208 réponses à ce sujet

[Chashan]

Robosexual wrote...
That's not how it works, the Reapers are preserving life, not wiping it
out. They're harvesting, even their name implies it. Simply trying to
pretend the Reapers were doing otherwise means you didn't understand
anything in the series or are simply lying.

As does the Grim Reaper, right?

Sorry, but implying there is much more to the inspiration behind the name does reach quite a mighty bit. The way the most precious killbots operate makes them out to be naught more, naught less than avatars of continuous death. As much is seen throughout the series, ME3 itself gets rather explicit in likening their conduct to that of the more unsavoury chapters of actual human history, if you'll recall their 'staging areas' being outright named concentration camps, with reminiscent acts of heroism committed by those herded there-in being related.

Since some of the devs apparently could not see how at odds their revealing the Reap-hurrs as 'benevolent' is with their prior portrayal, I cannot exactly say I got any remorse for rejecting and replacing their catch-22 finale in three different flavours with elegant simplicity.

HagarIshay wrote...
Why? Because if it didn't have one then it would have been far to easy
to pick destroy without even consulting on the other solutions. If
Destroy had no catch, then what exactly would have made you to second
guess it? It's far to easy to do so for control and Synthesis on a moral
issue. Not to mention you fought against control during the whole game,
so it's even harder to accept.

Notice that even with the huge
catch to destroy, many people still deem it as the best solution of the
four. So the catch might not be so out of place. Just saying...

In which case they should have thought long and hard about both the premise and the 'character' - truth be told, the creature does not even classify as such - involved with their grandiose tri-colour-choice scenario, and whether they can be reasonably accommodated. For example, instead of wasting TIM in a Saren-2.0 scene, why not let him persuade in favour of another application of the device, instead of having him spout megalomanic ramblings?

Modifié par Chashan, 27 avril 2013 - 01:58 .

[Metallica93]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Metallica93 wrote...

Can't believe they actually added that as a choice

Me neither, though not for the same reason.

Care to explain? I'm curious.

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Why does the kid instruct Shepard to shoot the tube to destroy the Reapers?

The Catalyst's purpose is to continue the cycle and yet he tells Shepard there's a way of breaking it. He could have easily sent a Reaper to destroy the Citadel. Shepard dies, Crucible destroyed, cycle continues.

Makes no sense.

Modifié par Metallica93, 27 avril 2013 - 02:17 .

[SpamBot2000]

Metallica93 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Metallica93 wrote...

Can't believe they actually added that as a choice

Me neither, though not for the same reason.

Care to explain? I'm curious.

I find it very peculiar that they brought the voice actors into the studio to record a big speech about "not compromising the soul of our species" just for a Game Over sequence. That's what Refuse is. You don't get the achievement for completing the game for choosing it. 

I suspect the voice actors had no idea they were being used to troll players who hated the ending choices when they were doing the speech.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 27 avril 2013 - 02:28 .

[Wayning_Star]

Metallica93 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Metallica93 wrote...

Can't believe they actually added that as a choice

Me neither, though not for the same reason.

Care to explain? I'm curious.

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Why does the kid instruct Shepard to shoot the tube to destroy the Reapers?

The Catalyst's purpose is to continue the cycle and yet he tells Shepard there's a way of breaking it. He could have easily sent a Reaper to destroy the Citadel. Shepard dies, Crucible destroyed, cycle continues.

Makes no sense.

the cats purpose is to end chaos, or really, as it actually HAS no purpose, it's really just a machine... Organics are the ones with 'a purpose' , though they don't always know what that purpose might be...

[robertthebard]

Chashan wrote...

In which case they should have thought long and hard about both the premise and the 'character' - truth be told, the creature does not even classify as such - involved with their grandiose tri-colour-choice scenario, and whether they can be reasonably accommodated. For example, instead of wasting TIM in a Saren-2.0 scene, why not let him persuade in favour of another application of the device, instead of having him spout megalomanic ramblings?

Because TIM is a megalomaniac?  Brutal experiments in ME 1 to further humanity, some before ME 1, just ask a Sole Survivor Shepard, or Corporal Toombs.  Ask Admiral Kahoku about losing his marines to the Thresher trap they set up for them.  Wait, you can't, because Cerberus killed him too.  Hey, ask Jack why she feels the way she does about Cerberus, and don't hand me the "rogue cell" argument; TIM got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, what's he supposed to say:  Whatever it takes to advance humanity, Shepard, you know that"?  It's funny though, because he does make that clear later on, when he's begging for the Collector Base.

Other than that, yeah.  No matter how they wrote TIM for that scene, going through ME 1 to ME 3, and knowing he's the brains behind the organization, there's no argument he could present to me that won't come off as "but MOAR POWAH FOR HUMANITY, lolz".  There should have been some more thought put into the endings, but we have what we have.

[Chashan]

robertthebard wrote...

Chashan wrote...

In which case they should have thought long and hard about both the premise and the 'character' - truth be told, the creature does not even classify as such - involved with their grandiose tri-colour-choice scenario, and whether they can be reasonably accommodated. For example, instead of wasting TIM in a Saren-2.0 scene, why not let him persuade in favour of another application of the device, instead of having him spout megalomanic ramblings?

Because TIM is a megalomaniac?  Brutal experiments in ME 1 to further humanity, some before ME 1, just ask a Sole Survivor Shepard, or Corporal Toombs.  Ask Admiral Kahoku about losing his marines to the Thresher trap they set up for them.  Wait, you can't, because Cerberus killed him too.  Hey, ask Jack why she feels the way she does about Cerberus, and don't hand me the "rogue cell" argument; TIM got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, what's he supposed to say:  Whatever it takes to advance humanity, Shepard, you know that"?  It's funny though, because he does make that clear later on, when he's begging for the Collector Base.

Other than that, yeah.  No matter how they wrote TIM for that scene, going through ME 1 to ME 3, and knowing he's the brains behind the organization, there's no argument he could present to me that won't come off as "but MOAR POWAH FOR HUMANITY, lolz".  There should have been some more thought put into the endings, but we have what we have.

I'd still have much preferred him in the role of positing information on why the Reap-hurrs are going about their business - if that's even necessary and of importance at that point - and alternate usage of the device over the waste of ressources and time that comes after. It wouldn't be BW's first time giving an insane antagonist commanding enough a presence that his argument is at least heard, if not accepted.

And they could have given him a punch-line more grounded than his 'advancement of humankind by a factor greater than the last 10.000 years'. Namely, that given the possibility of both commandeering the Reap-hurrs and thus stopping their tour of genocide, how does that not dwarf the casualties towards that goal along the way, especially in regards to Sanctuary? Completing that section first time around, I'll admit that I did humour the thought.

As posited elsewhere, they should indeed have had Kerberos involved differently in ME3 to begin with, not merely as a parody of the Sith Empire and based on whether Shepards sympathised with their agenda, determination to defeat the Reap-hurrs or both. Failing that, some kind of 'redemption' of TIM on his own and not by decree of a certain exposition device would have been the least the developers could have done.

[In Exile]

robertthebard wrote...

That theory always cracks me up though:  Let's plant plans that include a method to destroy us because no species is going to be willing to destroy us.

It's brought to you by the guy who's entire purpose is: Let's kill all organics in the most horrible and terrifying ways using machines so that all organics aren't killed by machines. 

[AlanC9]

SpamBot2000 wrote...
I find it very peculiar that they brought the voice actors into the studio to record a big speech about "not compromising the soul of our species" just for a Game Over sequence. That's what Refuse is. You don't get the achievement for completing the game for choosing it. 

What's peculiar about that? WC3 had two mission briefings, a Hobbes funeral, and several cutscenes including the PC's execution, for a sequence that can only be played if the player has irretrievably lost the war. Blair's defiant speech is almost as good as Refuse, though you can also go out like a wuss if you want to.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 avril 2013 - 04:57 .

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...
I find it very peculiar that they brought the voice actors into the studio to record a big speech about "not compromising the soul of our species" just for a Game Over sequence. That's what Refuse is. You don't get the achievement for completing the game for choosing it. 

What's peculiar about that? WC3 had two mission briefings, a Hobbes funeral, and several cutscenes including the PC's execution, for a sequence that can only be played if the player has irretrievably lost the war. Blair's defiant speech is almost as good as Refuse, though you can also go out like a wuss if you want to.

That's pretty peculiar too. But in a cool way. Origin... 

I just keep picturing them briefing Hale and Meer... "OK, this part is for an ending where the players don't join the Reaper program... just go for it, full tearjerking emotion... epic heroism, the works... and then it's much more funny when we go 'TROLOLOLOL, Game Over, everyone's dead!'"

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 27 avril 2013 - 05:13 .