883 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

billions of years of happiness...makes me happy.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Seival wrote...

Yes, many years later, when the Leviathans finally clear the mess the universe will become much better place to live.

Pictures of last years before the Synthesis. Leviathans always find the way, don't you worry.

But please, don't forget the initial price paid for this outcome.

Of course. This is clearly many, many years in the future. And I am glad that there is at least the Leviathans left to enforce nature's will.

As you can see, I'm not trying to invalidate Destroy. Ultimately, the price and the timeframe till the Synthesis is main difference between the endings. And I prefer Controlled Synthesis as the most wise and peaceful decision.

Forced imprisonment in ghettos for dissenters is quite peaceful, I suppose. 

[Seival]

adayaday wrote...

Yes clearly it was the leviathans noble and wise guidance that allowed this galaxy to flourish after the terrible tragedy of the reapers untimely demise.

What do you think would happen to scared and tired people living close to tones of derelict Reapers without Leviathans help? How many new TIMs would appear? How many new Cerberuses would be created? How devastating would be the wars between people who have access to Reaper tech spread all around?

Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never. In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

Modifié par Seival, 24 avril 2013 - 09:37 .

[o Ventus]

Seival wrote...

adayaday wrote...

Yes clearly it was the leviathans noble and wise guidance that allowed this galaxy to flourish after the terrible tragedy of the reapers untimely demise.

What do you think would happen with scared and tired people living close to tones of derelict Reapers without Leviathans help? How many new TIMs will appear? How many new Cerberuses would be created? How devastating would be the wars between people who has access to Reaper tech spread all around?

Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never. In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

I would ask how you have even the slightest idea that any of these things are true.

But then I remember who I'm responding to, and suddenly it all makes sense.

And by that, I mean that they still don't make any sense.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What do the reapers do? They extinguish the apex species of each cycle leaving the younger ones alone, just as they left ours alone the last time they were through.

We are at war with them in ME3.

The Intelligence does not view it as war. "Is fire at war when it burns? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do?" It created the reapers to harvest these apex species like a cleansing fire and restore what it sees as order.

Thus they created us by harvesting the apex species of each cycle. Without them we would not exist.

We are at war with them in ME3.

"The created will always rebel against their creators."

"Clearly organics are more resourceful than we realized."

Natural selection in combination with recognition of the cycle and passing hidden messages to the next cycle was bound eventually to make a species or set of species that could overthrow the Intelligence and its machines.

The Intelligence is doing everything it can to maintain the status quo. It is doing all it can to talk you out of destroying them. It appeals to your lust for individual power, then your lust for creating a utopia of peace and happiness. It gives two choices that allow it and its machines to maintain their supremacy: Control and Synthesis.

"And there will be peace?"
"The cycle will end, the Reapers will cease their harvest, and the civilizations contain within will be connected to all of us."

Wait a minute. Did I miss something? Peace? The cycle will end, but he says nothing about peace. And they will be connected to all of US. Does this mean all of us will be connected to HIM? HE will know what we are thinking, feeling, all the time? Will we know quiet? MAKE IT STOP! PLEASE! MAKE IT STOP! I ... don't know.

Control imprints the Intelligence with your thoughts. Synthesis makes every living thing like the reapers: part flesh and part machine which is why the harvest stops; and the Intelligence still exists, along with the reapers. Make no mistake, Control and Synthesis are reaper solutions.

Destroying them frees the galaxy to progress past them.

IMO, Refusal should have had a non-crucible victory option that required certain conditions be met during the game -- peace between the Geth and Quarians is one of them. Alas that did not happen, and so we are stuck on the consoles with Destroy or just using MEHEM on the PC.

[Steelcan]

Because the Leviathans have a long history of helping "lesser" races.

[adayaday]

Seival wrote...

adayaday wrote...

Yes clearly it was the leviathans noble and wise guidance that allowed this galaxy to flourish after the terrible tragedy of the reapers untimely demise.

What do you think would happen to scared and tired people living close to tones of derelict Reapers without Leviathans help? How many new TIMs would appear? How many new Cerberuses would be created? How devastating would be the wars between people who have access to Reaper tech spread all around?

Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never. In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

Stop imposing your headcanon as facts.nothing of what you said have any real evidance to be true,its all speculation and in the long run is as relevent as IT(which is nonsense).

[Seival]

adayaday wrote...

Seival wrote...

adayaday wrote...

Yes clearly it was the leviathans noble and wise guidance that allowed this galaxy to flourish after the terrible tragedy of the reapers untimely demise.

What do you think would happen to scared and tired people living close to tones of derelict Reapers without Leviathans help? How many new TIMs would appear? How many new Cerberuses would be created? How devastating would be the wars between people who have access to Reaper tech spread all around?

Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never. In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

Stop imposing your headcanon as facts.nothing of what you said have any real evidance to be true,its all speculation and in the long run is as relevent as IT(which is nonsense).

It's not a "headcanon". It's just knowledge of derelict Reaper capabilities, knowledge of Leviathan DLC story, plus flawless logic.

[Steelcan]

"Flawless". Funny coming from you.

[adayaday]

Steelcan wrote...

"Logic". Funny coming from you.

Fixed.

[adayaday]

Seival wrote...

adayaday wrote...

Seival wrote...

adayaday wrote...

Yes clearly it was the leviathans noble and wise guidance that allowed this galaxy to flourish after the terrible tragedy of the reapers untimely demise.

What do you think would happen to scared and tired people living close to tones of derelict Reapers without Leviathans help? How many new TIMs would appear? How many new Cerberuses would be created? How devastating would be the wars between people who have access to Reaper tech spread all around?

Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never. In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

Stop imposing your headcanon as facts.nothing of what you said have any real evidance to be true,its all speculation and in the long run is as relevent as IT(which is nonsense).

It's not a "headcanon". It's just knowledge of derelict Reaper capabilities, knowledge of Leviathan DLC story, plus flawless logic.

I heard indoctrinations theorists using the same lines...

[Astartes Marine]

Seival wrote...
Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR SURE!

Seival wrote...
In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR SURE!


Son of a **** you're thick.  You're worse than Christian Weston Chandler.  <_<

[Argolas]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Seival wrote...
Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR SURE!

Seival wrote...
In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR SURE!


Son of a **** you're thick.  You're worse than Christian Weston Chandler.  <_<

Pay attention. In Mass Effect 2, the derelict reaper indoctrinated the whole Cerberus science team. It was even worse without the Catalyst giving them direction, they all turned insane.

And now the galaxy is full of those things. Great. I think I am starting to understand...

[Steelcan]

We aren't sure what Destroy does to the Reaper superstructure. It's possible that it eliminates the possibility of indoctrination.

[Astartes Marine]

Argolas wrote...
Pay attention. In Mass Effect 2, the derelict reaper indoctrinated the whole Cerberus science team. It was even worse without the Catalyst giving them direction, they all turned insane.

And now the galaxy is full of those things. Great. I think I am starting to understand...

The Reaper in ME2 was still alive, it's power core was still online and it's systems operational even if only minimally.  A Reaper in a coma in essence.

The Reapers in Destroy are dead, dead as dead can be.  No power, no active systems, nothing, completely inert/inactive shells.  The indoctrination effect in ME1 was described as a sort of energy field projected by Sovereign which required Sovereign to be active/alive.

Dead Sovereign fragments haven't indoctrinated anyone, it stands to reason that dead Reapers would field the same results.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 24 avril 2013 - 10:47 .

[adayaday]

Since we are already in speculation mode,you might also say that by choosing destroy you do a"true reaper shutdown/death" and stopping the passive effect a reaper corpse may have.

[adayaday]

Damn Marine and Steelcan beat me to it...

Modifié par adayaday, 24 avril 2013 - 10:48 .

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

adayaday wrote...

Seival wrote...



What do you think would happen to scared and tired people living close to tones of derelict Reapers without Leviathans help? How many new TIMs would appear? How many new Cerberuses would be created? How devastating would be the wars between people who have access to Reaper tech spread all around?

Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never. In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

Stop imposing your headcanon as facts.nothing of what you said have any real evidance to be true,its all speculation and in the long run is as relevent as IT(which is nonsense).

It's not a "headcanon". It's just knowledge of derelict Reaper capabilities, knowledge of Leviathan DLC story, plus flawless logic.

Oh my someone sure is full of himself.  Flawless logic.  Logic has nothing to do with the Leviathans or the endings nor your assertions.  Who says the Leviathans are even capable of dealing with or would want to deal with derelict reapers and that once they are derelict who says that they are not vulnerable?  The derelict ones we've encountered in the story have been kept intact for certain purposes-one was kept that was so that Cerberus could study it and then for part of the story in ME2 and one was taken by the Batarians since the codex does describe the Leviathan of Dis as being a ship.  The Leviathans are not the nicest and brightest things that ever existed.  It's just as possible that with the reapers in shutdown mode they might see them as usable for some purpose.  You don't know any of this for certain.

Amazing that your logic is so flawless about things that are truly unknown and yet when others present you with actual logic and real world analogies that do apply, you act as if they're complete idiots.  You tell people they don't understand real life and yet I am completely certain if you looked in the mirror you'd see just who you are talking about.

There is nothing to suggest that the Leviathans are really interested in helping people at all.  In fact they don't want to until the realization penetrates their thick skulls that they too are in danger from the reapers.  It's just as likely they would love to use the technology they could take from the reapers to make their enthrallment ability better because it certainly is not very good or the reapers never would have been created in the first place.

And as was pointed out to you there is likely a real difference between a reaper that's derelict and still alive but dormant and one that's dead, destroyed, deceased, a goner.  The tech is supposed to be destroyed when the reapers are so their QEC-like indoctrination ability is as well.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 25 avril 2013 - 03:50 .

[3DandBeyond]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

Argolas wrote...



Of course. This is clearly many, many years in the future. And I am glad that there is at least the Leviathans left to enforce nature's will.

As you can see, I'm not trying to invalidate Destroy. Ultimately, the price and the timeframe till the Synthesis is main difference between the endings. And I prefer Controlled Synthesis as the most wise and peaceful decision.

Forced imprisonment in ghettos for dissenters is quite peaceful, I suppose. 

Hey that sounds like a good suggestion for more DLC.  Oh wait of course Seival had the idea first.  I honestly pity him if that suggestion makes sense and sounds good, forcing people into planetary concentration camps or as you said ghettos.  Such things have been tried before when evil ran amok on this planet.  But since it was all meant to impose order and Seival agrees with the kid that order and dictators are great things well what happened wasn't evil, from his point of view.  And he has also said basically that-that neither evil nor good exist, nor do heroes, freedom is bad and other really wonderful things.  I wish that was all in DLC for ME3, er, oops, that was kind of how he interprets th endings as well, so goody.

[3DandBeyond]

Seival wrote...

tonofluck21 wrote...

War machines defines them quite well actually. Me? I just see them as tools. For the Catalyst, for
The Illusive Man, or for Shepard.

Seival you and Wulf really need to stop antagonizing Destroyers, most of them are nice people even if you don't like there choice. I like them because they stand up for what they believe in even though some hate my choice.

In case of Destroy Shepard betrays EDI, Geth, and who knows how many people with vital synthetic implants. Moreover, Shepard kills all people harvested by the Reapers. This is almost as horrible as Refusal. This will left the wounded and terrified people among tons of derelict Reapers, and will left the problem unresolved for a long time.

In case of Synthesis or Control Shepard betrays only her pride, and kills only the desire to have a revenge. She sacrifices herself to prevent a lot of unneeded deaths now, and makes a huge step towards the peace in the nearest and distant future. She resolves the problem eventually.



I have to say that Destroy and Refusal are very strange choices for nice people.

I don't like any of the choices so I'm not defending destroy but those people whose data is now inside the reapers are no longer alive and destroying the reapers would put them out of certain misery if any of their abilities such as emotion and caring still exist.  You really actually think that people would like to live on inside some thing that contains millions of other thoughts as well and that is made of people goo?  If so, then please seek help. :innocent:

And then go and watch the pilot for the original Star Trek about Spock trying to help Captain Pike.  And read the book, Johnny Got His Gun.  You need some serious understanding of human nature before you can even hope to try and insinuate that you understand alien organic peoples' natures.

In control, Shepard may stop wanting revenge him/herself, but it does nothing for the real and obvious revenge others might want.  The idea is totally repugnant.  Again, learn about human nature.  Synthesis, what a crock.  Yeah the game paints it as THE solution but so what.  It's wrong.  I'd like to see what happens when some of that tech that is now integrated with people's, plant's, puppy's DNA goes haywire or degrades.  That ought to be good.  Nice people don't force stuff inside of others without asking their permission especially stuff that somehow changes everything forever in some unknown way and does really a lot of unknown things using tech from who knows where designed by who knows who to do who knows what.  And nice people don't force others to live with or exist with gigantic mass murderers that ate their planet and then made people suits out of their family.

[Xilizhra]

I don't like any of the choices so I'm not defending destroy but those people whose data is now inside the reapers are no longer alive and destroying the reapers would put them out of certain misery if any of their abilities such as emotion and caring still exist. You really actually think that people would like to live on inside some thing that contains millions of other thoughts as well and that is made of people goo? If so, then please seek help.

I think we should ask them and not just make that decision for them. Presuming that we know better than others how they would desire to live or die... that doesn't sit well with me in the slightest.

And then go and watch the pilot for the original Star Trek about Spock trying to help Captain Pike. And read the book, Johnny Got His Gun. You need some serious understanding of human nature before you can even hope to try and insinuate that you understand alien organic peoples' natures.

How would knowing human nature better necessarily lead to better understanding of alien nature?

In control, Shepard may stop wanting revenge him/herself, but it does nothing for the real and obvious revenge others might want. The idea is totally repugnant. Again, learn about human nature. Synthesis, what a crock. Yeah the game paints it as THE solution but so what. It's wrong. I'd like to see what happens when some of that tech that is now integrated with people's, plant's, puppy's DNA goes haywire or degrades. That ought to be good. Nice people don't force stuff inside of others without asking their permission especially stuff that somehow changes everything forever in some unknown way and does really a lot of unknown things using tech from who knows where designed by who knows who to do who knows what. And nice people don't force others to live with or exist with gigantic mass murderers that ate their planet and then made people suits out of their family.

In Control, others may want revenge, but I doubt overly large numbers will act on it. In Synthesis... you just made that up about DNA going "haywire," and even if it did, it'd just be a mutation, which we get plenty of anyway. It's true that Synthesis is a giant unknown quantity... but mass murder is a known quantity so repugnant that I'm willing to try it (or Control).

[AresKeith]

why won't this bad thread burn and rot

[Galbrant]

Seriously? Natura?! I know I'm late on this. Nothing is natural about the Reapers. They are monsters, disgusting abominations, demons, created by an evil idiotic A.I. who was created by big stupid cuttlefishes. Their existence is an insult to those who were killed and harvested to create more of these monsters. The only thing that these monstrosities deserve is complete total destruction.

Modifié par Galbrant, 25 avril 2013 - 04:42 .

[Xilizhra]

Galbrant wrote...

Seriously? Natura?! I know I'm late on this. Nothing is natural about the Reapers. They are monsters, disgusting abominations, demons, created by an evil idiotic A.I. who was created by big stupid cuttlefishes. Their existence is an insult to those who were killed and harvested to create more of these monsters. The only thing that these monstrosities deserve is complete total destruction.

It has competition, but this is possibly the least scientific post regarding the Reapers that I've seen in my life.

[Slayer299]

No, that would be Seival's posts about his "flawless logic" and the natural perfection of the Reapers along with the 'helpful' Leviathans.