336 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

Don't feed the troll.

[frostajulie]

Jukaga wrote...

I wonder sometimes if Bio had a refuse ending with a conventional victory possible with extremely high EMS would they be showered with as much praise as they are condemnation right now?

In all seriousness I would shower them with whatever they wanted if I got a conventional victory via refuse:mellow:

[Malanek]

Even if it isn't scientifically sound it should still be believable. Lazarus project was believable for me. Synthesis wasn't and honestly it wasn't even close to it. The story is not supposed to be nonesense.

Modifié par Malanek999, 23 avril 2013 - 02:03 .

[Archonsg]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Det. Bones wrote...
Things to take from this poll: Seival is bat sh*t crazy.

Seconded.  And I'd thought I'd seen all the loony that BSN can throw...

You weren't around when S/he/it lauded "The Holocaust" and recomended  essentially an eugenics program for the human race?

[Megaton_Hope]

Personally, I have no great love for Arthur C. Clarke's writing, however influential he may be in his field.

[Random Geth]

Oh look, another ridiculous self-important rant on the merits of embracing stupidity. I skimmed the article in the OP, and it contains nothing new or interesting. At least post something original if you're going to defend this garbage.

[ThinkSharp]

remydat wrote...

The problem is simple. People who don't like destroy will claim it is simple and appeals to people's base instinct to kill Reapers. People who don't like synthesis will claim it is space magic. All the while each side will act like the other isn't basically calling the other side stupid.

If you think Destroy appeals to people's base instincts, that is your opinion. Doesn't actually mean everyone who picks Destroy feels that way. If you think Synthesis is space magic, that is your opinion. Doesn't actually mean everyon who picks Synthesis feels that way.

^ Right here.

I understand the symbolism of Synthesis. I believe it's a beautiful idea. I don't believe it came out of left field entirely (though many do), but I don't think it was integrated well (no pun intended). The same problem for Control.

Some say that Synthesis could not exist according to the universe's rules. I disagree. It isn't rules that are missing, but a proper introduction or some other narrative preparation. As it is the only preparation we really get is  Saren, husks, banshees, brutes, marauders... all of these killing machines of warped organics filled with reaper tech. For the one who controls the enemy to then say, "Well, you could actually make this work unlike all that" is not enough to make it palatable or convincing. That the end result is indeed something beautiful does not necessarily make up for the gigantic leap of faith needed to get there. That's my opinion. I'm alright with the simplistic science, and I love the idea of synthesis--it is my preferred choice, after all--but there is indeed a lack in the narrative.

Besides, just as Synthesis is an idea and a symbol, so are the other endings. Players will prefer those ideas as well. Not necessarily because they misunderstand Synthesis. I'm sure many who dislike Synthesis also understand it very well. They simply reject it, which is their right. That's not a reflection of the size of their intellect.

What does provide a reflection is any cry that anyone who chose Synthesis is immediately stupid or illogical or whatever. Any cry that any of the endings is intrinisically smarter or right is ridiculous. It's one thing to argue opinion logically and persuasively and another thing to mistake opinion with fact. Just crying "space magic" or "close-minded, cold-hearted killers" achieves nothing.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 23 avril 2013 - 03:38 .

[Megaton_Hope]

Yeah, Synthesis would have benefited from a more...not homicidally insane...hybrid life form. Aside from some fairly limited expressions of bionics (like the biotic amplifier or Shepard's life-saving implants in ME2), the game just doesn't pave the way for the idea of a fully integrated hybrid very effectively.

Also, I personally still wonder what happens to wheat, cattle, bumble bees, starships and pocket calculators.

[o Ventus]

The OP amuses me.

People disagree, so they obviously lack understanding.

[spirosz]

ThinkSharp wrote...

remydat wrote...

The problem is simple. People who don't like destroy will claim it is simple and appeals to people's base instinct to kill Reapers. People who don't like synthesis will claim it is space magic. All the while each side will act like the other isn't basically calling the other side stupid.

If you think Destroy appeals to people's base instincts, that is your opinion. Doesn't actually mean everyone who picks Destroy feels that way. If you think Synthesis is space magic, that is your opinion. Doesn't actually mean everyon who picks Synthesis feels that way.

^ Right here.

I understand the symbolism of Synthesis. I believe it's a beautiful idea. I don't believe it came out of left field entirely (though many do), but I don't think it was integrated well (no pun intended). The same problem for Control.

Some say that Synthesis could not exist according to the universe's rules. I disagree. It isn't rules that are missing, but a proper introduction or some other narrative preparation. As it is the only preparation we really get is  Saren, husks, banshees, brutes, marauders... all of these killing machines of warped organics filled with reaper tech. For the one who controls the enemy to then say, "Well, you could actually make this work unlike all that" is not enough to make it palatable or convincing. That the end result is indeed something beautiful does not necessarily make up for the gigantic leap of faith needed to get there. That's my opinion. I'm alright with the simplistic science, and I love the idea of synthesis--it is my preferred choice, after all--but there is indeed a lack in the narrative.

Besides, just as Synthesis is an idea and a symbol, so are the other endings. Players will prefer those ideas as well. Not necessarily because they misunderstand Synthesis. I'm sure many who dislike Synthesis also understand it very well. They simply reject it, which is their right. That's not a reflection of the size of their intellect.

^

I actually love the whole aspect of acheiving a balance between organics and synthetics, but personally, the way it's executed in ME3, for me (that's the important thing) is terrible.  It just feels wrong on so many levels. 

[o Ventus]

Seival wrote...

The Catalyst was not a mistake and works as intended. It sped up the evolution process to find an ideal solution to the problem. The Catalyst killed no one, just like Nature itself killed no one. Everything goes naturally, but much faster than usual.

So liquefying people and turning them into goo is not "killing them"? 

So you're telling me that people who are no longer biologically alive aren't "dead"?

[spirosz]

o Ventus wrote...

Seival wrote...

The Catalyst was not a mistake and works as intended. It sped up the evolution process to find an ideal solution to the problem. The Catalyst killed no one, just like Nature itself killed no one. Everything goes naturally, but much faster than usual.

So liquefying people and turning them into goo is not "killing them"? 

So you're telling me that people who are no longer biologically alive aren't "dead"?

THEIR SPIRIT LIVES UPON THE LIVING UPON DEATH UPON REAPING.

[o Ventus]

spirosz wrote...

THEIR SPIRIT LIVES UPON THE LIVING UPON DEATH UPON REAPING.

Yeah, and I'm not allowed to argue against it because it's fiction.

It doesn't have any credence from its own laws and universe, but it's fiction, so it's allowed to do whatever the f**k it wants.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

o Ventus wrote...

spirosz wrote...

THEIR SPIRIT LIVES UPON THE LIVING UPON DEATH UPON REAPING.

Yeah, and I'm not allowed to argue against it because it's fiction.

It doesn't have any credence from its own laws and universe, but it's fiction, so it's allowed to do whatever the f**k it wants.

[dreamgazer]

o Ventus wrote...

spirosz wrote...

THEIR SPIRIT LIVES UPON THE LIVING UPON DEATH UPON REAPING.

Yeah, and I'm not allowed to argue against it because it's fiction.

It doesn't have any credence from its own laws and universe, but it's fiction, so it's allowed to do whatever the f**k it wants.

If that's the case, can we just develop a ray gun that transforms the Reapers into spears of asparagus?

Because, y'know, science-fiction. 

[Ecrulis]

dreamgazer wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

spirosz wrote...

THEIR SPIRIT LIVES UPON THE LIVING UPON DEATH UPON REAPING.

Yeah, and I'm not allowed to argue against it because it's fiction.

It doesn't have any credence from its own laws and universe, but it's fiction, so it's allowed to do whatever the f**k it wants.

If that's the case, can we just develop a ray gun that transforms the Reapers into spears of asparagus?

Because, y'know, science-fiction. 

I see your ray gun of asparagus and raise you a laser pointer that turns them into delicious waffles

[spirosz]

I check.

[AlexMBrennan]

If you think Synthesis is space magic, that is your opinion

Incorrect. Whether synthesis follows the established laws of the me universe or is introruced at the last minute to solve a problem is objective fact.

Some say that Synthesis could not exist according to the universe's rules. I disagree. It isn't rules that are missing, but a proper introduction or some other narrative preparation. As it is the only preparation we really get is Saren, husks, banshees, brutes, marauders.

We have seen organics with bits of welded on tech parts whereas godchild says that synthesis is a new DNA framework whilst rambling on about a final stage of evolution. None of that makes any sense in either real life science or the me universe.

As for project Lazarus, I applaude your ability to suspend disbelief - I myself am unfortunately aware that atmospheric re-entry is quite damaging (Challenger disaster? Meteoroids burning up in our atmosphere?).

[o Ventus]

dreamgazer wrote...

If that's the case, can we just develop a ray gun that transforms the Reapers into spears of asparagus?

Because, y'know, science-fiction. 

No, because nobody likes asparagus. All the science-fiction in the world won't change that.

[Astartes Marine]

Archonsg wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

Det. Bones wrote...
Things to take from this poll: Seival is bat sh*t crazy.

Seconded.  And I'd thought I'd seen all the loony that BSN can throw...

You weren't around when S/he/it lauded "The Holocaust" and recomended  essentially an eugenics program for the human race?

What. The. Frak? 


When was this?  Why?  And why wasn't this person banned?

EDIT:

o Ventus wrote...
So liquefying people and turning them into goo is not "killing them"?
So you're telling me that people who are no longer biologically alive aren't "dead"?

At first I would second this post and want answers too...but now I'm not so sure after the above part of this post.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 23 avril 2013 - 03:46 .

[ThinkSharp]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

If you think Synthesis is space magic, that is your opinion

Incorrect. Whether synthesis follows the established laws of the me universe or is introruced at the last minute to solve a problem is objective fact.

Some say that Synthesis could not exist according to the universe's rules. I disagree. It isn't rules that are missing, but a proper introduction or some other narrative preparation. As it is the only preparation we really get is Saren, husks, banshees, brutes, marauders.

We have seen organics with bits of welded on tech parts whereas godchild says that synthesis is a new DNA framework whilst rambling on about a final stage of evolution. None of that makes any sense in either real life science or the me universe.

As for project Lazarus, I applaude your ability to suspend disbelief - I myself am unfortunately aware that atmospheric re-entry is quite damaging (Challenger disaster? Meteoroids burning up in our atmosphere?).

Breaking rules and being newly introduced are not the same thing. There is no rule claiming that Synthesis could not happen. I don't see how it's any more magical than a beam instantly killing all synthetics or a beam melting a human into an AI and then merging that intelligence with Reapers. They are all space magic. If you hate that, well, then fine. That's your opinion. I'm not arguing about quality here. I'm more content to accept "this is fiction" as an explanation here. I realize a lot of people think it's really crappy fiction and a cop-out. Alright.

As far as Saren/Reaperized organics vs. Synthesized life: yeah, it's not the same thing. We aren't given any previous basis for Synthesis. I think you and I are saying that. The best preparation we get is a similar model: Saren and etc.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 23 avril 2013 - 03:49 .

[Archonsg]

o Ventus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

If that's the case, can we just develop a ray gun that transforms the Reapers into spears of asparagus?

Because, y'know, science-fiction. 

No, because nobody likes asparagus. All the science-fiction in the world won't change that.

I like mine in a butter, garlic and herb sauce thank you very much. ;-) 

[Indy_S]

Wulfie, your grandstanding here is quite entertaining. Combined with Seival, this thread is simply amazing. I'm glad to see you're being consistent.

Slightly altering what Auld Wulf wrote...
Oh Auld Wulf -- attack the person, never the argument. Do you have to be so subhuman? Is that your role in reality? I mean, honestly... I don't think I've ever seen one of you nasty little blighters attack one of my arguments rather than me myself.

It's no wonder I feel so magnanimous to Destroy fans, and so utterly disgusted by you and yours.

Welp, I get the high horse. I like the high horse. You can fling all the mud at me you like from down there.

[Big Bad]

Archonsg wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

If that's the case, can we just develop a ray gun that transforms the Reapers into spears of asparagus?

Because, y'know, science-fiction. 

No, because nobody likes asparagus. All the science-fiction in the world won't change that.

I like mine in a butter, garlic and herb sauce thank you very much. ;-) 

Well that's damning with faint praise.  Gimme enough butter, garlic and herb sauce, and I bet fried husk leg would taste good too! 

[Indy_S]

o Ventus wrote...

The OP amuses me.

People disagree, so they obviously lack understanding.

Yes and as we all know, once we have understanding of each other, there will never be conflict between us. Because that's what understanding does.