351 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
At any rate, associating art-minded people and full appreciation the ending of Mass Effect 3---namely synthesis---is gross, provocative incompetence.

I've watched and enjoyed Krzysztof Kieslowski's Three Colours trilogy.

...nope, Synthesis is still a sack of crap.

Smurfblaster wrote...
Just for contrast, I feel I have to mouth off here: I liked the pre-EC ending better, and enjoyed every minute of the way there. HA!

Quoted for truth.  My immediate impressions of the ME3 endgame were anger and disappointment, but over time, I've actually found myself enjoying Bioware's original artistic vision much, much more than the mob-placating fan service that was the Extended Cut.  So much so, I've deleted it.

If you need to rely on a hastily tacked-on supplement to enjoy the ending of a game, chances are you haven't understood it in the first place.

You enjoyed the utter destruction of everything you did and saw through the 3 games? Because that´s what happened. And if so, what´s about wansgt and grimdark that makes you think "art"? At times this looks like the new 90s.

[ElSuperGecko]

KaiserShep wrote...
I never did get a chance to play the game pre-EC, but as one who picks destroy for my canon Shep, I was fairly satisfied, if left wanting. It sucks that it came with a pretty big catch, but as far as I can tell, they all do, so I went with the one that permits the fewest nagging questions. The more I think about control and synthesis, the less I like them, and I think the major problem is that they didn't keep it simple. The reason ME2 was so satisfying to run through in its final act was that your choices were making a difference, and you could get the best possible ending so long as you did everything right, whereas in ME3, you're kind of stuck in a bittersweet rut no matter what you do. I get the whole artistic vision thing, but I guess my point is that for something where you can kind of customize your experience, it would've been far more satisfying for players to choose between the bittersweet and essentially getting their "fairy tale" ending where everything gets tied up neatly with a fair share of catharsis.

I like this human.  He/she understands!

Nerevar-as wrote...
You enjoyed the utter destruction of everything you did and saw through the 3 games? Because that´s what happened...

That's personal interpretation, not a narrative fact.  And yes, I enjoyed the original endings - the EC has only made me appreciated the developer's orginal artistic vision more.

Don't be under any illusions - the Extended Cut is NOT a Director's Cut.  The scenes, dialogues and exposure it adds were not simply left on the cutting room floor, they NEVER originally intended to be there in the first place.  As I said before, if you need the developers to throw you the fan-service bone in order to appreciate the story, maybe you never understood it as well as you thought you did in the first place.  Your post above would be proof enough of that, however.

Modifié par ElSuperGecko, 26 avril 2013 - 03:27 .

[dreamgazer]

Outsider edge wrote...

People who were present during those first months after the march launch saw that what transpired was something truly unique.

Indeed. A pure example of what anonymity affords you on the internet: the opportunity to spew whatever exaggerated nonsense you like, without any accountability. Death threats, demands for resignations or firings, posters who felt differently being called all manner of negative slangs ... it was quite an eye-opening experience.

And yes, that indeed does not represent the majority of Mass Effect's fans.  Thank the maker.

[Ryzaki]

Well if those who don't like it are a minority I imagine those that do are an even smaller one BW.

The majority apparently doesn't care at all.

And I don't know about you but if an ending I wrote received a large "meh" response this is not something I'd be proud of.

[AresKeith]

Ryzaki wrote...

Well if those who don't like it are a minority I imagine those that do are an even smaller one BW.

The majority apparently doesn't care at all.

And I don't know about you but if an ending I wrote received a large "meh" response this is not something I'd be proud of.

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

[CronoDragoon]

AresKeith wrote...

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

Well, no not really. Remember the majority of people didn't finish ME2, either. I think it's just a fact about gaming populations; it's not a sign that BW has done anything wrong that most people who bought the game don't care about the ending.

[o Ventus]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is amazing. Replaying it atm and the ending has already been foreshadowed multiple times. It all makes sense if you pay attention.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha


No.

[o Ventus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

Well, no not really. Remember the majority of people didn't finish ME2, either. I think it's just a fact about gaming populations; it's not a sign that BW has done anything wrong that most people who bought the game don't care about the ending.

And those people aren't the fanbase.

[AresKeith]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

Well, no not really. Remember the majority of people didn't finish ME2, either. I think it's just a fact about gaming populations; it's not a sign that BW has done anything wrong that most people who bought the game don't care about the ending.

That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

[CronoDragoon]

o Ventus wrote...

And those people aren't the fanbase.

Okay? I was responding to a hypothetical which assumed they were. It doesn't really matter to me who gets classified as what. People who like the endings and people who dislike the endings both use arguments from popularity and I find it tiresome.

[CronoDragoon]

AresKeith wrote...
That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

Now you are talking about a different problem, which is if BW is using the silent majority as stand-ins for assumed approval. If that is what they do then I can only roll my eyes.

[ThatBigStupidJellyfish]

[PsyrenY]

o Ventus wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Mass Effect 3 is amazing. Replaying it atm and the ending has already been foreshadowed multiple times. It all makes sense if you pay attention.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

No.

Translation: "I don't get it, therefore nobody else does either!"

[dreamgazer]

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

Well, no not really. Remember the majority of people didn't finish ME2, either. I think it's just a fact about gaming populations; it's not a sign that BW has done anything wrong that most people who bought the game don't care about the ending.

That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

Unfortunately, money talks when it comes to evaulating the broader consumer base. Even following the nonsense about ME2's "pointless" plot, as regularly referenced on this board, its sequel still sold rather well. To date, on the 360, ME3 has only sold .2m less copies than the previous game released in 2010, and almost exactly as many copies as ME1 has sold since 2007.

Therefore: sustained sales = we're doing something right.  But profitability, as evidenced in movies and games alike, is not a barometer of quality.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 26 avril 2013 - 04:17 .

[M Hedonist]

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

Well, no not really. Remember the majority of people didn't finish ME2, either. I think it's just a fact about gaming populations; it's not a sign that BW has done anything wrong that most people who bought the game don't care about the ending.

That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

The message should be clear. "Don't do this again".

[Ticonderoga117]

Sauruz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

Well, no not really. Remember the majority of people didn't finish ME2, either. I think it's just a fact about gaming populations; it's not a sign that BW has done anything wrong that most people who bought the game don't care about the ending.

That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

The message should be clear. "Don't do this again".

There was also a giant thread way back when that had oodles of ideas to fix the narrative from bat-crazy to something approahcing making sense. Namely getting rid of the Catalyst.

But no, what everyone remembers is the odd nutcase that exists no matter what happens. Go figure.

[M Hedonist]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I agree, if you have a fanbase that doesn't care what you do at all is a problem in itself

Well, no not really. Remember the majority of people didn't finish ME2, either. I think it's just a fact about gaming populations; it's not a sign that BW has done anything wrong that most people who bought the game don't care about the ending.

That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

The message should be clear. "Don't do this again".

There was also a giant thread way back when that had oodles of ideas to fix the narrative from bat-crazy to something approahcing making sense. Namely getting rid of the Catalyst.

But no, what everyone remembers is the odd nutcase that exists no matter what happens. Go figure.

The details don't matter that much. At least for me, it'd good enough to know that Bioware wouldn't do it again.
Customers aren't supposed to design a companies' products, anyway. All we can do is to tell them what we want and what we don't want. Which I think most fans can agree on: More happy ending, less nonsense. Either one or both are the root of most criticisms of the endings.

Modifié par Sauruz, 26 avril 2013 - 04:35 .

[Capt. Pancake]

doubt it highly, ME1 and 2 way better IMO

[Outsider edge]

dreamgazer wrote...

Outsider edge wrote...

People who were present during those first months after the march launch saw that what transpired was something truly unique.

Indeed. A pure example of what anonymity affords you on the internet: the opportunity to spew whatever exaggerated nonsense you like, without any accountability. Death threats, demands for resignations or firings, posters who felt differently being called all manner of negative slangs ... it was quite an eye-opening experience.

And yes, that indeed does not represent the majority of Mass Effect's fans.  Thank the maker.

Did excesses happen? sure plenty of them this is the internet afterall however your view seems abit one sided.

What u glanced over was the fact players bonded over a common goal. The fact PR for once didn't supress the outcries. The fact it became a chess match between fans/retakers/forum-goers and EA/Bioware's PR machine. The fact non gaming media for once looked at gaming beyond the numbers sold of certain titles. The fact PR shill sites like IGN/Eurogamer and more were caught with their pants down scrambling too make a u-turn on the subject just because the "minority" were effecting their page hits.The fact it forced Bioware's hand and produced the EC.

I dare say that having followed the whole ordeal as it happened that it provided me with more entertainment then the actual game. It was something that i truly hadn't seen before. Watching PR statements being dissected minutes after by players that worked in PR during the day. University professors adding their views. Sci fi writers giving their opinion on the narrative. It was glorious.

So while you only point to one particular side of the ordeal probably because it fits your own agenda. The ending controversy had many many more sides too it. Plenty of them positive.

[CaIIisto]

Meh.

The vocal minority vs the silent minority vs the ambivalent majority.

Realistically though, no one has the first clue about exactly how many fit into each category, including BW.

[Outsider edge]

Bester76 wrote...

Meh.

The vocal minority vs the silent minority vs the ambivalent majority.

Realistically though, no one has the first clue about exactly how many fit into each category, including BW.

And that's exactly how it it. Nobody knows. In fact the effects (if there are even any) will only surface once the next Mass Effect game is around the corner. If that game sells a million less then Mass Effect 3 one could theoretically conclude that the reception of the third game caused the franchise to shrink with 1 million. Yet that still wouldn't say anything about percentages of people liking or disliking the endings just that the series has taken a sharp drop in popularity.

Modifié par Outsider edge, 26 avril 2013 - 05:05 .

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

Now you are talking about a different problem, which is if BW is using the silent majority as stand-ins for assumed approval. If that is what they do then I can only roll my eyes.

Baased on what I've seen, that's exactly what's happening.

[dreamgazer]

Outsider edge wrote...

So while you only point to one particular side of the ordeal probably because it fits your own agenda. The ending controversy had many many more sides too it. Plenty of them positive.

Please, tell me what my agenda is. Wasn't aware I had one. Do you?

Speaking of alternate "sides", you know as well as I do that there's another side to that movement that's completely and utterly self-serving. Yes, I'm aware of the Child's Play donations (some of which were returned by request), the cupcakes (which angered some people when BW donated them), and the spike in Forbes' subscriptions due to the situation. Holding publishers and developers accountable for their content is a positive thing, as is the camaraderie that formed around it, but let's not excuse all the knee-jerk, irrational rhetoric and actions I saw on here with: "Oh, well, positive things came out of it, too." So did plenty of negative, which wasn't merited.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
That's still a problem because those people can't give proper feedback on how developers can improve the next game

Now you are talking about a different problem, which is if BW is using the silent majority as stand-ins for assumed approval. If that is what they do then I can only roll my eyes.

Baased on what I've seen, that's exactly what's happening.

I suppose they'll wise up when people stop buying their games. MENext will be interesting to observe, especially with the amount of "suggestions for ME4" threads I've seen around here.  People are still interested.