883 réponses à ce sujet

[essarr71]

KaiserShep wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Can you prove that they are a threat in destroy?

They can't control synthetics. We have no synthetics left on our side.

Really, it's not that hard. Even Shotgun Julia's sH0tgUn jUliA's brain should be able to grasp the implications.

That's not really proof of anything. Lets just all agree that all of this is speculation. It's no different from the arguments people make in support of betraying Wrex and sabotaging the genophage. Some assume what will happen outside of the story and choose accordingly. I myself see no such threat in the leviathan. If anything, the leviathan seem tactically inferior compared to the fleets united. The ability to indoctrinate didnt save the reapers from destruction. What chance do they have?

Indeed.  Beyond that, the galaxy is aware of them, can defend against thier orbs, and the Levi lack the ability to operate without outside help.  Even if they managed to thrall an entire planet, they'd lack the military power to fight the other races.  They can't thrall synthetics for mass/replaceable production, and they can't retreat from an orbital strike. 

If the universe wasn't provided with a way to counteract their greatest weapon I'd be more concerned.  As it stands, they don't strike me as a threat.  Certainly less than Wreav-led krogan or a new cataylst policing the galaxy.  If Synthesis doesn't impose will, then it might be a different story.. if it does, well... game over. anyway.

[Ecrulis]

tickle267 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Can you prove that they are a threat in destroy?

They can't control synthetics. We have no synthetics left on our side.

Really, it's not that hard. Even Shotgun Julia's sH0tgUn jUliA's brain should be able to grasp the implications.

well aren't you a nice person

I'm beginning to think Wulf and Sevial's attitude is contagious.....

*hides under a blanket*

[TheRealJayDee]

tickle267 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Can you prove that they are a threat in destroy?

They can't control synthetics. We have no synthetics left on our side.

Really, it's not that hard. Even Shotgun Julia's sH0tgUn jUliA's brain should be able to grasp the implications.

well aren't you a nice person

Seival's distorted views on ME3 mixed with Auld Wulf's striking attitude - horray!

[PsyrenY]

tickle267 wrote...

well aren't you a nice person

I respond to passive aggressive flaming in kind. I'm a bit more direct about it but no less appealing than my opposition.

In short, I push back, I'm not a doormat.

[AresKeith]

Optimystic_X wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Can you prove that they are a threat in destroy?

They can't control synthetics. We have no synthetics left on our side.

Really, it's not that hard. Even Shotgun Julia's sH0tgUn jUliA's brain should be able to grasp the implications.

Now your going into Auld Wulf territory

[PsyrenY]

tickle267 wrote...

well it looked like a random insult to someone you weren't even talking to, but that's just me.

You're right, I shouldn't stoop to their level. If they want to be passive-aggressive, I'll simply ignore them going forward until they flame me directly.

Now, anyone care to address my point instead of my manners?

[robertthebard]

AresKeith wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Can you prove that they are a threat in destroy?

They can't control synthetics. We have no synthetics left on our side.

Really, it's not that hard. Even Shotgun Julia's sH0tgUn jUliA's brain should be able to grasp the implications.

Now your going into Auld Wulf territory

Right down to ignoring events in game to make a point.  What form of life is a Reaper Variant?  Aren't they mostly synthetic now?  Yet, the Leviathans can take control of them, we've seen them do it.  We've seen them take control of a Reaper ship to make it shut down and crash too.

[Argolas]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Now, anyone care to address my point instead of my manners?

A pleasure.

The Leviathans can't control anything without their orbs. We are warned about those. There quickly won't be any of them anymore anywhere. Without those, the Leviathans can't control anything. And other than indoctrination, they can't create cover agents that way. Once the orb is destroyed, the thrall is free again, as seen in the mining facility where people who were enthralled for 10 years are freed immediatly once the orbs are gone.

[Seival]

Morlath wrote...

Seival wrote...

I'm afraid that you understood nothing in Leviathan DLC.

If Leviathans controlled each lesser race in Thorian manner, then organic-vs-synthetic problem wouldn't exist. Leviathans would just not allow lesser beings to create machines. But lesser races built machines that eventually destroyed them, remember? This means that thrall races have much more freedoms than you think. Only few people have to be controlled directly in such system (most politicians, and some particular groups for example). Society serves Leviathans without even knowing about that. Quite nice way of co-existence, don't you think so? You think that you are "free", while you are actually not, and no one cares about that, because life is good. Everyone happy.

No, because the Thorian allows its Thralls a "quasi-normal life". The Leviathans talk about their Thralls in similar manner, allowed to do whatever they wanted as long as it didn't do anything to hurt the Leviathans. Essentially Mind controlling dictators. The arrogance of the Leviathans implies that they simply didn't care what the species they controlled did in their spare time when they weren't being used.

And saying that being a slave is okay as long as you're a happy slave is insanity.

Leviathans created the Catalyst to protect lesser races from lesser races' creations. If they wanted to stop all those organics-vs-synthetics problems by limiting lesser beings' freedoms to create something, they could just control them in Thorian manner. But they didn't. Lesser beings' freedoms didn't suffer, even through lesser beings were Leviathans thralls.

You are a slave even in real life. Slave that has a lot of freedoms, but totally controlled by society rules. Being under Leviathans' control will not be much different for common people.

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

You are a slave even in real life. Slave that has a lot of freedoms, but totally controlled by society rules. Being under Leviathans' control will not be much different for common people.

Unless you believe in the Illuminati ruling the world or something like that, you are wrong.

[Steelcan]

@Seival

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Now, anyone care to address my point instead of my manners?

A pleasure.

The Leviathans can't control anything without their orbs. We are warned about those. There quickly won't be any of them anymore anywhere. Without those, the Leviathans can't control anything. And other than indoctrination, they can't create cover agents that way. Once the orb is destroyed, the thrall is free again, as seen in the mining facility where people who were enthralled for 10 years are freed immediatly once the orbs are gone.

Mind-influencing abilities are the part Leviathans' physiology (just like Rachni or Asari mental features). That power comes from Leviathans themselves. Orbs are just "windows to the galaxy", as the Leviathan stated itself. By orbs they can control people in distant worlds without need to visit those worlds personally. Orbs are just transmitters of Leviathan power, nothing more. And considering the vast number of those orbs and no regrets about losing some of them, Leviathans have no problem of creating new ones.

Also, too few people know about Leviathans existence, and even those will keep it secret, as always... to avoid massive panic.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Optimystic_X wrote...

tickle267 wrote...

well it looked like a random insult to someone you weren't even talking to, but that's just me.

You're right, I shouldn't stoop to their level. If they want to be passive-aggressive, I'll simply ignore them going forward until they flame me directly.

Now, anyone care to address my point instead of my manners?

I'll address it after you address my points.

[Argolas]

Seival, you are underestimating those people. As the Leviathans did. As the Catalyst did.

[KaiserShep]

Seival wrote...
You are a slave even in real life. Slave that has a lot of freedoms, but totally controlled by society rules. Being under Leviathans' control will not be much different for common people.

That is a tragically skewed way to see societal structure. The rules set by the construct of any specific society is not a form of slavery in and of itself, and there is a tremendous difference between following certain laws and etiquette, which, mind you, leaves possibility for revision and/or revolution, and having your mind plucked like a marionette by another consciousness. I'm afraid you're reaching far beyond any reasonable argument. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 01 mai 2013 - 05:56 .

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

Seival wrote...

You are a slave even in real life. Slave that has a lot of freedoms, but totally controlled by society rules. Being under Leviathans' control will not be much different for common people.

Unless you believe in the Illuminati ruling the world or something like that, you are wrong.

The society with all its rules and regulations is your "Illuminati", Argolas. It's not a conspiracy, its just a natural order of things. You are totally controlled, and consider yourself as free person. Slavery is not about chains. Slavery is about control in general. Total control is possible without any chains, just like in modern society.

Modifié par Seival, 01 mai 2013 - 05:57 .

[AresKeith]

KaiserShep wrote...

Seival wrote...
You are a slave even in real life. Slave that has a lot of freedoms, but totally controlled by society rules. Being under Leviathans' control will not be much different for common people.

That is a tragically skewed way to see societal structure. The rules set by the construct of any specific society is not a form of slavery in and of itself, and there is a tremendous difference between following certain laws and etiquette, which, mind you, leaves possibility for revision and/or revolution, and having your mind plucked like a marionette by another consciousness. I'm afraid you're reaching far beyond any reasonable argument. 

Like he always does

[KaiserShep]

As Edna Mode would say: Yes, words are useless! Gobbagobbagobbagobbagobba!

Modifié par KaiserShep, 01 mai 2013 - 05:59 .

[robertthebard]

KaiserShep wrote...

Seival wrote...
You are a slave even in real life. Slave that has a lot of freedoms, but totally controlled by society rules. Being under Leviathans' control will not be much different for common people.

That is a tragically skewed way to see societal structure. The rules set by the construct of any specific society is not a form of slavery in and of itself, and there is a tremendous difference between following certain laws and etiquette, which, mind you, leaves possibility for revision and/or revolution, and having your mind plucked like a marionette by another consciousness. I'm afraid you're reaching far beyond any reasonable argument. 

You forgot:  as usual, at the end of your post.

It is interesting to see this perspective from a dedicated Controller, and slightly scary too.

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

The society with all its rules and regulations is your "Illuminati", Argolas. It's not a conspiracy, its just a natural order of things. You are totally controlled, and consider yourself as free person. Slavery is not about chains. Slavery is about control in general. Total control is possible without any chains, just like in modern society.

We, at least if we live in a democracy, are ruled by Capitalism. It's a clear, cold and ruthless principle, but it's not a natural order neither is it slavery. It is the means by which we get by with each other. There is no apex race, no mastermind or anything behind that. That's a meaningful difference.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Seival wrote...

Mind-influencing abilities are the part Leviathans' physiology (just like Rachni or Asari mental features). That power comes from Leviathans themselves. Orbs are just "windows to the galaxy", as the Leviathan stated itself. By orbs they can control people in distant worlds without need to visit those worlds personally. Orbs are just transmitters of Leviathan power, nothing more. And considering the vast number of those orbs and no regrets about losing some of them, Leviathans have no problem of creating new ones.

Also, too few people know about Leviathans existence, and even those will keep it secret, as always... to avoid massive panic.

Yes, this is factually correct. Then you get to the bolded. That is incorrect.

The War Asset Description for the Leviathan Enthrallment Team:

A mixed-species team of special-operations soldiers have volunteered to covertly deliver Leviathan artifacts behind enemy lines. These attacks aim to make Reaper creatures thralls of the Leviathans. On a small scale, this could cause chaos and disruption. On a large scale--and if given enough time--it could form an army of Reaper creatures dedicated to exterminating their own kind. The team's major limiting factors are the small number of artifacts and the reluctance of Alliance commanders to operate openly with such a potent weapon for fear the Reapers might develop a countermeasure.

Then the Leviathans will make new artifacts, sure. Possibly many.

How are they going to get those orbs off world? Without any thralls, they'll have no way to do anything with those orbs. Might as well make an underwater castle out of them.

And with the location of Despoina a secret (I don't believe the existence of Leviathan itself is going to be a secret) to all but the Military high command, and a small fleet in orbit to prevent any people from landing, I don't think Leviathan will be a threat. Let them stew in their own underwater hell for all eternity. Every organic that died due to the Reapers over the course of infinite cycles is 10 years to their sentence in the depths.

[Morlath]

Seival wrote...



Leviathans created the Catalyst to protect lesser races from lesser races' creations. If they wanted to stop all those organics-vs-synthetics problems by limiting lesser beings' freedoms to create something, they could just control them in Thorian manner. But they didn't. Lesser beings' freedoms didn't suffer, even through lesser beings were Leviathans thralls.

You are a slave even in real life. Slave that has a lot of freedoms, but totally controlled by society rules. Being under Leviathans' control will not be much different for common people.

"The lesser species were in our thrall, servicing our needs....we could not save them...."

Pretty much the way the Thorian works. Let the thralls live however they want as long as it doesn't go against how the Leviathans will.

"You can not conceive of a galaxy that bends to your will. Every creature, every nation, every planet we discovered became our tools. We were above the concerns of lesser species."