Aller au contenu

Photo

The most dire title the Reapers deserve is "Terrible Natural Disaster".


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
883 réponses à ce sujet

#526
Seival

Seival
  • Members
  • 5 294 messages

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...


Say that to the small part of Nazara:


That doesn't mean it's gonna indoctrinate them, and Ann was talking about the Orb derp


EDI's question was about the part of Nazara, and Ann's answer was also about the part of Nazara. She started to talk about the orb when she mentioned it as "artifact".


Yes EDI's question was about the piece of the Reaper, they shielded it as a precaution but that doesn't mean it was gonna indoctrinate

but Ann saying she's already Indoctrinated was referring to the orb


According to you, they shielded the part of Nazara just for fun. Let them un-shield it and see what happens next. One more Sanctuary, but faster, and on the Citadel. Nice plan.

I know that Ann saying she's already indoctrinated was referring to the orb. But we are talking about Nazara's part, not about the orb.

Modifié par Seival, 30 avril 2013 - 01:02 .


#527
xlegionx

xlegionx
  • Members
  • 496 messages

Seival wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

Seival wrote...

xlegionx wrote...

Seival wrote...

xlegionx wrote...



Stop with the headcanon. the idea of indoctrination came from the Leviathan's abilities. the Reaper's indoctrination abilities are, however, a mixture of ultra- and infrasound signals and an electro-magnetic field the Reapers emit. power is therefore required

Proof:masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Indoctrination 


Say that to the small part of Nazara:


You also seem to haved skipped my last post. the shielding is called a precaution. such things exist the world over. people taking unnecessary precautions in such potentially dangerous situations


And as I told before, Sanctuary, for example, proves that the precautions were actually very necessary.

Well, Sanctuary also proves that there is no 100% shielding against indoctrination. Leviathan DLC also proves that. It's only a matter of time and distance. Considering millions of derelict Reapers all around, galactic civilization is in big trouble without Leviathans' help.


How does Sanctuary prove that shielding doesn't work? As I recall, they were delibrately turing people into husks, and the Cerberus agents conducting the experiments likely already had Reaper implants or some level of indoctrination from previous exposure to Reaper indoctrination devices


Do you really believe that personnel didn't try to protect themselves in the process (long before or during Sanctuary events)? We all know what happens to the ones who tries to experiment with Reaper tech. Shielded or not. And it doesn't matter if that Reaper tech is alive or dead. It's just a matter of time.

How are you going to prevent expeditions inside the derelict Reapers?
How are you going to stop all those new "TIM"s that will appear after Destroy in really great numbers?
How can you clean this mess without Leviathans help?


To that first paragraph, the people on the outside of Sanctuary didn't know what was going on. there is an audio log of a guy "paying his dues" at the desk job, then getting into Sanctuary himself. the people who were working on the experiments were Cerberus scientists and likely already indoctrinated

So for that first question, no I can't prevent expeditions, but I won't need to because no indoctrination signal is being emitted.

for the second question, what new Illusive Men? there has been no indication from Bioware that post-Destroy that there are large anti-alien sentiments among humans, which would what would likely be the primary reason for new "TIMs" to pop up.

And for that last one, what mess? the only things that need to be fixed are the relays and the Citadel, which isn't too hard. Destro epilogue shows that they are rebuilt, and the EC was released  prior to Leviathan

#528
Grand Admiral Cheesecake

Grand Admiral Cheesecake
  • Members
  • 5 704 messages

Argolas wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

How can you not see the beauty of the Seival's message? s/he only wants to help you ascend!



Seriously though listen to yourself Seival! You're indoctrinated! They own you now!



Easy there, it's not how you think. Just calm down, relax and watch a cool TV show about our hero.


Not gonna lie, I'd watch the crap out of that just to riff on it.

#529
AresKeith

AresKeith
  • Members
  • 34 128 messages

Seival wrote...

According to you, they shielded the part of Nazara just for fun. Let them un-shield it and see what happens next. One more Sanctuary, but faster, and on the Citadel. Nice plan.

I know that Ann saying she's already indoctrinated was referring to the orb. But we are talking about Nazara's part, not about the orb.


^ This is being thick-headed at its best

1. Where in the hell did I saw they did it for fun? I said they shielded it as a precaution because they don't know what would happen, but that doesn't mean its gonna indoctrinate them if its un-shielded

Sovereign is dead so he can't indoctrinate anyone

2
. Then stop claiming Sovereign indoctrinated people in Leviathan

You are literally lose in your headcanon and obsession with the Reapers

#530
sH0tgUn jUliA

sH0tgUn jUliA
  • Members
  • 16 812 messages

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

According to you, they shielded the part of Nazara just for fun. Let them un-shield it and see what happens next. One more Sanctuary, but faster, and on the Citadel. Nice plan.

I know that Ann saying she's already indoctrinated was referring to the orb. But we are talking about Nazara's part, not about the orb.


^ This is being thick-headed at its best

1. Where in the hell did I saw they did it for fun? I said they shielded it as a precaution because they don't know what would happen, but that doesn't mean its gonna indoctrinate them if its un-shielded

Sovereign is dead so he can't indoctrinate anyone

2
. Then stop claiming Sovereign indoctrinated people in Leviathan

You are literally lose in your headcanon and obsession with the Reapers


You're actually arguing with Seival? You need to sit back. Have a cookie. Listen to 10 minutes of Mozart to raise your IQ back up to its normal level. Everything will be just fine in the morning. Don't worry. You'll see.

#531
AresKeith

AresKeith
  • Members
  • 34 128 messages

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

According to you, they shielded the part of Nazara just for fun. Let them un-shield it and see what happens next. One more Sanctuary, but faster, and on the Citadel. Nice plan.

I know that Ann saying she's already indoctrinated was referring to the orb. But we are talking about Nazara's part, not about the orb.


^ This is being thick-headed at its best

1. Where in the hell did I saw they did it for fun? I said they shielded it as a precaution because they don't know what would happen, but that doesn't mean its gonna indoctrinate them if its un-shielded

Sovereign is dead so he can't indoctrinate anyone

2
. Then stop claiming Sovereign indoctrinated people in Leviathan

You are literally lose in your headcanon and obsession with the Reapers


You're actually arguing with Seival? You need to sit back. Have a cookie. Listen to 10 minutes of Mozart to raise your IQ back up to its normal level. Everything will be just fine in the morning. Don't worry. You'll see.


I'm immune to his IQ killing power

But between him and Auld Wulf it needs to stop now

#532
robertthebard

robertthebard
  • Members
  • 6 108 messages

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

The shielding is necessary, unless proved otherwise. There are several proves of necessary shielding, and no proves of unnecessary shielding.


The shielding is only a precaution nothing more

Yep, and when I asked for some of those proofs, I got:  This exchange is over...Image IPBImage IPB

#533
Reptilian Rob

Reptilian Rob
  • Members
  • 5 964 messages

Seival wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Seival wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Seival wrote...

So many emotions and zero constructivity. I give you strong evidence, but you only bark in reply... as any hater who hates the ones who actually like the story and the ending concept.

I suppose the only ending you can accept is Destroy. But this thread make you doubt about that choice. After realizing that Destroy is much more complicated than you thought, you panicked. And your hate here is some kind of twisted defence reaction.

Stop panicking, please. Panic will never help you to understand something.

You mean like calling people stupid for insisting on proof of something you claim, despite your not providing the proof?  I asked for one thing, something which you swear should be simple to understand, and yet, other than the aforementioned assault on my intelligence, you have yet to provide it.  In case it's not clear, since you decided to make it personal, I'm not going to stop insisting that you support your claims with proof, instead of "because I believe that's what's going to happen".

So, where's my video of Sovereign indoctrinating anyone in Leviathan?


 - We both know that derelict Reaper can indoctrinate.
 - I gave you a prof that even small piece of a Reaper is too dangerous to be left unshielded.
 - If you really played Leviathan DLC, then you should know that indoctrination is property of organic part of a Reaper.
 - ME2 shows you that mass effect core only held derelict Reaper on orbit, and had nothing to do with indoctrination itself.
 - Arrival and Sanctuary show that it's just a matter of time when any Reaper device will influence you, if left unshielded.

You just refuse to see the facts. And you can't prove that I'm wrong. All you said is that "Reaper tech can't indoctrinate without power source", and "Destroy eliminates Reaper tech completely", said without any evidence to prove that. You don't wanna realize that Destroy is much more complicated than you initially thought.

You clearly want to win in the end. But you can't. You can only accept the enemy's rules and keep galactic civilization in game... or refuse which is also the act of accepting enemy's rules, because Cycles will continue. The ultimate winners are only Leviathans. In any ending... Destroy doesn't make you a winner. It only makes you the one who want revenge at any cost, even if the cost is millions of deaths and centuries of suffering for the survivors.

It's funny, because the above is just a fever dream the OP made up. 

Destroy is destroy, it will kill all synthetic life. Unless you don't believe the Catalyst, whom you seem to be a big fan of...


Destroy kills all synthetic life indeed. And in case you didn't notice, I told about threat that comes from dead Reapers. Threat that was proven by the lore itself, and proven not just once.

If by "threat" you mean ten billion tons of scrap metal then yes, they are still a threat.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 30 avril 2013 - 04:41 .


#534
Astartes Marine

Astartes Marine
  • Members
  • 1 615 messages

Reptilian Rob wrote...
If by "threat" you mean ten billion tons of scrap metal then yes, they are still a threat.

All those dead Reaper hulls in space would be quite the navigational hazard... :huh:

Imagine tons of FTL jumps ending like this.  Yikes.

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 30 avril 2013 - 04:54 .


#535
Exeider

Exeider
  • Members
  • 590 messages

Seival wrote...

The Reapers are not war machines, they are harvesters.
The Catalyst is not a dictator, it is the avatar of evolution.

The Cycled Harvests were so rare, so specific, and so inevitable that they could be called a part of natural life-and-death circle. With each new Cycle the Catalyst was closer and closer to the ideal solution which it was created to find.

Nature itself consumes lives. For what? Just to create new ones. A lot of them. Better then the previous ones. The Cycled Harvests were not much different, and were only temporary. Once the ideal solution was found and proved to be valid, it was just a matter of time before the idea of that solution comes true.

The Reapers were never interested in war. They were created as keepers of Nature balance. Even Leviathans, who were the first target themselves admitted that. The Catalyst and the Reapers did a lot of horrible things, but eventually they made the ideal solution possible. Let's not forget about that.

...Also, let's not forget one obvious thing: there are only two main choices in the end - apply Synthesis now, or delay it for some time by different means.



...Yeah, I am not exactly sure where to begin, but trying to justify as holocaust as a natural thing and placing the blame on the people of the galaxy for having the tamarity to try and live. That's just WOW!

I mean seriously, that is like blaming the Jews for the holocaust, that because they had the tamarity to try and escape, resist and live, is why the holocaust took so long and got so bloody. If only they just laid down and died would it have been easier.

Sorry I don't support that view. The reapers are wrong, Why? Because they are executing the will of a being who seeks to control life for it's own purpose, and that by it's very definition is wrong, it doesn't matter the time scale or the physical scale.

Reapings are not natural by any means, they are precipiated by conscious, sapient beings, they in fact upset the natural order.

Nature takes no side, it is simply a force, it changes the environment and those that can, adapt those that can't, die. It does not pick and choose, which is EXACTLY what they do and by the OPs own addmission they do.

The fact that they pick and choose whom they reap is a indicator of premeditation. The Reapers are not the flood of Noah's Ark, they do not kill indiscriminately, they choose their targets, they choose WHEN to reap. They willfully engage in acts of killing, maiming and mutilation, this my friends is what many would define as evil.

the Catalyst at it's very core is insane, insane because it A) Feels that it's purpose is to decide what's best for the rest of us B) Will go to extreme lengths to do so and C) Feels that it has the authority to take such actions.

the Catalyst's closest analogue in recent science fiction would be the same as the Vorlons and the Shadows from B5. Beings older then old, whom after so many eons felt it was their place to "guide" the children of the Galaxy. And one represented authooritarianism while the other represented guided chaos, or natural selection.

The Vorlons felt they had the right to change, modify and or genetically program the people of the galaxy to favor them. While the Shadows felt it was their right to kick over the "anthills" of the galaxy and watch the ants rebuild.

The reapers if anything represent a combination and bastardization of these two seperate concepts. and guess what.

NEITHER WAS RIGHT.  What had happened was that both of these ancient races has lost their purpose and decided that guiding the younger races was their new purpose. Guiding along what they though was a "Natural" line.

But it wasn't, whatever natural progression was being hijacked by these two races, it wan't until they were forced to leave, that the people of the galaxy started to find their own footing, their own purpose, and more importantly their own destiny.

the Catalyst for all it's good intentions, at least from it's point of view, has perverted this "natural" progression and hijacked it for it's own aims. And ultimately denied us our destiny.

For children to reach their full potential, their parents must die.

the Catalyst is hanging on and quietly guiding things. Evolution is not being served by this guiding, becuase the advancement of the people was done not through their hands, but through 'his' and as such, is not true advancement. Because one must arrive at this new plataeu on your own, no one can or should hand it to you, and that is exactly what the synthesis ending was.

Whether or not we would natually arrive at synthesis, even if that was our ultimately destiny, it is wrong for the Catalyst to force that conclusion upon us, of it's own accord, to hijack our evolution and jump us to a final answer.

The catalyst decided to play God, and the Catalyst is NOT God, he is just another entity that exists in the universe, constructed of energy and possibly timeless, but not God.

Freedom, Self-determination and the abundance of Free Will is right course, it is the only right way. And the Synthesis ending hijacks all of those and forces an answer on all, indiscriminately, regardless of anyone persons say in the matter.

The reapers are themselves slaves to the Catalyst, they are to be pitied, because they are engaging in the circular logic and a self fulfilling prophecy of BS.

I was in fact hoping that the ending of ME3 would of been somehow Shepard "Freeing" the reapers from the Catalyst.

ME3 was about the breaking of cycles, ending distrust, discontent, hatred and bigotry. The bringing together of disparate peoples for a purpose. the ending of the Krogan/Salarian/Turian  mistrust, the ending of the Geth/Quarian conflict, and getting EVERYONE to trust Humanity. That was unity brought on by the peoples backing of the Unity they wanted, embodied in one man, Shepard, he didn't force loyalty and unity, he inspired it and made people WANT to back him, and work together.

That is the natural order, the natural advancement, enlightenment, etc. It was arrived upon by the people who desired it so, of their own desire, will and determination.

the Catalyst for what ever it's intentions, even if they seemed to it as good ones, violated that natural order and hijacked that evolution, and sought to control and bring about it's "vision" of what should be.

And that is WHY the Catalyst is EVIL. And the Reapers the very least slaves, if not willing accomplices in the crime.



#536
MassivelyEffective0730

MassivelyEffective0730
  • Members
  • 9 230 messages
Never thought of it that way. Maybe Destroy isn't the way to go.

What if a Reaper corpse has an unstable orbit and it decays too rapidly to stop?

That's a 1.2 mile piece of metal that will slam into some part of the Earth. And with hundreds of them? One alone is going to be doing some very serious damage when it impacts. And they're too big to completely burn up in the atmosphere.

#537
MassivelyEffective0730

MassivelyEffective0730
  • Members
  • 9 230 messages
I don't think the Reaper parts are going to indoctrinate anyone.

Seival can't prove that the shielding is necessary. It's never implied that it will indoctrinate. Only that they aren't going to take any chances.

Also, look at all the prior debris from Sovereign. That's a lot of Reaper scrap. You think somebody among the millions of people on the Citadel would have gotten indoctrinated.

Apparently, the Turians are fine. They did design a weapon based off of Reaper tech, and would have had to have been exposed to open tech.

Or EDI. She's made from Reaper parts, yet I don't see anyone getting indoctrinated by her.

No, I think there are specific Reaper devices that are made to indoctrinate. That's my postulation. And I have a credible source: EDI says that the device that controls Reaper Indoctrination is still intact on the derelict Reaper. That is why it is able to indoctrinate.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 30 avril 2013 - 06:07 .


#538
AlexMBrennan

AlexMBrennan
  • Members
  • 7 002 messages
Could I just point out that I wouldn't consider an AI made from Reaper tech a reliable source on the dangers of using Reaper tech.

#539
Reptilian Rob

Reptilian Rob
  • Members
  • 5 964 messages

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Never thought of it that way. Maybe Destroy isn't the way to go.

What if a Reaper corpse has an unstable orbit and it decays too rapidly to stop?

Not an issue, an object the size of a Reaper capital ship (1.2km) would have to be within three miles of the Earth's gravitational terminus to be pulled in. Most of the Reapers in space combat were MUCH further than that from the planets. Plus an object that size would disintigrate a great deal before reaching the terminal phase of impact, the damage it would cause would be minimal. Reaper hulls are made of iononized synthetic metals (says so in the Mass Effect art book) which would NOT survive reentree. Synthetic metals are not as strong as compressed metallic objects such as asteroids or comets, a Reaper capital ship would be reduced to small car sized particles before impact. 

The Reapers that fell on the planet would just be dismantled. 

I want to see the OP come back in here, it's fun listening to the nonsense. 

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 30 avril 2013 - 08:10 .


#540
robertthebard

robertthebard
  • Members
  • 6 108 messages

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Could I just point out that I wouldn't consider an AI made from Reaper tech a reliable source on the dangers of using Reaper tech.

Certainly.  Now, since she's been onboard the Normandy since we get her back in ME 2, how many people were indoctrinated by EDI?  Well, maybe Joker...Image IPB  There is also the pesky little detail that she was an AI before she got augmented with Reaper tech.  If you did the Luna Mission in ME 1, you shut her down yourself.  There is, of course the irony of that statement, which I did catch, kind of like "don't play with guns" while practicing quick draws or something.Image IPB

#541
ZeCollectorDestroya

ZeCollectorDestroya
  • Members
  • 1 304 messages
The Reapers got Shepard laid.

#542
MassivelyEffective0730

MassivelyEffective0730
  • Members
  • 9 230 messages

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

The Reapers got Shepard laid.


That sounds like an argument auld wulf would make.

Just saying...

#543
TheProtheans

TheProtheans
  • Members
  • 1 622 messages
True, I don't think Shepard got laid before the Reapers.
No one comes up from his past about sexual relationships with him.

#544
MassivelyEffective0730

MassivelyEffective0730
  • Members
  • 9 230 messages

TheProtheans wrote...

True, I don't think Shepard got laid before the Reapers.
No one comes up from his past about sexual relationships with him.


We can imply it though right? I like to think Shepard has experience. He's not 007 or anything (he has the potential to be, but it's not his thing), but he's fairly experienced and he's been around the block. He's popular with women, and he has a small list of liasons' he's had with women. He has had several girlfriends in his past as well.

#545
Argolas

Argolas
  • Members
  • 4 255 messages

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

True, I don't think Shepard got laid before the Reapers.
No one comes up from his past about sexual relationships with him.


We can imply it though right? I like to think Shepard has experience. He's not 007 or anything (he has the potential to be, but it's not his thing), but he's fairly experienced and he's been around the block. He's popular with women, and he has a small list of liasons' he's had with women. He has had several girlfriends in his past as well.


We don't know. I guess you can decide that for yourself.

Edit: There's this "You have first-hand sexual experience" line from EDI. I wonder, does that also occur if you never romanced anyone?

Modifié par Argolas, 30 avril 2013 - 03:02 .


#546
robertthebard

robertthebard
  • Members
  • 6 108 messages

Argolas wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

True, I don't think Shepard got laid before the Reapers.
No one comes up from his past about sexual relationships with him.


We can imply it though right? I like to think Shepard has experience. He's not 007 or anything (he has the potential to be, but it's not his thing), but he's fairly experienced and he's been around the block. He's popular with women, and he has a small list of liasons' he's had with women. He has had several girlfriends in his past as well.


We don't know. I guess you can decide that for yourself.

Edit: There's this "You have first-hand sexual experience" line from EDI. I wonder, does that also occur if you never romanced anyone?

It doesn't if you don't romance anyone in ME 2.

#547
Argolas

Argolas
  • Members
  • 4 255 messages

robertthebard wrote...

It doesn't if you don't romance anyone in ME 2.


Makes sense. After all, that's the only time were EDI would know.

It's rather weird to think about her watching everything :?

#548
KaiserShep

KaiserShep
  • Members
  • 23 847 messages

Seival wrote...

The Reapers are not war machines, they are harvesters.
The Catalyst is not a dictator, it is the avatar of evolution.


Think of it this way. If a sentient being sees itself and its kind so far above those it pushes against, like the reapers do to life in the galaxy, it seems reasonable enough that it wouldn't consider itself interested in warfare. But that's not unlike how little concern I have for the bacteria that live on my countertop, just before I spray them with disinfectant. 

The reapers are, for the lack of a better word, a pestilence. Their entire purpose is comparable to a virus. They "reproduce" by using the genetic material of other species, infect the minds of others, and create corrupted deformities that could otherwise not function naturally without tech to hold it all together. 

And no, the catalyst wouldn't really be a "dictator". The catalyst's relationship with the reapers would be more akin to a hive caste, which in itself doesn't really work, since every reaper Shepard spoke to seems to speak as an individual. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 30 avril 2013 - 03:20 .


#549
Seival

Seival
  • Members
  • 5 294 messages

AresKeith wrote...

Seival wrote...

According to you, they shielded the part of Nazara just for fun. Let them un-shield it and see what happens next. One more Sanctuary, but faster, and on the Citadel. Nice plan.

I know that Ann saying she's already indoctrinated was referring to the orb. But we are talking about Nazara's part, not about the orb.


^ This is being thick-headed at its best

1. Where in the hell did I saw they did it for fun? I said they shielded it as a precaution because they don't know what would happen, but that doesn't mean its gonna indoctrinate them if its un-shielded

Sovereign is dead so he can't indoctrinate anyone

2
. Then stop claiming Sovereign indoctrinated people in Leviathan

You are literally lose in your headcanon and obsession with the Reapers


(1) From the dialogue:
EDI: "Did you take appropriate steps to prevent indoctrination?" indoctrination, not explosion or something else.
Ann: "Of course, it was completely shielded...".

And that was before Ann mentioned the orb in that dialogue, which means they discussed the part of Nazara. If you will start to argue with that, then I can only suggest you to learn English better.


(2) Derelict Reaper was also dead. Almost in the same condition as Nazara - falling apart. Dead Reaper is not connected the Catalyst, obviously. No one could guide the derelict Reaper and the new victims aboard. No one could "turn indoctrination ON and give the target". Reaper indoctrination is based on Leviathans inborn ability, so it's not a tech power. Indoctrination comes from organic part of the Reaper, and so doesn't require mass effect core. Indoctrination is radiation that requires no power sources. That's why EDI asked the obvious question, and received the obvious answer (see 1).

#550
Steelcan

Steelcan
  • Members
  • 23 292 messages
Seival, indoctrination is a signal emitted. That means it needs a power source, likely an element zero core.