things become sad very quickly.

I built her grenade-less with a Claymore and still top scored a Turian Ghost wielding a Cerberus Harrier yesterday and who didn't die at all.

[joker_jack]

If you're new to the game, the drellguard sucks. The steepest learning curve for any vanguard. Most of the players that were good with the kit have moved onto other games for the most part. Very rare to see one in a lobby, and rarer if the player can play him well.

Excluding player skill, it's overall a toss between the Vanilla Vanguard and Volguard. My biggest problem with the volus is the constant glitch. Some kits simply don't work around shield boost without gimping. Also, way too weak for the style of game play vanguards are known for. Vanilla Vanguard Stills does use alittle more skill than just nova spam. Skill that people seem to forget about. Though funny to see someone charge a scion and get curb stomped to death.

[Amusingthree93]

Pyjak

[Deerber]

[Titus Thongger]

There're all really really good.

but I'd have to go with the Vangod if I had to choose. even if he is very funny.

[XPERIA_Z]

Volguard.

[sabreracer]

BlastoTheEnkindled wrote...

Nova vanguard, the host requirement is really annoying, expecially for those who can't...

Otherwise the cabal, she's too buggy and has crappy abilities.

I was playing him off host last night.  First time in a long time, I do forget how much fun he is to play.  Don't score as well as with the Asarigard but it was a complete laugh.

[Ziegrif]

Eh.

Whenever I base my build on a vanguard around biotic charge I die, no matter the difficulty, enemy, kit, map. I just die, because I suck at it.

But when I spec out of BC lo and behold I start getting results.

So Imma answer Biotic Charge is the worst Vanguard.

And now I'm going to run like hell.

[godlike13]

valium wrote...

manguard, has anyone played it recently?

even on host it falls behind even the phoenix vanguard.

sad though, manguard used to be a fun kit, now it just feels lame.

I do. I turned him into more of a shotgunner though, as power creep has kind of took the bite off Nova. Plus just spamming Nova gets boring. Nova is still great for the mass stagger, invulnerability frames, and detonating though.

While he's kind of been left behind, the Manguard is still not anywhere close to the worst.

Ziegrif wrote...

Eh.

Whenever I base my build on a vanguard around biotic charge I die, no matter the difficulty, enemy, kit, map. I just die, because I suck at it.

But when I spec out of BC lo and behold I start getting results.

So Imma answer Biotic Charge is the worst Vanguard.

And now I'm going to run like hell.

I get that actually. Biotic Charge can be incredibly frustrating, especially off host. Charging into enemy melee and what have u.

Modifié par godlike13, 23 avril 2013 - 12:05 .

[Ziegrif]

Air Quotes wrote...

YOU'LL NEVER CATCH ME SOBER! *Drinks 100 Bottles of Skooma*

[cgj]

volus... damage potential is non existent and even with his powers his survivability isn't better than other vanguards