336 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Auld Wulf wrote...


Synthesis was a culmination of everything that had come before it, of everything we'd seen and done, and in the end it presented us with a new potentiality; A symbolic dream of a far-flung future. What drives us is the want to understand and even realise ideas. The worst thing you could ever do is to want to dismiss or destroy an idea. Ideas are what we are.

The Reapers are an idea now?

They're genocidal war-machines that need to be annihilated. Nothing more, nothing less.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 22 avril 2013 - 10:20 .

[Xilizhra]

Just don't presume to think that others who do not like Synthesis are of lesser intellect.

I think the correlation goes the other way: those of lesser intellect are most easily attracted to Destroy, as it's the simplest and most obviously safe.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Just don't presume to think that others who do not like Synthesis are of lesser intellect.

I think the correlation goes the other way: those of lesser intellect are most easily attracted to Destroy, as it's the simplest and most obviously safe.

. Welcome to "How to be a pretentious *** 101"

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Just don't presume to think that others who do not like Synthesis are of lesser intellect.

I think the correlation goes the other way: those of lesser intellect are most easily attracted to Destroy, as it's the simplest and most obviously safe.

. Welcome to "How to be a pretentious *** 101"

I say nothing about the preferences of those of greater intellect (as everyone imagines themselves to be), merely that of those of lesser intellect.

[Steelcan]

The issue is that Synthesis isn't Sci-fi nonsense. It is fantasy. It reeks of vitalism and mystical qualities.

You can hide behind that quote all you want, but you can't make up for the fact that Synthesis is pure nonsense.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Just don't presume to think that others who do not like Synthesis are of lesser intellect.

I think the correlation goes the other way: those of lesser intellect are most easily attracted to Destroy, as it's the simplest and most obviously safe.

. Welcome to "How to be a pretentious *** 101"

I say nothing about the preferences of those of greater intellect (as everyone imagines themselves to be), merely that of those of lesser intellect.

. So dumb people pick Destroy.   How are you disproving my point?

[Han Shot First]

People prefer Destroy because it is a win ending. Gamers generally like to win games they take time to finish.

Synthesis is a stalemate at best.

[David7204]

Isn't proclaiming that it's impossible to restore function to Shepard's brain and body also basically vitalism? Isn't that pretty much what vitalism is? Claiming life has some inherent quality beyond mundane matter? That the brain is beyond restoration because it's life?

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Han Shot First wrote...

People prefer Destroy because it is a win ending. Gamers generally like to win games they take time to finish.

Synthesis is a stalemate at best.

That, or all we destroyers are obviously like hitler and have half the iq of a dog.

Yeah, that's probably it.

[Argolas]

David7204 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Once these rules that we learned about and accepted so long ago are broken that drastically without explanation, everything changes. Suddenly, the Mass Effect universe is not a believable alternate reality that follows fictional but consistent rules anymore. Suddenly, the Mass Effect universe is some weird place where anything can happen at any time for no reason, and that's something we can't believe in. That breaks everything. It breaks our immersion into the story. It breaks our secondary belief in the universe. It creates disbelief that we can't simply suspend.

That retrospectively kills the whole franchise because all those rules and consistencies that defined the universe suddenly have no meaning anymore. Anything can happen at any time for no reason. The universe we came to love is broken by that.

I don't like Synthesis, but don't go overboard. Every popular science fiction story in existence has such problems. We don't go screaming RUINED FOREVER!!!!! Every story of considerable length that deals with high-tech is going to have such problems. Look at things like Skyfall or The Dark Knight Rises. Not only that, some fudging is flatly necessary to make the story work as a video game.

I'm not too familiar with science fiction in general so I can't judge many other stories, but I experienced the ending as very bad and I consider what I explained above one of the main reasons. I can suck up minor plot holes pretty easily. I am quick at accepting handwaves when they aren't too significant and obvious. But that was the conclusion of a trilogy that went on for 5 years. At the probably most important moment in the game for what we will remember the trilogy like, the mother of all plot holes was thrown in with no explanation to speak of at all. And yes, I think this can break the whole franchise. For many players it did. How often do you hear of players who replayed the game over and over and suddenly didn't want to do that anymore after experiencing the ending? I was one of those. And I believe that is because all those rules have no meaning anymore knowing that things like that Synthesis can happen for no reason.

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Isn't proclaiming that it's impossible to restore function to Shepard's brain and body also basically vitalism? Isn't that pretty much what vitalism is? Claiming life has some inherent quality beyond mundane matter? That the brain is beyond restoration because it's life?

. I think the issue was more its oxygen deprivation.  If the brain doesn't get oxygen it starts to fall apart rather quickly.

[Xilizhra]

David7204 wrote...

Isn't proclaiming that it's impossible to restore function to Shepard's brain and body also basically vitalism? Isn't that pretty much what vitalism is? Claiming life has some inherent quality beyond mundane matter? That the brain is beyond restoration because it's life?

I think the question is: is the perspective the same? Is the consciousness the same? If you died and were revived, would it still be "you" that was looking out the other side? The problem, of course, is that it's impossible, so far as we know, to determine this from the outside, as we're never truly someone else's "I."

[Seival]

Han Shot First wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...


Synthesis was a culmination of everything that had come before it, of everything we'd seen and done, and in the end it presented us with a new potentiality; A symbolic dream of a far-flung future. What drives us is the want to understand and even realise ideas. The worst thing you could ever do is to want to dismiss or destroy an idea. Ideas are what we are.

The Reapers are an idea now?

They're genocidal war-machines that need to be annihilated. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nothing has to be annihilated.
Changes are inevitable, because they form evolution.

Catalyst understands that, but you don't.

Catalyst acts like the nature itself creating more lives than it has consumed. Better lives.
The Catalyst just sped up the process, nothing more.
Galactic civilization is much more threat to itself than the Catalyst and the Reapers.

Modifié par Seival, 22 avril 2013 - 10:30 .

[David7204]

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Isn't proclaiming that it's impossible to restore function to Shepard's brain and body also basically vitalism? Isn't that pretty much what vitalism is? Claiming life has some inherent quality beyond mundane matter? That the brain is beyond restoration because it's life?

. I think the issue was more its oxygen deprivation.  If the brain doesn't get oxygen it starts to fall apart rather quickly.

So what? Why should it be beyond restoration?

[Steelcan]

David7204 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Isn't proclaiming that it's impossible to restore function to Shepard's brain and body also basically vitalism? Isn't that pretty much what vitalism is? Claiming life has some inherent quality beyond mundane matter? That the brain is beyond restoration because it's life?

. I think the issue was more its oxygen deprivation.  If the brain doesn't get oxygen it starts to fall apart rather quickly.

So what? Why should it be beyond restoration?

. Because it starts to decay.  It'd be like trying to reanimate week old road kill.

[Mangalores]

David7204 wrote...

...
It should be completely freaking obvious why Lazarus is only avaliable for Shepard! It took an immense amount of money, an immense amount of expertise, an immense amount of motivation, a considerable amount of time, a considerable amount of luck, and a very specific death!

A terror organization could scrape it together. Ergo, it plainly can't be that hard. You can't buy everything, least of all an applicable technology without the science to build it => once we know the science how something is built, we adapt it within less than a decade by now.
If it's expensive the last guy we give it to is some infantry grunt however highly decorated.

But I don't have anything fundamental against the Lazarus project other than it being the first instance of lazy writing. How do we get Shepard to be with Cerberus, the guys he hunted and kill the entire ME1 game? We shoot him and then rebuild him ... *silence* ...  I guess that will work.

Han Shot First...
People prefer Destroy because it is a win ending. Gamers generally like to win games they take time to finish.

Synthesis is a stalemate at best.

No, I just like to shoot stuff. hawrhawr... /sarcasm

Modifié par Mangalores, 22 avril 2013 - 10:33 .

[rapscallioness]

I rather enjoyed your post, Auld.

Well, except for that whole "over your heads" part. You know. However, I persevered thru the post, and I'm glad I did.

Honestly: I think Synthesis is a beautiful and intriguing concept. The idea is pure, delicious Sci-Fi. Synthetic and Organic fused.

You could say it was a push in evolution, but would you call it natural evolution? Or, the ultimate display of how much organics have become attached to their tech.

This isn't natural to me. Natural evolution. This is genetic engineering, by organics. They're the ones that created the whole Reaper madness in the first place. Although, I suppose one could in a broad sense say this would be evolution since the main point of evolution is to survive.

And that's what it came down to. It's a great sci-fi concept.

But when I'm playing as Shep w/this course of action presented to me, it's overwhelming. The scope of what you're abt to do is so immense. So encompassing. It is every blade of grass. Every leaf. Across the galaxy.

Even the lil up and coming bacteria on some unknown world. I just don't feel I have the right to do that.

I still think it's a really interesting idea.

[Steelcan]

Seival wrote...


Nothing has to be annihilated.
Changes are inevitable, because they form evolution.

Catalyst understands that, but you don't.

Catalyst acts like the nature itself creating more lives than it has consumed. Better lives.
The Catalyst just sped up the process, nothing more.
Galactic civilization is much more threat to itself than the Catalyst and the Reapers.

Im sorry what was tha?  I can't hear you over the Reapers creating life.

[Han Shot First]

Seival wrote...

Catalyst understands that, but you don't.

The Catalyst is a malfunctioning A.I. whose solution to problem with rebelling synthetics, was to liquify the members of every organic space faring species for all time.

Brilliant.

Where is the off switch again?

[Steelcan]

Han Shot First wrote...

Seival wrote...

Catalyst understands that, but you don't.

The Catalyst is a malfunctioning A.I. whose solution to problem with rebelling synthetics, was to liquify the members of every organic space faring species for all time.

Brilliant.

Where is the off switch again?

. 30 paces to your right and half a thermal clip away 

Modifié par Steelcan, 22 avril 2013 - 10:36 .

[David7204]

Mangalores wrote...

David7204 wrote...

...
It should be completely freaking obvious why Lazarus is only avaliable for Shepard! It took an immense amount of money, an immense amount of expertise, an immense amount of motivation, a considerable amount of time, a considerable amount of luck, and a very specific death!

A terror organization could scrape it together. Ergo, it plainly can't be that hard. You can't buy everything, least of all an applicable technology without the science to build it => once we know the science how something is built, we adapt it within less than a decade by now.
If it's expensive the last guy we give it to is some infantry grunt however highly decorated.

But I don't have anything fundamental against the Lazarus project other than it being the first instance of lazy writing. How do we get Shepard to be with Cerberus, the guys he hunted and kill the entire ME1 game? We shoot him and then rebuild him ... *silence* ...  I guess that will work.

Goddamn, passive-aggressive enough? "I don't have a problem with it all, except it's total crap. It's just my opinion."

This logic is just stupid. Cerberus is not dumb because they're terrorists. And a technological feat being pulled off by very specific people with a very specific motivation and very specific resources for a very specific circumstance is nowhere close to a guarentee that a technology will be in circulation.

Modifié par David7204, 22 avril 2013 - 10:40 .

[Seival]

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...


Nothing has to be annihilated.
Changes are inevitable, because they form evolution.

Catalyst understands that, but you don't.

Catalyst acts like the nature itself creating more lives than it has consumed. Better lives.
The Catalyst just sped up the process, nothing more.
Galactic civilization is much more threat to itself than the Catalyst and the Reapers.

***

Im sorry what was tha?  I can't hear you over the Reapers creating life.

I can link you much more ugly and realistic images of natural life-death circle, but I think you'll become too depressed after watching them.

Modifié par Seival, 22 avril 2013 - 10:39 .

[Steelcan]

Seival wrote...

I can link you much more ugly and realistic images of natural life-death circle, but I think you become too depressed after that.

. Except that Kelly's death was mandated by an AI who functions on what can best be describes as "insane troll logic".  

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...


Nothing has to be annihilated.
Changes are inevitable, because they form evolution.

Catalyst understands that, but you don't.

Catalyst acts like the nature itself creating more lives than it has consumed. Better lives.
The Catalyst just sped up the process, nothing more.
Galactic civilization is much more threat to itself than the Catalyst and the Reapers.

***

Im sorry what was tha?  I can't hear you over the Reapers creating life.

I can link you much more ugly and realistic images of natural life-death circle, but I think you'll become too depressed after watching them.

You'll have to speak up, the sound is deafening.

[Seival]

Han Shot First wrote...

Seival wrote...

Catalyst understands that, but you don't.

The Catalyst is a malfunctioning A.I. whose solution to problem with rebelling synthetics, was to liquify the members of every organic space faring species for all time.

Brilliant.

Where is the off switch again?

The Catalyst was not a mistake and works as intended. It sped up the evolution process to find an ideal solution to the problem. The Catalyst killed no one, just like Nature itself killed no one. Everything goes naturally, but much faster than usual.