883 réponses à ce sujet

[Yestare7]

We agree it's evil!!

[Humakt83]

The Reapers aren't natural. End of story.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yestare7 wrote...


We agree it's evil!!

No! Seival undestands the truth of the universe because of extensive indoctrination enlightenment!


Seival and the Wulf are our the Reapers chosen figureheads!

One day the indoctrination will consume you all you will all be truly enlightened like Seival and the Wulf, and then the ascension can begin!!!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 26 avril 2013 - 07:23 .

[Yestare7]

Hi Cheesecake, glad you are here!



Y

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Yestare7 wrote...


Hi Cheesecake, glad you are here!



Y

It's a Seival "Happy happy fun indoctrination" thread.

How could I resist?

[M Hedonist]

Giant robot squids killing people and turning some of them into robot zombies and some into genetic paste to turn them into more robot squids is about the least natural thing I can think of.

[Seival]

xlegionx wrote...

Oh, a Seival thread. This should be interesting.

Synthesis is not inevitable. Why would the Leviathans seek to impose Synthesis on the galaxy? With such few numbers of their own, could they even if they wanted to? Is the Citadel even capable of activating Synthesis in its damaged/repaired state? there are too many ifs with that situation that you are filling in with your own un-proved assumptions to figure out a plausible answer.

Leviathans obviously have stable population. Why do I think so? They survived all those countless Cycles, which is impossible without stable population. Leviathan said they controlled some lesser races for their own needs during all those Cycles, which is also impossible without stable population. Once Reaper threat is over - Leviathans will recover to full strength fast enough.

Leviathan said they observe each Cycle very carefully. They will learn everything about Synthesis and Crucible's purpose. It's even quite possible that Crucible was Leviathans' idea. They could invent it (who else could?) and built the first one using thralls. Makes sense... Anyway, we can state that Leviathans already know (or about to know) Synthesis concept, and the way to achieve it.

Destroy slides show us peace and rebuilt Citadel - both impossible in universe full of derelict Reapers and primitive survivors. Only Leviathans can help galactic civilization. As before, Leviathans will remain above lesser races' concerns. They will rule the galaxy, and no one will even notice that. And Synthesis beginning will be just a matter of time. It is inevitable, even in case of Destroy.



...I believe that was initial plan - to make a sequel based on Synthesized universe. You think pro-Synthesis ending bias was just for show? Inevitable Synthesis is the only way to make a sequel without canonizing one of ways to stop the Reapers. No inevitable Synthesis = no successful sequel, I'm afraid. If BioWare is not going to make Synthesis inevitable, then we will get prequel or "mediquel" no matter what the most fans asked for.

Modifié par Seival, 26 avril 2013 - 09:41 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Oh Seival you so crazy.

We should really just get you and Wulfie together.

You two would be an adorable crazy couple!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 26 avril 2013 - 09:43 .

[Seival]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Oh Seival you so crazy.

We should really just get you and Wulfie together.

You two would be an adorable crazy couple!

Believe me, if you will try to think about inevitable Synthesis without unneeded emotions - you will like the idea very much.

In case of Destroy this will not be your Shepard's choice, because Synthesis will happen long after her/his death.

Modifié par Seival, 26 avril 2013 - 09:54 .

[Wynterdust]

The thralldom is strong with this one.

I can't copy and paste since I am currently typing via xbox but would like to ask my question from the last page to Sei again. Curious.

[Wayning_Star]

Synthesis makes all things MEU 'natural', that's the gist of it. You either destroy all traces of the Leviathan technology, including Leviathan, who rely on it for their apexness. Their thralls will eventually start the cycle again, or one like it or worse, a complete extinction cycle for all organic intelligence.

That is the base plot. Either fight them, wipe them completely out, their tech as well, or join them to control their technology, or at least become aware enough to understand the meaning of their existence and how that effects you in the MEU.

Destroy just don't have the oomph to complete the rationale. Control is close, but the trials of Leviathan remains, extreme strife is eventual, unless you are a willing thrall, as control is similar to that.

Synthesis converts the basis of it all via the left out versions of 'life' and their resultant interaction in the MEU. The organic life forms reliant upon synthetics, will demand their presence. This is based on their existence in the first place. We need them, they don't need us.

Why don't synthetic life forms need organic life forms? Good question, eh?

[Seival]

Wynterdust wrote...

I wonder... do you approve of the genophage as well then?
Considering it altered every cell in every krogan, without them knowing, in order to stop an "inevitable war".
They were also uplifted previously before and it resulted in chaos. What guarantee is it that synthesis would not do the same? If synthesis is supposed to be an inevitable and natural evolution then surely the best thing to do is let nature run its course. Fast forwarding evolution is not natural. Again I point to the krogan after the salarians uplifted them...things did not go well.

Genophage was a selective penalty - it restricted particular race's capabilities.

Synthesis is the global improvement - it boosts both organics and synthetics capabilities, and make them closer to each other physically and mentally (especially mentally).

Genophage and Synthesis are not comparable. And to answer your question - I disprove Genophage - my Shepard cured it.

[Wynterdust]

Hmm.. okay fair enough.
What of the second part though? It improves life as you say but the salarians did similar to the krogan who ended up destroying half their planet because they werent ready. There is no way of knowing the same wont happen with synthesis. The slides at the end show peace but what of the long term?

[adayaday]

Unneeded emotion?

[Wayning_Star]

Wynterdust wrote...

Hmm.. okay fair enough.
What of the second part though? It improves life as you say but the salarians did similar to the krogan who ended up destroying half their planet because they werent ready. There is no way of knowing the same wont happen with synthesis. The slides at the end show peace but what of the long term?

that's where the synthetics 'gets back to nature' thing comes in. Really tho, there is never any guarantee with evolution, only the results. It's all intellectual, as noted.

Emotion is a key element in survival, probably why the geth asks about 'soul'. Why else would the geth be interested in wearing sheps armor? Or Edi becoming more attached, or wishing to, Joker and vis a vis?

There would definitively be "peace" if all intelligence were extinct, but that would suck if anyone were around to know it?

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 26 avril 2013 - 10:25 .

[Seival]

Wynterdust wrote...

Hmm.. okay fair enough.
What of the second part though? It improves life as you say but the salarians did similar to the krogan who ended up destroying half their planet because they werent ready. There is no way of knowing the same wont happen with synthesis. The slides at the end show peace but what of the long term?

I believe the Synthesis slides show both short-term and long-term outcomes, just like Control and Destroy slides. What the point of epilogue if it doesn't show outcome? BioWare did EC with all those epilogues for the reason.

Plus we have Stargazer scene.

More details? I hope BioWare will provide us with more details about the Synthesis in new ME game. Just imagine the possibilities of storytelling and gameplay in Synthesized universe. Such game would be unique and awesome. Something we've never seen before.

Modifié par Seival, 26 avril 2013 - 10:34 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Seival wrote...
Synthesized universe. Such game would be unique and awesome. Something we've never seen before.

Just paint it green and add spaceships

[AresKeith]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...
Synthesized universe. Such game would be unique and awesome. Something we've never seen before.

Just paint it green and add spaceships

He never asked for this

[Seival]

Greylycantrope wrote...


Just paint it green and add spaceships

I don't think it will be something like that.

[Wynterdust]

Hmm..an interesting perspective.
The only problem really is there is very little information as to how it alters everything. I can understand the synthetic side to it but what does it do to organics?
Does it alter the way they think? For example: Would Wreav still be the same or would he suddenly become peaceful? If it changes how everyone thinks that is destroying their free will and individuality. Without individuality, free will or emotion then one is not truly alive. Just a tranquil husk, a machine in other words. I cannot speak for all but the vast majority of people would not want that. It would be ethically difficult to force that onto people. In theory it would be nice to have peace but would anyone know any better if they had no emotion.

[Seival]

Wynterdust wrote...

Hmm..an interesting perspective.
The only problem really is there is very little information as to how it alters everything. I can understand the synthetic side to it but what does it do to organics?
Does it alter the way they think? For example: Would Wreav still be the same or would he suddenly become peaceful? If it changes how everyone thinks that is destroying their free will and individuality. Without individuality, free will or emotion then one is not truly alive. Just a tranquil husk, a machine in other words. I cannot speak for all but the vast majority of people would not want that. It would be ethically difficult to force that onto people. In theory it would be nice to have peace but would anyone know any better if they had no emotion.

Synthesis epilogue shows that synthetics became more... hmm animated (remember EDI's human-like emotions?). Synthesis means that synthetics gain full understanding of organic life, as if they were organics themselves. Organics at their turn gain some physical synthetic capabilities without need to have implants. This establish direct connection between organics and synthetics as well, as between different organics. They all become very interrelated to each other... Closer, to be more correct. Closer on all possible levels. Smarter. Stronger. The persistent community, as if they all are the same race. And still keeping some of their own unique properties.

Modifié par Seival, 26 avril 2013 - 11:17 .

[Argolas]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Seival wrote...
Synthesized universe. Such game would be unique and awesome. Something we've never seen before.

*snip*

Just paint it green and add spaceships

Since I am really bored right now...

[xlegionx]

Seival wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

Oh, a Seival thread. This should be interesting.

Synthesis is not inevitable. Why would the Leviathans seek to impose Synthesis on the galaxy? With such few numbers of their own, could they even if they wanted to? Is the Citadel even capable of activating Synthesis in its damaged/repaired state? there are too many ifs with that situation that you are filling in with your own un-proved assumptions to figure out a plausible answer.

Leviathans obviously have stable population. Why do I think so? They survived all those countless Cycles, which is impossible without stable population. Leviathan said they controlled some lesser races for their own needs during all those Cycles, which is also impossible without stable population. Once Reaper threat is over - Leviathans will recover to full strength fast enough.

Leviathan said they observe each Cycle very carefully. They will learn everything about Synthesis and Crucible's purpose. It's even quite possible that Crucible was Leviathans' idea. They could invent it (who else could?) and built the first one using thralls. Makes sense... Anyway, we can state that Leviathans already know (or about to know) Synthesis concept, and the way to achieve it.

Destroy slides show us peace and rebuilt Citadel - both impossible in universe full of derelict Reapers and primitive survivors. Only Leviathans can help galactic civilization. As before, Leviathans will remain above lesser races' concerns. They will rule the galaxy, and no one will even notice that. And Synthesis beginning will be just a matter of time. It is inevitable, even in case of Destroy.



...I believe that was initial plan - to make a sequel based on Synthesized universe. You think pro-Synthesis ending bias was just for show? Inevitable Synthesis is the only way to make a sequel without canonizing one of ways to stop the Reapers. No inevitable Synthesis = no successful sequel, I'm afraid. If BioWare is not going to make Synthesis inevitable, then we will get prequel or "mediquel" no matter what the most fans asked for.

I doubt that Bioware is never doing a sequel, but they would never retcon to force the least-liked option of the core fanbase onto the entire game. The Citadel DLC is proof enough that they would now prefer to avoid rocking the boat. And even then, I'm sure they could make an effective sequel without canonizing an abomination

As it has been stated before in this thread, the derelict Reapers in Destroy would not be an issue. Pieces of Sovereign are all around the Citadel, yet there are not throngs of indoctrinated agents, just a select few. The only reason the derelict Reaper in ME2 indoctrinated the scientists was because its mass effect core was still in contact, therefore it wasn't truly dead. the Reapers in Destroy are 100% destroyed, no chance for indoctrination from the wreckage.

And the survivors are not primitive, at least not with high EMS Destroy (which is probably 80-90% of all Destroy endings). In a High EMS ending, Destroy only targets Reaper Tech, so only the Reapers, the mass relay system (citadel included), the geth (reaper code), and EDI (made w/ fragments from Sovereign) are affected. THis is how Shepard is able to survive.

As for the Leviathans, they explicitly stated that the Crucible's outxome is unknown. Therefore, they do not know of Synthesis, nor have any opinions on it. And why would they want to improve other species? they already consider themselves the apex race, so they wouldn't want anyone getting too close to their mantle. even their ability to learn of it is limited, As one of the entities that knew of it (The Catalyst) is gone in Destroy) and they were only able to enter Shepard's mind when they came into direct proximity of their own body. No one else knows about Synthesis (you *could* speculate that Shepard shared information about Synthesis, but speculation is all that it is)

As for their population size, we have extremely little info about their physiology. they could live for millions of years at a time. They could be like Fallout's Super Mutants and be biologically immortal, immune to death by natural causes. We just don't know. You are making way too many guesses, but treating them as fact to support your opinions

[Wynterdust]

With the epilogue though we only hear about it from EDI, who has no prior knowledge on what life is. What may seem like life to her might not to an organic. Should the epilogue have been explained by an organic character it would have given a better insight. As it stands we only hear about it from an AI and a synthetic and neither have experienced being alive so they couldn't know if it truly made them alive.

That description sounds a lot like a loss of individuality and a lot like what the geth were like prior to gaining the reaper code. Sure they would keep unique racial properties but their individual properties, their mind, the way they see things is altered. Essentially, their individuality is gone. This comes down to ones own description of what being "alive" is but personally I see it that without individuality or emotion, one isn't truly alive. It might be the stem of many peoples problem with synthesis, it is effectively forcing one viewpoint onto everyone without their consent. It is ethically and morally difficult as everyone has a right to their own viewpoint.