336 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Allow me to provide another article:

Magic A is Magic A

It's a basic precept of fiction writing. The audience is willing to suspend disbelief to a very generous degree, but once the writer establishes the rules of the story universe, in the interest of their audience's continued interest (and sanity), it's in their best interest to follow the rules they made up.

"We don't ask that you stay within the bounds of physics, but at least follow the rules you freaking made up."

Putting aside the ethical considerations surrounding all three endings, Synthesis has no narrative foreshadowing, no logical mechanism for its implementation, and no basis in either real-life science or that which was established for the Mass Effect universe. It got pulled out of a hat at the last minute, and a good number of us aren't willing to simply accept it without question. To an extent, Destroy and Control do this as well, though they don't do as thorough a job of mangling the story universe as the oft-professed "utopia button" ending.

This was pointed out on the first page, but again, ignored.  Ahaha. 

[radishson]

Archonsg wrote...

It amazes me just how often pro-synthesis supporters choose to excercise the argument that those who disdain the "Synthesis" ending lack understanding or the faculties to do so when it is really a case of one having weighed, judged and found Synthesis wanting.

If you are happy with it, hey its your game, your Shepard and your perception of what you think is a "good" for your game.

Just don't presume to think that others who do not like Synthesis are of lesser intellect.

QFT

[kalasaurus]

spirosz wrote...

I really don't understand it, I personally am not trying to take away your satisfaction or ability to pick what ending you want, you want Synthesis and you truly believe it's the best solution and or chose for Shepard, by all means, go for it. Any ending, by that matter - pick what makes you happy for your game, you shouldn't call others or look down on others because they pick a certain ending or even have the audacity to believe you understand why THEY pick the ending, based off YOUR beliefs and what shaped you...

You did not live their live, experience what they experienced, gone through what some people have, each individual takes different values from said ending and game, but neither is more right or "better, smarter" than the other, Wulf.

This.  Well said.

[Straw Nihilist]

Yeah uhh... Just so I don't get associated with Seival, I'ma point out that I only picked synthesis because green is not a creative colour.

Seival wrote...

Det. Bones wrote...

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...


According to himself and according his actions his goal had nothing to do with preserving nature's balance or creating new lives. Learn history, please.

. He makes this clear in Mein Kampf, he wants to restore the world by ridding it of undesirables. He wants to usher in a new age of Aryan dominance.

That is called "crusade". Crusades are just a "clash of clans", a barbaric war for the territory, resources, and dominance. This is no more evolution than fight between two males because of female. Intelligent beings are above that, their evolution already left those primitive ways behind, and moved further.

So please, don't compare tribal leader with large stone club with advanced AI.

B*tch please. I'm an intelligent being and I headbutted a guy over a girl two days ago. Refute that, I dare you, I double dare you.

If so, then your intelligence is closer to a monkey than to a human, I'm afraid. Did you learn to talk and persuade just for show, or those skills were given to you for a purpose? Couldn't you solve the situation peacefully? Or your opponent was another monkey?

Fan-****ing-tastic, does this mean I can speak monkey? I bloody love those buggers.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Det. Bones wrote...

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...


According to himself and according his actions his goal had nothing to do with preserving nature's balance or creating new lives. Learn history, please.

. He makes this clear in Mein Kampf, he wants to restore the world by ridding it of undesirables. He wants to usher in a new age of Aryan dominance.

That is called "crusade". Crusades are just a "clash of clans", a barbaric war for the territory, resources, and dominance. This is no more evolution than fight between two males because of female. Intelligent beings are above that, their evolution already left those primitive ways behind, and moved further.

So please, don't compare tribal leader with large stone club with advanced AI.

B*tch please. I'm an intelligent being and I headbutted a guy over a girl two days ago. Refute that, I dare you, I double dare you.

If so, then your intelligence is closer to a monkey than to a human, I'm afraid. Did you learn to talk and persuade just for show, or those skills were given to you for a purpose? Couldn't you solve the situation peacefully? Or your opponent was another monkey?

Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson was a frequent amateur wrestle during his college and university days, whilst studying for a bachelor in physics, and then a masters in astronomy.

Your argument is meaningless.

[Argolas]

This was delicious again, don't ever change BSN. Alright, I'm off for now. Until then...

[remydat]

The problem is simple. People who don't like destroy will claim it is simple and appeals to people's base instinct to kill Reapers. People who don't like synthesis will claim it is space magic. All the while each side will act like the other isn't basically calling the other side stupid.

If you think Destroy appeals to people's base instincts, that is your opinion. Doesn't actually mean everyone who picks Destroy feels that way. If you think Synthesis is space magic, that is your opinion. Doesn't actually mean everyon who picks Synthesis feels that way.

[GreyLycanTrope]

frostajulie wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

This is worth a read.

One of the things that always confused me with the Mass Effect fanbase is its fetishism of fact, even in a fictional story, to go so far as to say that canon isn't canon. The hatred for the Lazarus Project and Synthesis, in the face of stupendously smart men like Arthur C. Clarke pointing out the fatal flaw with that kind of thinking. This is why I still think that Synthesis goes over the head of the average fan, and incites pitchforks and torches raised in anger with screams of abomination, embracing hatred and fear over erudite understanding.

See, here's a thing: Science-Fiction is fiction. Fiction deals with dreams, ideals, and symbolism. It would be very, very bad fiction if it didn't, and there's already enough bad fiction out there. It's attractive to think of Today being Forever, it's comforting and familiar. It's like the little cardboard box you'll never creep out of, making the average person intellectually a hermit crab. When I look at fiction, I see tales of what could be, what might be, and what potentialities exist. Synthesis is attractive to me because it is a potentiality.

As a fun what if, a little thought exercise as you know I like those, what if all alien life in the galactic community is already wired into an AI in order to achieve complete understanding of their own race? What if the ultimate test of nature is to achieve that complete understanding? What if this is our test? The test of each sapient race. Every planet is fragile, every planet can only last so long with its inhabitants draining resources and slowly killing it. What if the greatest test for any sapient race is to pull together as a whole, with complete understanding of every other person, sharing themselves in a state of understanding, sans suffering?

Whta if that's what alien races had seen time and again? If you can escape your planet by gaining global understanding, and working towards the mutual goal of being spaceborne, then you pass. If you fail, then you won't be around to care about it. Stephen Hawking warns us of confining ourselves to earth. So what if? What if the galactic community is waiting and watching? That is but one idea, and an idea is a powerful thing. Fiction is about ideas. Romance, potentiality, what could we be, one day?

Fiction is a beautiful thing.

Does it matter if fiction isn't mired too much in modern day fact? I'd say no. Star Trek was a hilarious fabrication of pseudoscience and it was well loved. And at times, Star Trek was art. You see, when you ground fiction in fact too much, you're binding it in chains, tying it down with the weight and burden of expectation to be real, you're limiting it, you're telling it what it can't be, and where it can't go. But for fiction to be art, in any way, it has to be free. I believe that... in its own way? Synthesis was art. It's a powerful idea, as part of fiction.

I feel if you don't get that, then you don't understand why we have fiction in the first place. Why we bother to create, explore, or reach for the stars. And if you don't understand that, then what point is there to getting out of bed each morning? Human imagination is powered by ideals, not facts. When a Scientist works on a theory, they're fashioning various could be's and pontentialities, working imaginary numbers, and sometimes even just throwing things at the wall until something sticks. It's the idea that propels us forward, it's the idea that makes us special.

Synthesis was a culmination of everything that had come before it, of everything we'd seen and done, and in the end it presented us with a new potentiality; A symbolic dream of a far-flung future. What drives us is the want to understand and even realise ideas. The worst thing you could ever do is to want to dismiss or destroy an idea. Ideas are what we are.

I agree.

Now where is my conventional victory with refuse.  If Synthesis can happen so can my conventional victory with refuse.

Not enough of an idea apparently.

[DeinonSlayer]

Argolas wrote...

This was delicious again, don't ever change BSN. Alright, I'm off for now. Until then...

Also, love the sig.

[Kataphrut94]

I like that RPS quote because it illustrates just how little of a **** is needed to be given in order to appreciate the ending. If only everyone else could adopt Mr Walker's policy of just getting over it. Stuff like synthesis is the thin end of the wedge when it comes to science fiction technobabble plot devices - watch any episode of classic Star Trek or Doctor Who and you'll see what I mean.

[Ravensword]

Det. Bones wrote...

Yeah uhh... Just so I don't get associated with Seival, I'ma point out that I only picked synthesis because green is not a creative colour.

Seival wrote...

Det. Bones wrote...

Seival wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...


According to himself and according his actions his goal had nothing to do with preserving nature's balance or creating new lives. Learn history, please.

. He makes this clear in Mein Kampf, he wants to restore the world by ridding it of undesirables. He wants to usher in a new age of Aryan dominance.

That is called "crusade". Crusades are just a "clash of clans", a barbaric war for the territory, resources, and dominance. This is no more evolution than fight between two males because of female. Intelligent beings are above that, their evolution already left those primitive ways behind, and moved further.

So please, don't compare tribal leader with large stone club with advanced AI.

B*tch please. I'm an intelligent being and I headbutted a guy over a girl two days ago. Refute that, I dare you, I double dare you.

If so, then your intelligence is closer to a monkey than to a human, I'm afraid. Did you learn to talk and persuade just for show, or those skills were given to you for a purpose? Couldn't you solve the situation peacefully? Or your opponent was another monkey?

Fan-****ing-tastic, does this mean I can speak monkey? I bloody love those buggers.

I'll have you all know that I am very intelligent for a green monkey. Green.

[Steelcan]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I like that RPS quote because it illustrates just how little of a **** is needed to be given in order to appreciate the ending. If only everyone else could adopt Mr Walker's policy of just getting over it. Stuff like synthesis is the thin end of the wedge when it comes to science fiction technobabble plot devices - watch any episode of classic Star Trek or Doctor Who and you'll see what I mean.

. Except they at least attempt to use techno babble.  Synthesis relies on vitalistic principles.

[adayaday]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I like that RPS quote because it illustrates just how little of a **** is needed to be given in order to appreciate the ending. If only everyone else could adopt Mr Walker's policy of just getting over it. Stuff like synthesis is the thin end of the wedge when it comes to science fiction technobabble plot devices - watch any episode of classic Star Trek or Doctor Who and you'll see what I mean.

So basically you are telling me to shut down my brain sit back and just swallow it?

[Ecrulis]

Archonsg wrote...

It amazes me just how often pro-synthesis supporters choose to excercise the argument that those who disdain the "Synthesis" ending lack understanding or the faculties to do so when it is really a case of one having weighed, judged and found Synthesis wanting.

If you are happy with it, hey its your game, your Shepard and your perception of what you think is a "good" for your game.

Just don't presume to think that others who do not like Synthesis are of lesser intellect.

This, people want to know why "destroyers" tend to be hostile to pro-synth people? Maybe it's because we aren't terribly fond of some knob on the internet somehow judging we are too "blue-collar" to understand the magnificance that is synthesis. I don't care what ending people like but to claim synthesis is some deep original magnificant idea is laughable. The bottom line is all three endings (especially pre-EC) are direct copy pasts of Deus Ex (hell down to the damn color scheme) with some nonsensical matrix 2 style exposition sprinkled on top. There is nothing creative, original, or thought provoking about ANY of the endings.

Unlike some people on this forum I refuse to make snap judgments about peoples real life personalities based on a damn videogame, Pro-synthesis people don't want to rape the world, pro-control people are not stalin wannabies and pro-destroy people are not genocidal sociopaths.

It is a game, pixels, NOT ****ING REAL!

Modifié par Ecrulis, 22 avril 2013 - 11:48 .

[Jukaga]

I wonder sometimes if Bio had a refuse ending with a conventional victory possible with extremely high EMS would they be showered with as much praise as they are condemnation right now?

[Ravensword]

Jukaga wrote...

I wonder sometimes if Bio had a refuse ending with a conventional victory possible with extremely high EMS would they be showered with as much praise as they are condemnation right now?

It would've been a nice touch.

[David7204]

Jukaga wrote...

I wonder sometimes if Bio had a refuse ending with a conventional victory possible with extremely high EMS would they be showered with as much praise as they are condemnation right now?

That would be decent, but it still has an awful lot of problems.

[Wynterdust]

What I've learnt from this thread:
- Many of us have low intelligence based on an ending choice in a game and that said choice means we are genocidal cavemen.
- That the insanity of some has 100% convinced me.... to never pick synthesis.

[Col.Aurion]

pass the popcorn please.

[OdanUrr]

I'm not sure I want to reply to the OP. For now I hope this is enough:



This is the transcript of the bit I'm interested in:

Isaac Asimov said...

(...) in science fiction, you're allowed to depart from scientific possibility provided you know that you're departing from it and can explain it. The reader will go along with you into the realm of fantasy if you'll give him an excuse. But to do it without realizing you're going into fantasy is insulting to the intelligent reader.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 23 avril 2013 - 12:35 .

[AresKeith]

Seival wants people to join his Cult of Reapers

[Kataphrut94]

adayaday wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I like that RPS quote because it illustrates just how little of a **** is needed to be given in order to appreciate the ending. If only everyone else could adopt Mr Walker's policy of just getting over it. Stuff like synthesis is the thin end of the wedge when it comes to science fiction technobabble plot devices - watch any episode of classic Star Trek or Doctor Who and you'll see what I mean.

So basically you are telling me to shut down my brain sit back and just swallow it?

Yup! Don't we all?

[Big Bad]

Who could possibly have known that repeatedly telling people they're stupid for disagreeing with you would turn out to be a poor way of swaying them to your view point? Shocking, truly shocking.