218 réponses à ce sujet

[knownastherat]

XxDrunkSniperxX wrote...

dont know about emo but hes definitely emotionally retarded

That is why many girls like him so much Well, at least they like to believe they do ..

[syllogi]

Herr Uhl wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

13eelzebub wrote...

Unless he was that baby @ the end of the Calling, therefore he subconsciously knew Duncan for all his life

Well, if he's Fiona's son, it's entirely possible that Duncan would have come to visit him throughout his childhood.  The game doesn't explicitly say that Duncan and Alistair never met before he recruited him. 

This implies that he did not: http://social.biowar...ex.php/Alistair

That could be written off as heresay since it's from the journal of some templar who didn't know Duncan or Alistair well, and was just present at the tourney.  And Duncan could already know him at that point, but is making a point of asking about him because he already knows he wants to recruit him.

I'm not saying that it is or isn't true, but if they ever decide to clear up who Fiona's son is, either way they'll probably have some conflicting existing lore.

[Lughsan35]

Kimarous wrote...

Pissed for very believable reasons =/= emo

Indeed.. Pissed for making someone else King wheh he really wanted it and foot stomping and moaning about it would be emo...

[ejoslin]

With as much as Alistair talked about Duncan, if Duncan had been a fixture in Alistair's life, if he was even making an occasional visit to Ali in the Chantry, you think he would have mentioned it.

[beelzeybob]

TeenZombie wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

TeenZombie wrote...

13eelzebub wrote...

Unless he was that baby @ the end of the Calling, therefore he subconsciously knew Duncan for all his life

Well, if he's Fiona's son, it's entirely possible that Duncan would have come to visit him throughout his childhood.  The game doesn't explicitly say that Duncan and Alistair never met before he recruited him. 

This implies that he did not: http://social.biowar...ex.php/Alistair

That could be written off as heresay since it's from the journal of some templar who didn't know Duncan or Alistair well, and was just present at the tourney.  And Duncan could already know him at that point, but is making a point of asking about him because he already knows he wants to recruit him.

I'm not saying that it is or isn't true, but if they ever decide to clear up who Fiona's son is, either way they'll probably have some conflicting existing lore.

I'm actually kind of bothered by that Alistair article tbh:

- it makes it sound like he was 15 years old when Duncan used the rite of Conscription on him.

-In game he's been recruited for 6 months
-he looks 20 something years old ...plot holes

[mousestalker]

"Alistair appeared taken aback by the response, but perhaps not unpleasantly so. He stared agape until Duncan, with the slightest hint of a smile, suggested that the young man go and collect his gear for they would be leaving immediately. Alistair ran off with such speed that it brought knowing glances from members of the crowd.



Nothing was heard from Alistair after that night, but such is not unusual when it comes to Grey Wardens. What is known is that the templar barracks are far, far quieter without him.”



What's missing from that account (as found in the codex and the wiki article is the following line:

"For it is known that the Grey Wardens are a quiet folk much given to using an excess of lubrication."

[syllogi]

ejoslin wrote...

With as much as Alistair talked about Duncan, if Duncan had been a fixture in Alistair's life, if he was even making an occasional visit to Ali in the Chantry, you think he would have mentioned it.

I don't think a writer would clarify this, it's like Alistair's age, too much of a "tell" about plots yet written.

Honestly, it doesn't matter, when you consider Alistair's dream in the Fade, when he either had never met Goldanna or had only known her being a giant harpy towards him, he just wants a family desperately, and will latch on when he thinks he's found one. 

And I personally wish my characters could have whined more, especially my human noble.  If I could have, I would have worked, "yes, well, my parents were just murdered recently" into every conversation in the game.

[ejoslin]

Well, I don't deny that Alistair was extremely needy or that he saw Duncan and his relationship as something other than it was -- I just take exception to someone saying that recruiting Loghain is the same as a HN recruiting Howe. I also think it's unlikely that Alistair and Duncan had a lifelong relationship because it is not mentioned once by Alistair as such.



Ali worshipped Duncan, and after Ostegar, transferred that worship to the PC. His temper tantrum makes sense when the PC smashes his ideals completely; there is so much more than outrage going on there.

[robertthebard]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

highcastle wrote...

*sigh* It really confounds me how many people can't see things from Al's perspective. How about this: have you played as a human noble? What would you do if Al wanted to recruit Arl Howe?
Al lost his father figure and his brother to Loghain. He can't play nice with the guy. He just can't. And I really don't blame him.

Wow, this, again?  I have answered this before, but I'll answer it again, if Riordan suggested recruiting Howe, I would.  As I said in the very first thread this was suggested, I'd distance myself from him, and feel all dirty, and be sure to sacrifice myself to the Archdemon, but I'd do it.  Of course, comparing Howe to Loghain is out there in the extreme, and it's funny that the HN origin can be used to ignore Alistair's whining, since Alistair will completely ignore the fact that your whole family was killed to whine more about Duncan.  Losing Cailan means next to nothing to Alistair, other than with Cailin dead, he might have to own up to his bloodline, and then you get to hear all the emo crap about that too.  Who do you think inspired the Kleenex box in my sig?

So I take it you are the type who spares Loghain just to execute Alistair?

I let him run off to get drunk.  I don't miss him either way, he spends my games in camp with his box of Kleenex.

[Thor Rand Al]

lala_lover wrote...

I'm sick of people saying Alistair is being whiney because he didn't approve of Loghain joining the grey wardens, most normal people in his shoes would be angry too, hell if I were him I probably be so angry that I would attack the pc. Wouldn't you be just as angry as Alistair if he tried to recruit Arl Howe, Vaughan, or Bhelen?

I have to agree completely, would everyone want the other players to be wardens, Howl for example who's gone off n killed your whole family n then tells you in detail how he killed them;  would you want to make him a warden, that gives glory n honour. Jerks like that def don't need to be honoured, they need to have their heads cut off just like the justice you give to Loghain... No more glorifying them...

[maxernst]

To hell with whether it gives them glory and honor. Do you want to go into battle with someone you can't trust? I don't care how good a warrior they are if I'm not sure they're on my side.

[Fffk]

mousestalker wrote...

"Alistair appeared taken aback by the response, but perhaps not unpleasantly so. He stared agape until Duncan, with the slightest hint of a smile, suggested that the young man go and collect his gear for they would be leaving immediately. Alistair ran off with such speed that it brought knowing glances from members of the crowd.

Nothing was heard from Alistair after that night, but such is not unusual when it comes to Grey Wardens. What is known is that the templar barracks are far, far quieter without him.”

What's missing from that account (as found in the codex and the wiki article is the following line:
"For it is known that the Grey Wardens are a quiet folk much given to using an excess of lubrication."

Ancient Greece, much?

[Thor Rand Al]

maxernst wrote...

To hell with whether it gives them glory and honor. Do you want to go into battle with someone you can't trust? I don't care how good a warrior they are if I'm not sure they're on my side.

Even more of a reason to not have them in your party lol... Thats 1 of the reason's I can't side with Loghain because of all the wrong he's done, I def have a trust issue n that n I like Alistair too much lmao

[darkshadow136]

lala_lover wrote...

I'm sick of people saying Alistair is being whiney because he didn't approve of Loghain joining the grey wardens, most normal people in his shoes would be angry too, hell if I were him I probably be so angry that I would attack the pc. Wouldn't you be just as angry as Alistair if he tried to recruit Arl Howe, Vaughan, or Bhelen?

Agreed Howe is no better a choice than Loghain. Loghain went paranoid, power mad, ego-maniac, and tunnel visioned in his views. He forgot about the good of the poeple and got stuck on beloved Fereldon looking at his country as the people instead of the poeple themselves. Alistar had every reason to have a hate on for the guy. Sparring Loghain is a non-option for me off with his head. At some point  being a Grey warden Loghain would group up with the old Chamelon daughter Anora, and later turn against you in some way. Loghain thinks he's that important, and suffers from PTSD that bad from the Orlison wars.

[StarMars]

Well, Alistair was very emotional about it, so I think the word Emo is tacked on quite correctly in this circumstance, although I doubt the OP actually meant it that way.

And BFF totally means Best Frog Forever!

Yep, that is how I used it.

I don't see the connection between this game and emo songs so I don't see any other meaning you could put to how I used emo.

How about this: have you played as a human noble? What would you do if Al wanted to recruit Arl Howe?

I would let him join the Grey Wardens coz my character is good. In real life, I prolly won't but I'm role-playing an all-good character in this game. To let Loghain redeem himself (not revenge) is the "good" choice.

StarMars wrote...

Ferelden comes first. Loghain is still a good general.

Probably not from Kings point of view..^^
Sry, but a general who might spontaneously decide, that the orders given him are crap and leave the battlefield does noting other than deserting wich is generally seen as worst quality a soldier can have.
Usually a single soldier deserting does not convict thousands of people to death btw.

Well, he said he made one tactical error. And what I meant is more on his warrior skills than his leadership skills.


Don't get me wrong. I like Alistair. But in that one instance, he made me choose.


Yeah, I'm sure to play the bad guy next time. 

[Tirigon]

Alistair with Emo-hair might look interesting...

[robertthebard]

I'm still in awe of all the people that are "sick of reading about Alistair" that manage to pipe in on the conversation to slam the people that are sick of Alistair. If a thread topic is distasteful to me, I just don't read it. I thought this was a pretty easy concept to get. But you can surely tell when the fanboys/girls circle the wagons, and try to shame everyone out of a topic.



Alistair is emo. In fact, if I had the clout, I'd submit a pic of him to Webster's Dictionary, so they could include the photo as part of the definition. For everyone that that offends, Alistair's box of Kleenex is self replinishing, so feel free to help yourselves. If you don't like my opinion of him, I suppose that that's your problem. My opinion isn't likely to change, so there's not sense in trying to convince me that I'm wrong, since I don't feel like my opinion of him is wrong. Nice writing, good tank in a pinch, even if I don't use him, but he sucks as a person, and in my games, that gets him left in camp every time.

[errant_knight]

Personally, I think Alistair makes perfectly valid points and there's certainly a difference between anger and hysteria. It seems that, for many, emotion=weakness, grief=whining, and anger=hysteria. I find that bizarre. If anything, the PC is a bit of a cold fish. I know why that is. It's necessary to allow for different styles of gameplay, but it would be nice if one had the option of letting the PC show more honest emotion, as Alistair does.

[tonydizzle]

StarMars wrote...

StarMars wrote...

Ferelden comes first. Loghain is still a good general.

Probably not from Kings point of view..^^
Sry, but a general who might spontaneously decide, that the orders given him are crap and leave the battlefield does noting other than deserting wich is generally seen as worst quality a soldier can have.
Usually a single soldier deserting does not convict thousands of people to death btw.

Well, he said he made one tactical error. And what I meant is more on his warrior skills than his leadership skills.

It was more than a tactical error... And being a good warrior =/= a good General. Loghain was a complete moron who abandoned his King and tried to blame the only ones that actually stood by the King. He is the epitome of "worst general ever". Regardless of his past, he changed and so that means he becomes a bit shorter and doesn't have to worry about doing his hair anymore .

Modifié par tonydizzle, 17 janvier 2010 - 01:24 .

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Personally, I think Alistair makes perfectly valid points and there's certainly a difference between anger and hysteria. It seems that, for many, emotion=weakness, grief=whining, and anger=hysteria. I find that bizarre. If anything, the PC is a bit of a cold fish. I know why that is. It's necessary to allow for different styles of gameplay, but it would be nice if one had the option of letting the PC show more honest emotion, as Alistair does.

It's not that emotion = weakness.  In fact, you see emotion in other characters who come across as much stronger than Alistair.  It's not what Alistair feels that makes him seem weak -- it's how he expresses himself and lets those feelings guide him.  One thing all the origins have in common is the PC just lost EVERYTHING they held dear (well, maybe not the dwarf commoner so much), their homes, their families; they have undergone a crisis that had they let it do to them what Alistair allowed Ostegar do to him, all of Ferelden would have been swallowed by the blight.

This is not saying Alistair is a bad person, just that one of them had to be strong, and that one ended up being the PC.  Which makes Alistair seem weak.  He is unable to put what he feels aside to take care of what needs taking care of.  Until, of course, he can.  Hardening him and then making him king makes him a far stronger man than any other ending.  If you have any doubts, make Anora solo queen and sacrifice yourself and see what happens to Alistair.

[Costin_Razvan]

Oghren, Sten, Leliana, Zevran,  Wynne and even Loghain show emotion.

Oghren is sad about his wife and even still loves her till the anvil, but then he will kill her, because he knows it might be the best thing to do.

Sten kills a family in cold blood with his bare hands, but realizes perfectly well what he has done, he allow himself to be captured as a result, and does regret what he did.

Leliana cares about every life, yet she still will stand by your side even if you do horrible crimes( hardened especially ) because she knows how important the blight is, ( well save destroying the urn, but that is just being a dick and nothing else )

Zevran is an assasin, a cold blooded one, yet he still won't approve if you leave Vaughn alive or try and slaughter the Dalish.

Wynne will only go against you if you destroy the urn, or well flat out try and destroy the Circle without even trying to find the whole story. She will stand by you even when you do terrible things, because she knows what will happen if the darkspawn are not stopped at all costs.

Loghain regrets what he did/allowed Howe to do after Ostagar, he will state it flatly that he should be the one to die and not you against the Archdemon, and he will follow your commands, even if he doesn't like them at all.

What does Alistair do? The only thing he shows is his own SELFISH needs. He lies to you because he is afraid, even though the reason Loghain even sends assassins after you is because of HIM. He says he doesn't want the throne at all, and when you say you support Anora he is very relieved in fact.

However when the moment comes to make  decision that IS NOT being a dick, a decision every single of your other companions doesn't disagree with, he throws a hissy fit because you WANT TO SPARE THE LIFE OF A MAN, even though he is ALWAYS pissed if you suggest killing people in cold blood. He doesn't even realize what he is doing by killing Loghain, he doesn't realize he is taking the life of a man.

That is why I hate Alistair, every other companion shows they can care more then their own selfish needs, yet Alistair does not,

That being said I never killed him, because I feel a sense of loyalty to even the most backstabing selfish dicks, simply because they followed me for some time.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 janvier 2010 - 06:13 .

[AnniLau]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Alistair is a emo, simply because he DEMANDS the throne for himself AFTER saying for most of the game that he loathes even the idea of it! ( even hardened )

Unhardened Al was relieved when I told him I was supporting Anora.

[StarMars]

tonydizzle wrote...

StarMars wrote...

StarMars wrote...

Ferelden comes first. Loghain is still a good general.

Probably not from Kings point of view..^^
Sry, but a general who might spontaneously decide, that the orders given him are crap and leave the battlefield does noting other than deserting wich is generally seen as worst quality a soldier can have.
Usually a single soldier deserting does not convict thousands of people to death btw.

Well, he said he made one tactical error. And what I meant is more on his warrior skills than his leadership skills.

It was more than a tactical error... And being a good warrior =/= a good General. Loghain was a complete moron who abandoned his King and tried to blame the only ones that actually stood by the King. He is the epitome of "worst general ever". Regardless of his past, he changed and so that means he becomes a bit shorter and doesn't have to worry about doing his hair anymore .

"Good general" is the term used in the game, not just my own description of his warrior skills.

 You said he changed. Why not let him change again, back to being good. He wanted to redeem himself so much that he wanted to become the "sacrifice". 


That's what my good character says anyway. My bad character would prolly choose a different path. 

[errant_knight]

ejoslin wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Personally, I think Alistair makes perfectly valid points and there's certainly a difference between anger and hysteria. It seems that, for many, emotion=weakness, grief=whining, and anger=hysteria. I find that bizarre. If anything, the PC is a bit of a cold fish. I know why that is. It's necessary to allow for different styles of gameplay, but it would be nice if one had the option of letting the PC show more honest emotion, as Alistair does.

It's not that emotion = weakness.  In fact, you see emotion in other characters who come across as much stronger than Alistair.  It's not what Alistair feels that makes him seem weak -- it's how he expresses himself and lets those feelings guide him.  One thing all the origins have in common is the PC just lost EVERYTHING they held dear (well, maybe not the dwarf commoner so much), their homes, their families; they have undergone a crisis that had they let it do to them what Alistair allowed Ostegar do to him, all of Ferelden would have been swallowed by the blight.

This is not saying Alistair is a bad person, just that one of them had to be strong, and that one ended up being the PC.  Which makes Alistair seem weak.  He is unable to put what he feels aside to take care of what needs taking care of.  Until, of course, he can.  Hardening him and then making him king makes him a far stronger man than any other ending.  If you have any doubts, make Anora solo queen and sacrifice yourself and see what happens to Alistair.

Heh, I made Anora queen once, I don't think I can stomach it again. I'm guessing that ends pretty badly. I doubt I'll play through again without hardening Alistair, either. I was initially concerned that doing so would make him callous, but it's more like letting him know it's okay to stand up for himself, which I doubt Eamon or the chantry did. Quite the opposite, I imagine.

[wwwwowwww]

[quote]robertthebard wrote...

[quote]Spuro wrote...

I thought the whole 'emo' phase has moved on already. Especially the people who don't even know the meaning of 'emo.'

Anyway, Alistair is awesome, it was a pleasant surprise to see him finally speak his mind for once at the Landsmeet and not worry about sucking up to others. Just kill Loghain, he deserves it anyway.[/quote]


[quote]robertthebard wrote...Actually, if I could kill Alistair before the Landsmeet, I would.

I'm not telling you I'm the heir apparent to the throne because you'll look at me differently = emo.[/quote]

Really? I didn't know, that wishing to live a normal life without people treating you differently was considered emo, hmmmmm so every gay, ethnic, and religious person who keeps their private lives to themselves is emo?


I'm not telling you I'm the heir apparent to the throne because I don't trust you, but I'll trust you enough to lead us for stopping the Blight.

[quote]robertthebard wrote...Every dialog coming down to crying about Duncan being dead = emo, until you find out who he is, and then he gets to cry about not wanting to be who he is = emo.[/quote]

Wow a friend dies and you cry so your emo huh? 
Not being particularly proud of where your from is also emo? 

My word I guess according to you 99% of our planet is EMO, guess I learn something everyday. Also guess there were some Punk Rock Bards in Ferelden to start that EMO movement. Eh, who knew?