883 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

I'm always amazed at the substantive arguments that squeeze out of Seival's threads.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I wouldn't call cyclical genocide a natural disaster. I call it planned evilness.

[Argolas]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wouldn't call cyclical genocide a natural disaster. I call it planned evilness.

Evilness is relative. Nature kills countless people every day. sometimes in very brutal ways. Yet nature also gave us all our lives. Is nature evil?

[Hazegurl]

Argolas wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wouldn't call cyclical genocide a natural disaster. I call it planned evilness.

Evilness is relative. Nature kills countless people every day. sometimes in very brutal ways. Yet nature also gave us all our lives. Is nature evil?

Nature isn't preplanned. It can be predicted and there are other reactions that can cause a natural disaster but there is no intelligent life form plotting and planning its every move.  Reapers and the Catalyst are not and will never be a natural occurance. I can't believe people have to argue what a natural disaster is.

Anyway, he's saying Reapers and their cycle is planned evil. Correct me if I'm wrong in my assumption. AngryFrozen.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This is a Seival thread. Resistance is futile. We are doomed.

My thoughts are: The people in the galaxy are depending upon me to terminate these monsters with extreme prejudice and that's exactly what I'm going to do.

They did not send me on a mission to have themselves turned into half-robots. They did not send me on a mission to have the reapers watch over them and act as a galactic police force.

[Indy_S]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

This is a Seival thread. Resistance is futile. We are doomed.

My thoughts are: The people in the galaxy are depending upon me to terminate these monsters with extreme prejudice and that's exactly what I'm going to do.

They did not send me on a mission to have themselves turned into half-robots. They did not send me on a mission to have the reapers watch over them and act as a galactic police force.

But they did send you on a coffee run and you still haven't delivered.

[Yestare7]

Seival wrote...

It's not a "headcanon". It's just knowledge of derelict Reaper capabilities, knowledge of Leviathan DLC story, plus flawless logic.

Flawless logic...   I think we need more coffee.

Modifié par Yestare7, 25 avril 2013 - 09:02 .

[TheProtheans]

Seival wrote...

Lots of stupid s**t

Good point, but remember there was no solution that solved the Leviathans programming as the solutions for the most part are not prefection of peace and all have a potential for war.
A synthesis solution will likely lead to be a disaster and not store balance, nobody knows what the answer is.

[Applepie_Svk]

Seival´s trollthread ... grabbing the popcorn :3

[Ecrulis]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

This is a Seival thread. Resistance is futile. We are doomed.

My thoughts are: The people in the galaxy are depending upon me to terminate these monsters with extreme prejudice and that's exactly what I'm going to do.

They did not send me on a mission to have themselves turned into half-robots. They did not send me on a mission to have the reapers watch over them and act as a galactic police force.

Pretty much this, plus it's fairly easy to explain why the derelict reaper indoctrinated while the ones in destroy will pose no threat, not like the OP will listen; but such is the nature of a Sevial thread.

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wouldn't call cyclical genocide a natural disaster. I call it planned evilness.

Evilness is relative. Nature kills countless people every day. sometimes in very brutal ways. Yet nature also gave us all our lives. Is nature evil?

Good question. But the answer is also relative

In my opinion Nature is True Neutral... if we use D&D terminology. The Catalyst and the Leviathans are very much True Neutral creatures.

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

Seival wrote...
Will galactic civilization survive dead Reapers presence without Leviathans help?... Never.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR SURE!

Seival wrote...
In case of Destroy galactic civilization is doomed without Leviathans help.

YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS FOR SURE!


Son of a **** you're thick.  You're worse than Christian Weston Chandler.  <_<

Pay attention. In Mass Effect 2, the derelict reaper indoctrinated the whole Cerberus science team. It was even worse without the Catalyst giving them direction, they all turned insane.

And now the galaxy is full of those things. Great. I think I am starting to understand...

BioWare did the right thing when introduced Leviathans. They are not just very interesting part of the lore. Leviathans make Destroy and Refusal not too hopeless. Also, they make Control and Synthesis much more interesting.

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

BioWare did the right thing when introduced Leviathans. They are not just very interesting part of the lore. Leviathans make Destroy and Refusal not too hopeless. Also, they make Control and Synthesis much more interesting.

It's just a shame they are DLC content so many players may miss them. It feels as if they had cut TIM out of ME2 and briefed Shepard indirectly through Miranda. It would still have worked somehow, but you would not be able to understand the whole context.

[robertthebard]

Seival wrote...

Argolas wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wouldn't call cyclical genocide a natural disaster. I call it planned evilness.

Evilness is relative. Nature kills countless people every day. sometimes in very brutal ways. Yet nature also gave us all our lives. Is nature evil?

Good question. But the answer is also relative

In my opinion Nature is True Neutral... if we use D&D terminology. The Catalyst and the Leviathans are very much True Neutral creatures.

Really?  Because I view the Leviathans as more Lawful Evil with Chaotic Stupid tendencies.  They subjugated the known galaxy for tribute.  In layman's terms, the races of the galaxy were their slaves.  In order to solve a problem that they observed with organics building synthetics that then wiped them out, they invented a synthetic, that then wiped them out.  I use the first example as supporting Lawful Evil, since we have no example of them being cruel to their slaves, but slaves are slaves.  The second is my example for Chaotic Stupid.  I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain that, I hope. 

As far as the Kid goes, it is a product of it's environment.  It was invented to solve a problem, this is the core of it's programing, and like any computer, it is incapable of thinking outside it's own little box.  This is why it cannot accept that the problem may not be as prevalent as it is programed to believe.  For Leviathans, it was issue because "Tribute does not flow from a dead race".  That's all we really know, for certain, the rest is speculation.  Did the geth rebel against the Quarians?  In a manner of speaking, I suppose they did, howver, being half right isn't being right, since the geth didn't wipe out the Quarians and then start a galactic scale war of conquest.  This is, however, the premise the Kid is working from, that synthetics will wipe out all organics.  The geth didn't even wipe out their own creators, even though it was well within their power to do so in the Morning War.  So, without Reaper interference, it's likely the geth would have stayed behind the veil.  Of course, we have no way to verify this since, you know Sovereign.

[Ecrulis]

robertthebard wrote...

Seival wrote...

Argolas wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I wouldn't call cyclical genocide a natural disaster. I call it planned evilness.

Evilness is relative. Nature kills countless people every day. sometimes in very brutal ways. Yet nature also gave us all our lives. Is nature evil?

Good question. But the answer is also relative

In my opinion Nature is True Neutral... if we use D&D terminology. The Catalyst and the Leviathans are very much True Neutral creatures.

Really?  Because I view the Leviathans as more Lawful Evil with Chaotic Stupid tendencies.  They subjugated the known galaxy for tribute.  In layman's terms, the races of the galaxy were their slaves.  In order to solve a problem that they observed with organics building synthetics that then wiped them out, they invented a synthetic, that then wiped them out.  I use the first example as supporting Lawful Evil, since we have no example of them being cruel to their slaves, but slaves are slaves.  The second is my example for Chaotic Stupid.  I'm pretty sure I don't have to explain that, I hope. 

As far as the Kid goes, it is a product of it's environment.  It was invented to solve a problem, this is the core of it's programing, and like any computer, it is incapable of thinking outside it's own little box.  This is why it cannot accept that the problem may not be as prevalent as it is programed to believe.  For Leviathans, it was issue because "Tribute does not flow from a dead race".  That's all we really know, for certain, the rest is speculation.  Did the geth rebel against the Quarians?  In a manner of speaking, I suppose they did, howver, being half right isn't being right, since the geth didn't wipe out the Quarians and then start a galactic scale war of conquest.  This is, however, the premise the Kid is working from, that synthetics will wipe out all organics.  The geth didn't even wipe out their own creators, even though it was well within their power to do so in the Morning War.  So, without Reaper interference, it's likely the geth would have stayed behind the veil.  Of course, we have no way to verify this since, you know Sovereign.

This is actually why I like Leviathan, seeing how completely egotistical and idiotic the Leviathans are makes it even easier to see the catalysts "problem" as complete nonsense.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Oh Seival you so crazy indoctrinated!

You and Wulfie are always such entertaining reads.

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

Seival wrote...

BioWare did the right thing when introduced Leviathans. They are not just very interesting part of the lore. Leviathans make Destroy and Refusal not too hopeless. Also, they make Control and Synthesis much more interesting.

It's just a shame they are DLC content so many players may miss them. It feels as if they had cut TIM out of ME2 and briefed Shepard indirectly through Miranda. It would still have worked somehow, but you would not be able to understand the whole context.

Well, according to BioWare, Leviathan is their best selling DLC for ME Trilogy (not sure if Citadel DLC was sold better). So, I think most fans already know that part of the lore.

[Wynterdust]

I wonder... do you approve of the genophage as well then?
Considering it altered every cell in every krogan, without them knowing, in order to stop an "inevitable war".
They were also uplifted previously before and it resulted in chaos. What guarantee is it that synthesis would not do the same? If synthesis is supposed to be an inevitable and natural evolution then surely the best thing to do is let nature run its course. Fast forwarding evolution is not natural. Again I point to the krogan after the salarians uplifted them...things did not go well.

[BSpud]

"avatar of evolution"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Astartes Marine]

Wynterdust wrote...

I wonder... do you approve of the genophage as well then?
Considering it altered every cell in every krogan, without them knowing, in order to stop an "inevitable war".
They were also uplifted previously before and it resulted in chaos. What guarantee is it that synthesis would not do the same? If synthesis is supposed to be an inevitable and natural evolution then surely the best thing to do is let nature run its course. Fast forwarding evolution is not natural. Again I point to the krogan after the salarians uplifted them...things did not go well.

The problem is that fast tracking it leaves you with the upgrade, but not the experience in getting there nor the responsibility of earning it. 

It's like two kids, one works for money and appreciates it and understands the hard work that went into the reward and will undoubtedly have learned valuable lessons along the way, the other is simply given the money and learns nothing, has no real appreciation for what was given.

If synthesis was a slow, gradual change over generations then maybe I could start to...I don't know, like it?  As it is it's just a magic button that in my opinion fixes things in the short term, but leaves open the door for much larger problems than even the Krogan Rebellions in the long term.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 25 avril 2013 - 09:46 .

[BSpud]

drayfish wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

FFS. You actually worship the killbots.

Look at what you've done, BioWare. Proud?

Truly.  I legitimately do wonder that.

Are Bioware happy to see that their once hopeful fiction has now become a grim case study for the 'greater goods' of genocide, eugenics and totalitarian rule?

Over the past few months I cannot count the number of unnerving threads and terrifying posts outright celebrating these actions.  Zealots for galactic dictatorships (because someone has to have that power, so it may as well be me, right?); fanatics for imposed, involuntary 'evolution' (like our harbinger of perfection, Seival here); fist-pumping supporters of selected racial slaughter (it's them or us, and they can't be trusted anyway! EDI was just a sex-bot! etc.) 

It's... disheartening.  And I really don't get what profit comes from knowing which hate crime players like better anyway.

One day I would really like to hear a writer explain what the hell was the point of all that without hiding behind asinine drivel about player agency. 

To me, headlocking your audience into three acts of horror, and then stepping back to let them squabble over which was 'best' has got to be the most infantile, irresponsible and self-destructive thing I can ever imagine doing to a fiction and its fanbase.

You end up with (what I hope is intentional) nonsense like this (again courtesy of Seival):



And lest we forget: http://social.biowar...ndex/14861085/1

Drayfish kickin' ass, as always.

[xlegionx]

Oh, a Seival thread. This should be interesting.

Synthesis is not inevitable. Why would the Leviathans seek to impose Synthesis on the galaxy? With such few numbers of their own, could they even if they wanted to? Is the Citadel even capable of activating Synthesis in its damaged/repaired state? there are too many ifs with that situation that you are filling in with your own un-proved assumptions to figure out a plausible answer.

[TheRealJayDee]

Seival wrote...

In my opinion Nature is True Neutral... if we use D&D terminology. The Catalyst and the Leviathans are very much True Neutral creatures.

"Every so and so years I have my army of unstoppable killing machines start an unprovoked war against every advanced being in existence, with the explicit intent of slaughtering them all. Except for the select few we 'preserve' by turning them into goo to build more killing machines, of course. I totally believe I have legitimate reasons for doing all that over and over again for all eternity to come."

"We're awesome, and we want everyone to acknowledge just how incredibly great we are - therefore we enslave their minds, so they can worship us and pay us tribute."

Yeah, if that doesn't sound completely like typical examples of D&D True Neutral. Definitely not a trace of D&D Evil alignment hidden in there somewhere...!

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 26 avril 2013 - 02:14 .

[Yestare7]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Seival wrote...

In my opinion Nature is True Neutral... if we use D&D terminology. The Catalyst and the Leviathans are very much True Neutral creatures.

"Every so and so years I have my army of unstoppable killing machines start an unprovoked war against every advanced being in existence, with the explicit intent of slaughtering them all. Except for the select few we 'preserve' by turning them into goo to build more killing machines, of course. I totally believe I have legitimate reasons for doing all that over and over again for all eternity to come."

...the Epitome, the Mount Everest of EVIL SERIOUS BAD EVIL

How can you not destroy that? :blink:

Modifié par Yestare7, 26 avril 2013 - 07:15 .

[Indy_S]

Yestare7 wrote...

... Sounds very chaotic to me

It's too structured and rules-bound for that. It's lawful evil.