883 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Wayning_Star wrote...
those levi on that water world Shepard talks to (kind of) stated they have thrall all over space and they have globes stashed all over too, some even forgotten, or, before the catalyst harvested them. Probably how they survived harvest. They've been holed up on that ONE planet that we know of, we don't know if there are more of them elsewhere, the codex entries up a few posts seems to infer that they do, or a very high probability factor of it, from what they discussed with Shepard as an asset in the reaper conflict.

Perhaps there are more of them. I believe however that in order to escape the Catalyst and the Reapers, they'd have abandoned their thralls and gone to realms where there are no thralls to exploit. I think the Catalyst would recognize if a species was being enthralled and harvest them, as well as look for any Leviathan presence and exterminate them. I think the only connection the Leviathan's have to the outside galaxy are the orbs that are stashed all across the galaxy.

I think then the goal would be to track any and all orbs and destroy them. The Leviathans then may still be around, but would be rendered impotent without orbs or thralls. Any Leviathan populations that were encountered... We know the environment they thrive in. Any new aquatic world discovered would have to have a team dedicated to finding Leviathan. If any team finds one, that planet would have to be quarantined. It takes time for the orbs and artifacts to affect people's minds. Upon discovery, they need to be destroyed.

[The Night Mammoth]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Doesn't anymore remember that people in the Mass Effect universe already have the technology to shield against the orbs?

I'm not convinced that's enough. For one thing, every time we've seen the shields they've been immobile - around Sovereign parts, around the reaper tech in Firebase Glacier, around the orbs themselves. Can people be protected by them 24/7?

Second, as I said in my post, they can indoctrinate without orbs (since they must have, to make the orbs in the first place) and they are capable of space travel. So unless we find a way to shield every individual on every colony world forever, there are going to be unprotected people out there.

Shielding every person on every world won't work, obviously, but it makes them very easy to deal with. Put them up round a dreadnaught and kill them. 

The Night Mammoth wrote...
Just role in there with a fleet with shields up and go fishing. 

If they're all still on that planet after the war I'll eat my hat. More likely the fleet will roll up and find nothing but rubble and empty oceans. The galaxy is HUGE, and they've been living in it for millions of years - if there are places to hide, they know about them. 

Then why not leave when the Reapers come looking? Where are the going to go with the Relays damaged?

[Morlath]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

So was I. They're capable of space flight, we just don't know how.

No, we don't. But read my theory. I think they enthralled species and used those species as a tool to create their technological innovations and their spaceflight capability.

They are intelligent enough, but I don't think they are physiologically capable of creating technology, at least, above water without using thralls to do so.

So what you're suggesting is that a species that's survived in hiding for over a billion years would have done so by hidding on a planet they have no chance of escaping? The Leviathans would have their own ships deep in the oceans or another means of travel hidden away. It makes no logical nor survival sense that they wouldn't have an exit stratagy for when/if the Reapers found the world or when/if the Reapers are destroyed and they no longer have to hide.

[PsyrenY]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wouldn't they have controlled the thralls to build the ships for them? I believe the Leviathans have the know-how to build ships. I don't believe that they are physically able to build them themselves, and need thralls to do so. It's mentioned that they gained their first thralls by venturing to the littoral zones of the oceans they lived in and enthralled the sentient species that they came into contact with at these shallow waters. The enthralled species were probably compelled to create the technological feats based off of the Leviathan's designs and idea's that the Leviathan's were physically unable to do themselves.

Take away the thralls and the orbs (and maintain enough distance), and the Leviathans are little more than giant value meals for Red Lobster.

Let's assume for a moment that you're right, and they are incapable of creating ships for themselves without thralls/orbs, or traveling without ships.

What about the ships they already have? They got to that planet somehow. Or even "planets" - Leviathan says they hid in the dark corners of the galaxy, implying they're somewhere else too.

And how advanced are their ships? They were capable of hiding in the far corners of the galaxy before Relays existed - this puts their FTL, lifespan or both considerably ahead of ours.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Then why not leave when the Reapers come looking? Where are the going to go with the Relays damaged?

The Reapers didn't find their planet until you did, remember?

And they got there without Relays - Leviathan says that they watched the Relays be constructed while already in hiding.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 01 mai 2013 - 09:30 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Reapers didn't find their planet until you did, remember?

That still doesn't explain why they didn't move. 

And they got there without Relays - Leviathan says that they watched the Relays be constructed while already in hiding.

They aren't going to know dozens of new hiding places then if they've been hiding in the same place for all this time, and if they don't need the Relays, why are they hiding in a system near one, and not out in some random system no one can reach, and if they can flit around without them, again, why not just move when Shepard comes looking? 

[greatcrusader44]

This doesn't make any sense, according to the Catalyst, the created will always rebel against their creators, meaning that is the natural order of things. By making the Reapers, he uses them to prevent that from happening, so they are the anti thesis of nature by preventing it from happening. Plus they are robots made by an artificial intelligence, just because it uses organic material doesn't make it natural.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Morlath wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

So was I. They're capable of space flight, we just don't know how.

No, we don't. But read my theory. I think they enthralled species and used those species as a tool to create their technological innovations and their spaceflight capability.

They are intelligent enough, but I don't think they are physiologically capable of creating technology, at least, above water without using thralls to do so.

So what you're suggesting is that a species that's survived in hiding for over a billion years would have done so by hidding on a planet they have no chance of escaping? The Leviathans would have their own ships deep in the oceans or another means of travel hidden away. It makes no logical nor survival sense that they wouldn't have an exit stratagy for when/if the Reapers found the world or when/if the Reapers are destroyed and they no longer have to hide.

I think that, given the circumstances, yes, I do believe the Leviathan's stranded themselves. When you're on the run for your life, you tend to not overthink things. I think the Leviathan's first instinct was the same as any living beings - survival. Safety, immediate safety from attacking Reapers would be their first goal. Any other problems would be dealt with when the issue came up. I'm saying that I don't believe the Leviathans had time to come up with an exit strategy. And with Reapers on the prowl, there really was no chance to rely on thralls, both because the Reapers would be targeting those thralls, and out of fear that thralls that were summoned to the planet would be tracked by the Reapers, leading them to Leviathan. They couldn't create an exit strategy until they were sure they were safe, and by that time, I think any thralls or tech they had would be destroyed or harvested by the Reapers. 

Or perhaps, maybe the Reapers could track their technology. Maybe, to protect themselves, they had to get rid of their ships and technology to facilitate survival.

We can really only speculate as to their ships technology: Would the ship be able to survive the crushing depths of the deep? Would they be able to survive the corroding effects of salt water that long? Would the Leviathans even be able to use the technology without thralls to control and pilot it? 

The only access to the galaxy at large I think the Leviathans have is their orbs. Through those orbs, they study and observe the galaxy and the current crop of races. This is also quite dangerous: as shown in Leviathan, the Reapers were using the orbs to track Leviathan. 

I imagine that the Leviathan's would periodically observe the galaxy at the predicted cycle periods to see what was going on. I'm sure they'd be able to tell if the Reapers were defeated when all the Reaper thralls they controlled were destroyed in the destroy wave.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Let's assume for a moment that you're right, and they are incapable of creating ships for themselves without thralls/orbs, or traveling without ships.

What about the ships they already have? They got to that planet somehow. Or even "planets" - Leviathan says they hid in the dark corners of the galaxy, implying they're somewhere else too.

And how advanced are their ships? They were capable of hiding in the far corners of the galaxy before Relays existed - this puts their FTL, lifespan or both considerably ahead of ours.

Read my post above.

As I said, maybe their ships are no longer usable. Maybe the ships can't be piloted by Leviathan's. Yes, they have long lifespans. Perhaps they have faster FTL. Doesn't mean a damn if the ships don't work, or if there are no thralls to pilot them.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 01 mai 2013 - 10:10 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

messed up my post

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 01 mai 2013 - 10:00 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ooo.... this is getting good.

[PsyrenY]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

That still doesn't explain why they didn't move.

How do you know they didn't? Have you been back since speaking with Leviathan? Since destroying the Reapers?

Best of all, their relay is probably really low on the repair priority. By the time anyone gets around to it, they could be long gone even using regular FTL.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

They aren't going to know dozens of new hiding places then if they've been hiding in the same place for all this time, and if they don't need the Relays, why are they hiding in a system near one, and not out in some random system no one can reach, and if they can flit around without them, again, why not just move when Shepard comes looking? 

1) You don't know how many planets they've been to before that one, nor how many they know of in total.
2) They're not in the same system as a Relay - you have to FTL to their system, and you'd have never found it without Ann Bryson.
3) The same reason they bothered coming to chat when he reached the bottom instead of just lurking out of sight until his suit ran out of power. "The Reapers perceive you as a threat; I must understand why." Once he got to their planet they decided t talk with him.

[The Night Mammoth]

Optimystic_X wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

That still doesn't explain why they didn't move.

How do you know they didn't? Have you been back since speaking with Leviathan? Since destroying the Reapers?

I didn't say that.

Best of all, their relay is probably really low on the repair priority. By the time anyone gets around to it, they could be long gone even using regular FTL.

To where? 

The Night Mammoth wrote...

They aren't going to know dozens of new hiding places then if they've been hiding in the same place for all this time, and if they don't need the Relays, why are they hiding in a system near one, and not out in some random system no one can reach, and if they can flit around without them, again, why not just move when Shepard comes looking? 

1) You don't know how many planets they've been to before that one, nor how many they know of in total.

No, I don't, but hundreds of millions of years have passed since then, the galaxy is a different place. 

2) They're not in the same system as a Relay - you have to FTL to their system, and you'd have never found it without Ann Bryson.

I didn't say they were in the same system as a Relay, and frankly, the time in which they remained hidden doesn't count as much in their favor anymore if Ann and her father tracking some rumors is all it took to find them. The game is up. If people start acting strangely, like they're not themselves, it shouldn't take much to figure out why and put a plan into action. Their biggest advantage was secrecy, and they aren't a secret anymore. 

3) The same reason they bothered coming to chat when he reached the bottom instead of just lurking out of sight until his suit ran out of power. "The Reapers perceive you as a threat; I must understand why." Once he got to their planet they decided t talk with him.

Something they could have ascertained before the meeting using the orbs, but if they didn't start to think that way until Shepard was right in front of them, why didn't they move before then? 

I don't recall exactly, but did the Leviathans know anything about the Crucible? 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 02 mai 2013 - 03:32 .

[PsyrenY]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I didn't say that.

Let me say first off that I do agree with you - if all remaining Leviathans are on that one planet, and all of them stayed on that one planet (by choice or unwillingly) through the end of the war and even until the nearest Relay to get to them is repaired, then yes - taking them out probably won't be an issue. But I do think that would be pretty dumb of them considering what they have survived until now.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

To where?

Anywhere. It's a big galaxy. Even with the Relays, I would wager less than 30% of it is fully explored, not to mention that with the post-Crucible galaxy (particularly Destroy) it will take us quite some time to locate them once more.

No, I don't, but hundreds of millions of years have passed since then, the galaxy is a different place.

Indeed, but not as different as you think - the Leviathan of Dis and the Derelict Reaper both stayed untouched for all that time, not to mention the Klendagon Rift and a number of other artifacts from eons-ago cycles. The Crucible plans also stayed intact across the ages, though not as long as the former two of course. Not to mention the Leviathans have been actively monitoring the galaxy that whole time, so if some of their boltholes have become defunct, they likely know.

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I didn't say they were in the same system as a Relay, and frankly, the time in which they remained hidden doesn't count as much in their favor anymore if Ann and her father tracking some rumors is all it took to find them.

I'm not sure what you want if that planet wasn't good enough for you. Just about anywhere they hide is either going to be in the same system as a relay, or require a jump to the nearest possible relay followed by some FTL. Every star system in the galaxy is going to fall into on of those two categories. When the Normandy FTLs to a far-off star, it's passing by tons of others that make up the cluster/nebula it's currently in. Just because the game simplifies things for you by only highlighting named systems doesn't mean it's so easy to narrow locations down in-universe.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

The game is up. If people start acting strangely, like they're not themselves, it shouldn't take much to figure out why and put a plan into action. Their biggest advantage was secrecy, and they aren't a secret anymore.

They actually still are, to the majority of civilized space. Remember, every mission the Normandy undertook was classified, including the Rachni. The only ones that are public knowledge are the ones Allers reports on (i.e. curing the genophage and the outcome of Rannoch.)

Hackett knows they exist, and probably what's left of Alliance High Command as well... but then, they knew about the Collectors too, and that didn't stop dozens of colonies from vanishing into thin air.

As for acting strangely, I agree - prolonged control will trip all kinds of alarm bells, unless they enslave an entire isolated location like the mining station.  (Though this too is pretty telling - after enslaving a mine for 10 whole years, the only oddity people noticed were irregular shipping numbers, per Liara, which she chalked up to them smuggling.) But let's assume for the sake of argument that you're right, and doing anything on a scale like that again will lead to detection. Remember that they can also exert control in bursts - indoctrinate someone, get them to do X quick task (like commit murder) and then relinquish control leaving the subject with no memory of their actions. They can effectively recruit entire colonies as sleeper agents before anyone knows what is happening, and once control is initially established, it's permanent. (Source: Ann Bryson.) They could enslave a research expedition or military patrol briefly, and wait whole years before exercising their control to have them start planting orbs in key locations. Our only real hope is that they stay on or near the planet where we found them.

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Something they could have ascertained before the meeting using the orbs, but if they didn't start to think that way until Shepard was right in front of them, why didn't they move before then?

"You have breached the darkness." It was likely a test, to see how far Shepard was willing to go to track them down. 

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I don't recall exactly, but did the Leviathans know anything about the Crucible? 

Indeed they did. They act pretty shifty/cagey when Shepard brings it up, but say they have watched various cycles try and fail to complete it. They don't comment on its origins; my personal theory is that the device began with them. But then again, Starkid still says "you would not know them" (the Crucible designers) even if you have met Leviathan, so it might be some other race after all.

[robertthebard]

While this debate is interesting to watch, it is all based on supposition. We think they need ships, which discounts the painting when we rescue Ann Bryson. We think they have been where we find them the whole time, but we don't know. There's a lot we don't know, so there's no way to pin anything down. Since all the ship wrecks we see are from our own cycle, there's no way to know for sure if they had been hiding there since they started hiding, or if they have moved between cycles to keep themselves from being detected.

There is nothing we can look at to say one way or the other. We can't even be sure if the painting is a representation of a Leviathan, or of an actual Reaper. We just don't know.

[Morlath]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think that, given the circumstances, yes, I do believe the Leviathan's stranded themselves. When you're on the run for your life, you tend to not overthink things. I think the Leviathan's first instinct was the same as any living beings - survival. Safety, immediate safety from attacking Reapers would be their first goal. Any other problems would be dealt with when the issue came up. I'm saying that I don't believe the Leviathans had time to come up with an exit strategy. And with Reapers on the prowl, there really was no chance to rely on thralls, both because the Reapers would be targeting those thralls, and out of fear that thralls that were summoned to the planet would be tracked by the Reapers, leading them to Leviathan. They couldn't create an exit strategy until they were sure they were safe, and by that time, I think any thralls or tech they had would be destroyed or harvested by the Reapers. 

They specifically say that they used their thralls to cover their tracks.

Or perhaps, maybe the Reapers could track their technology. Maybe, to protect themselves, they had to get rid of their ships and technology to facilitate survival.

I would agree with you if the Leviathans had been hidiing for only a few cycles. However even on the small scale of a Billion (a thousand million, not a million million) they've survived through over 20,000 cycles!

It's entirely feasible (and more likely) that the Leviathans hide during a cycle and a little while later, send out some type of scouting when the coast is clear so that they can replace any lost orbs and get a feel for the state of the galaxy in the next cycle.

Otheriwse you're talking about 20,000 advanced species ALL missing this one single planet in which the Leviathans are hiding on.

We can really only speculate as to their ships technology: Would the ship be able to survive the crushing depths of the deep? Would they be able to survive the corroding effects of salt water that long? Would the Leviathans even be able to use the technology without thralls to control and pilot it? 

Logic. Even if we both assume that the Leviathans are unable to construct ships on their own, that leaves them with two choices 1) have their thralls create ships they themselves cannot use or 2) have the Thralls build something the Leviathans can operate on their own and therefore not have to be trapped by their need for water.

Slave labour or "lesser species" are almost always used to create but then rarely used to run advanced systems.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Morlath wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I think that, given the circumstances, yes, I do believe the Leviathan's stranded themselves. When you're on the run for your life, you tend to not overthink things. I think the Leviathan's first instinct was the same as any living beings - survival. Safety, immediate safety from attacking Reapers would be their first goal. Any other problems would be dealt with when the issue came up. I'm saying that I don't believe the Leviathans had time to come up with an exit strategy. And with Reapers on the prowl, there really was no chance to rely on thralls, both because the Reapers would be targeting those thralls, and out of fear that thralls that were summoned to the planet would be tracked by the Reapers, leading them to Leviathan. They couldn't create an exit strategy until they were sure they were safe, and by that time, I think any thralls or tech they had would be destroyed or harvested by the Reapers. 

They specifically say that they used their thralls to cover their tracks.

Or perhaps, maybe the Reapers could track their technology. Maybe, to protect themselves, they had to get rid of their ships and technology to facilitate survival.

I would agree with you if the Leviathans had been hidiing for only a few cycles. However even on the small scale of a Billion (a thousand million, not a million million) they've survived through over 20,000 cycles!

It's entirely feasible (and more likely) that the Leviathans hide during a cycle and a little while later, send out some type of scouting when the coast is clear so that they can replace any lost orbs and get a feel for the state of the galaxy in the next cycle.

Otheriwse you're talking about 20,000 advanced species ALL missing this one single planet in which the Leviathans are hiding on.

We can really only speculate as to their ships technology: Would the ship be able to survive the crushing depths of the deep? Would they be able to survive the corroding effects of salt water that long? Would the Leviathans even be able to use the technology without thralls to control and pilot it? 

Logic. Even if we both assume that the Leviathans are unable to construct ships on their own, that leaves them with two choices 1) have their thralls create ships they themselves cannot use or 2) have the Thralls build something the Leviathans can operate on their own and therefore not have to be trapped by their need for water.

Slave labour or "lesser species" are almost always used to create but then rarely used to run advanced systems.

1) Yes. But you don't think the Reapers aren't smart enough to see what's going on? Perhaps they don't, but I think Leviathan is going to be making as small waves as possible in the interest of safety. The plan was to get to safety. Once in safety, then they could plan their... return, or future survival. With the galaxy perpetually under the reign of the Reapers, there's really nothing Leviathan can do.

2) I would agree to that, but I believe that the Leviathans move very slowly and not very often. Remember, to the majority of species, water worlds hold little interest. There's no land or fresh water source. It's possible to colonize them, but what's the point if you're going to spend more resources than you can utilize? I agree, I believe the Leviathans moved around every few cycles.

3) You didn't really respond to my last point. Really all you did was further stipulate one of my points. The point is that they need thralls to build their ships. Since they aren't going to get any native thralls from Despoina, they'll have to rely on their orbs to find them. That means that the thralls would have to independently build their ships and fly them to their world themselves. Maybe they've done that in the past. Maybe the Reapers find the ship and destroy it, or destroy the thralls before the ships are ready.

[Morlath]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

1) Yes. But you don't think the Reapers aren't smart enough to see what's going on? Perhaps they don't, but I think Leviathan is going to be making as small waves as possible in the interest of safety. The plan was to get to safety. Once in safety, then they could plan their... return, or future survival. With the galaxy perpetually under the reign of the Reapers, there's really nothing Leviathan can do.

The way the game puts it the Reapers only know what's going on with each cycle is by the information stored within the Citadel and anything an indoctrinated being is able to tell them. I'd say that as long as the Leviathans keep themselves from showing up in official records and stay hidden during a Reaper attack then they should be able to move around easily after each attack has finished.

It should take a good amount of years for new species to gain space flight. In this time the Leviathans could, coneivably move planets, drop their orbs and create new thralls.

3) You didn't really respond to my last point. Really all you did was further stipulate one of my points. The point is that they need thralls to build their ships. Since they aren't going to get any native thralls from Despoina, they'll have to rely on their orbs to find them. That means that the thralls would have to independently build their ships and fly them to their world themselves. Maybe they've done that in the past. Maybe the Reapers find the ship and destroy it, or destroy the thralls before the ships are ready.

The Leviathans comes across as too smart to allow themselves to be trapped on one planet and if the Reapers had found any ships/thralls post the original cycle then they would have searched for the Leviathans.

Modifié par Morlath, 04 mai 2013 - 03:28 .

[xlegionx]

Why did you have to resurrect this thread? You should have just let it die

[Morlath]

xlegionx wrote...

Why did you have to resurrect this thread? You should have just let it die

I find the discussions and arguments interesting.

[xlegionx]

Well ok, but generally when a thread of this size hasn't been posted in for 2 days, that means arguments have been hashed out already. Especially at this point when we're no longer talking about the original purpose of the thread (Leviathans as opposed to Seival's perception of the Reapers/Starbrat's supposed benevolence)

Modifié par xlegionx, 04 mai 2013 - 04:42 .

[Morlath]

I'd agree but the last post was in response to me and the only reason I hadn't replied sooner was that I forgot about it until just now.

[Seival]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Argolas wrote...


The Leviathans can't control anything without their orbs.

Incorrect. They used their thralls to create the orbs, therefore they could enthrall before orbs existed. And they are about to enslave Shepard in the hydrosuit - s/he has to ask (Renegade: demand) to be released.

The orbs merely allow them to do it from a very long distance away, as well as spy, with minimal risk to themselves.

Argolas wrote...

Once the orb is destroyed, the thrall is free again, as seen in the mining facility where people who were enthralled for 10 years are freed immediatly once the orbs are gone.

There are no leviathans on that asteroid. So whatever the maximum distance of their control is, obviously the asteroid was too far away without the orbs.

But they can space travel. And hide in the depths. They are infinitely patient and quite cunning, to have escaped detection for 37M+ years despite their size.

All they need is one out-of-the-way colony, with resources that can make orbs, and suddenly they are a problem again. And all they have to do is wait until they fade into history and legend once more.

Correct. The Leviathans can control themselves, but only at fairly close ranges. Without the orbs, it seems like it's a pretty limited range. With the orbs, the Leviathans can control from anywhere in the galaxy, but the actual range of the orb seems to be limited. There were several on the surface of Despoina, and they were unable to grab a Reaper  until it lowered its altitude attacking the shuttle to within range. 

Argolas is correct though about becoming free of Leviathan influence with a destroyed orb, though it is also shown that the prior enthralled individuals (Dr. Anne Bryson) are now more susceptible to Leviathan control if in close proximity to an unshielded orb.

Is there any proof that the Leviathans have spacecraft? Or that they're capable of flight themselves? As far as I see, there was no real correlation between the creature sightings and Leviathan. It was just a nifty gameplay mechanic. So I disregard that as unfounded.

There's no need to point out the Leviathan's ability to hide underwater, or that they are cunning and intelligent. That is established knowledge. Same with the time stamps: It's even longer than 37 million years. According to estimates made on the Leviathan of Dis in the first game, the Reaper corpse was at least 1 billion years old. The cycle has been going on for at least the last billion years.

And yes, they need thralls to create technology that is usable for them. On an ocean world, there is no land for intelligent species to evolve and be able to manipulate technology meaningfully for the Leviathans. And if you hide away their location and keep a fleet in orbit (since Levi's range doesn not appear to extend that far), Leviathan will have no means, to escape or enthrall, especially if all of the orbs that are used (it's a fairly small number) are tracked and destroyed.

The only thing that doesn't make this airtight is the possible existence of other orbs scattered throughout the galaxy, waiting to be found by an unsuspecting sentient... 

Once indoctrinated, thrall remains thrall forever. But if a thrall gets out of orbs range (or an orb was destroyed), he cannot be controlled directly until he gets close to an orb or a Leviathan again. Moreover, if controlled directly, thrall will have no memories of what happened while he was controlled. All of that was shown in the DLC.

Leviathans had no problems controlling lesser races before the Cycles began, and during the Cycles (which had to be much more difficult than before the Cycles). This means Leviathans are much harder to oppose than the Reapers themselves (who cannot defeat the Leviathans completely no matter how hard they tried).

Lesser races have no tools to oppose Leviathans, moreover lesser races will never even want to do that. Finally, after the Reaper threat was stopped, Leviathans started to recover to their full strength, and they will recover much faster than anyone else (considering technology and abilities they possess).



In short - Leviathans survived the Reapers. This is actually the only prove we need to state that Leviathans are unstoppable. Especially after they will recover. No one wants to be their enemies. Co-existence is the only way to go. Even the Catalyst understood this.

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

In short - Leviathans survived the Reapers. This is actually the only prove we need to state that Leviathans are unstoppable. Especially after they will recover. No one wants to be their enemies. Co-existence is the only way to go. Even the Catalyst understood this.

The Catalyst tried to wipe them out, not coexist- and I agree. The Leviathans are a thing of the past, their time is long over, their enthrallment is primitive. Husks are the future.

[KaiserShep]

They aren't unstoppable. If they were, they wouldn't cower in some abyss for eons. They did agree to release you from their hold, and then saved you from the brutes. It's a fair guess that they may not consider the "thrall" races like they used to, thus leaving co-existence a perfectly viable option regardless.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 05 mai 2013 - 08:32 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

In short, Leviathan tastes great sauteed in olive oil with garlic.