351 réponses à ce sujet

[ZerebusPrime]

I can only speak about my own social circle, comprising people who do speak up on the BSN and those who do not. Of those who do not come here, I know of not one person who liked the ending of ME3 (and at least one who traded the game back in in disgust). The so called silent majority, at least the ones I talked to, were not happy in March, 2012. As for myself, I only achieved a measure of respect for the ending by conversing with BSN members with a variety of takes on the hows and whys about the end to ME3.

Even then, I am still waiting for some sort of official explanation as to what exactly happened at the end of ME3.  The ending as is does not not speak for itself in any language I can decipher.

Modifié par ZerebusPrime, 25 avril 2013 - 02:47 .

[Alien Number Six]

I liked the end of the game. There it has been said.

[The Night Mammoth]

Alien Number Six wrote...

I liked the end of the game. There it has been said.

Witch!

https://encrypted-tb...YNt_2SN8CaCxAbA

Burn him!

[PsyrenY]

o Ventus wrote...

Inb4 they don't talk, therefore they like it.

That is sh*t logic.

I'd be more inclined to say "they don't talk, therefore they don't feel as strongly about it as those who do." And if that means they buy the next game, that's good enough.

[dreamgazer]

The ending of Mass Effect 3 turned me into a newt.

... well, I got better ...

[Wolfva2]

Who knows who is the minority and who the majority? We don't have the hard numbers. Personally, I think most players are in the middle. Which is true of most things.

The problem though, is people pretty much only flock to the forums when they're feeling passionate about something. (note: This doesn't include us regulars who basically are here because we're bored or other reason<LOL>) The average, ambivalent gamer isn't going to hit the forums, especially on a regular basis. They just don't care enough to. I mean, think about how many people bought the game? Now how many thousands of posts have their been saying, "Meh, endings were whatever <shrug>" But look at us, heck, there are people here who you know what they're going to say before they even say it because you've seen them say it so many times in the past.

Like, some of ya'll know if I'm posting something it's gonna be to damned long. I have GOT to learn brevity sometime....

[Adoramei]

Well, in my personal experience, everyone I've met/spoken to that has played Mass Effect 3 (aside from these forums) has liked the game itself but hated the execution of the ending. Given, it's a select few, that is my experience and seems to be a trend. This also does not count in the fact that I have minimal interest in being social with non-gamers.

Eh. I respect the opinion of those who share my experience level, whether my/our/their opinion falls into the majority or minority. I understand the need to question where you fall on the scale though.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Auld Wulf wrote...

This is a silly topic.

Things operate on a sliding scale, it's not absolutes. There is no absolute liking or disliking of the ending. There are even things I dislike about the execution of the ending, which I would have written a little differently (for clarity's sake). I admit, I am very much towards the "I loved it!" side of the scale, but it is important to recognise that it's a sliding scale.

It's also relevant to point out that it's an ending that encourages and is worth introspection and philosophical examination. If you don't do that/don't want to do that, then you're not going to get a lot out of the experience, ultimately. If you've ever looked at a really weird bit of art and wondered just what exactly was going through the artist's mind at the time then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

It's important to immediately like or dislike something, in my opinion. Absolutes are horrible things, as are immediate judgements. It is also important to try to understand something before making any kind of judgement, otherwise the judgement is irrelevant and borne purely of ignorance. There is a lot of ignorance surrounding the ending which tends to weigh the "I hated it!" end of the scale. And that's a damned shame. But that's true of anything that isn't low brow.

Try to get a non-arty person to watch Pan's Labyrinth or Daywatch, for example. It's a disaster.

So there you go. My take on it.

Edit: It's both shameful and amusing that Zaeed Massani is more capable of art introspection that the vast majority of the entertainment mainstream.

I'm pretty sure I absolutely dislike the ending.

[XqctaX]

who gives a **** what the majorty thinks.

my opinion is that mass effect 3 is written by a 3-year old kid.

[Undertone]

What a silly topic. The fact that Bioware made an "extended ending" tells you enough. Regardless of what the numbers are the ending of Mass Effect 3 broke video gaming entirely for me to the point it turned me away from gaming all together. It was that bad, one of the worst endings in the entire gaming history if not the worst considering how potential there was and how much I utterly enjoyed the first one and Knights of the old Republic.

[shodiswe]

Argolas wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

It's also relevant to point out that it's an ending that encourages and is worth introspection and philosophical examination. If you don't do that/don't want to do that, then you're not going to get a lot out of the experience, ultimately. If you've ever looked at a really weird bit of art and wondered just what exactly was going through the artist's mind at the time then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

Yes, but in that case, the ending recognized this. BioWare must have known that there will be a lot of counterstrike kiddies who just wanted to see the baddies blowing up, and they got that. They just miss other levels of understanding towards the ending. Then again, those hints are so obviously there that those people who do not want to see deeper levels of understanding still notice them but don't understand, so they are probably confused, don't want to think about it and just react by crying out how bad the ending is.

I can see what they were going for but I wouldn't call it well made. The end mission was rushed and brainless, the ending was... Rushed and semi philosophical, but lacking in structure, clarity and dramatic delivery.
The EC made the ending a lot better but  I still don't "like" them, the setup lacks drama, it's more like it deflates the last pockets of air of the endgame..
First I got a shooter experience throughout most of the priority Earth mission, the shooting element is ok, but it's not the reason why  bought Mass effect, granted there were a few good moments but there were several pointless and even wasted moments for choices or making a difference or perhaps even a little squad banther...

Could it have been worse with a monkey writign the endings? Yes, absolutely, but it's still not the emotional or story heavy experience with rich characters which I expected from the endings.
Other parts of this game shines and this part slowly got me increasingly bored.

The reaper destroyer running around with a giant AA gun on it's back, sure, but we could have been given some forshadowing that the gun was volatile and a weakpoint that would make it easy to kill if we get inposition with the right armament, then it would have been easier to swallow the one shot kill with a handgun, I had to headcannon it.
The turret defence at the FOB needed some kind of objective, maybe involving that damaged armored transport out there... Talking to peopel wasnice, but I also find it sad that the Geth prime that's around when you pick the Geth over the Quarians doesn't show when you make Peace(memory budget?), or that the STG people don't show up at all if you side with the Krogans, despite saying they would be there, you could at least have had Kirahe and perhaps one of his friends standing around and make it sound like they were setting thigns up to support the effort.
The assault planning stage could have had more options available depending on war assets recruited, perhaps a small addition of intel from the armored transport crew if you managed to keep a survivor alive to deliver intel(thereby making the turret event meaningful). Otherwise it was ok I guess, it wasn't bad but it wasn't very interactive, it could have used some of the ME2 collectorbase preparations.

The rest of the mission is pretty much a shooter gallery til we get to those missilelaunchers which is mostly click and keep shooting. a "pizza" delivery like mission for that, getting a new powercell for the damaged vehicle might have made it more interesting rather than just standing around shooting at a never ending horde. Also war assets coudl have provided a small apperance at that Point, even if it could have been mostly cosmetic, like a volus bomberfrigate making a run clearing away a few enemies at the start, even if new ones still add up fast after it's passed the area or crashed.
Summary:
The EC helped the endings somewhat but it still feelt like the greatest battle ever in the history of the galaxy feelt a little slow and empty. Character cameos were dodgy from my perspective, but I'm sure it could have been worse considering how many characters we meet during the series. The storytelling could have been richer and feelt more fulfilling and polished.
Most of the game gets between 8/10 - 10/10 but the last mission and ending would be something like 5/10 - 4/10. It had it's moments but also a lack of them. (maybe be I'm unreasonable, but it feelt like a lot was left out and the experience lost pace and content.)

[txgoldrush]

There are the pro-enders (or post EC pro enders), the smart people who got all along that ME3 was about victory through sacrifice and the entire game was about the prices people must pay to achieve success, which the ending definitely reflects. Smart pro enders realize that "organics vs synthetics" was the context, not the conflict, and that the Catalyst was a subversion or even downright inversion of the deus ex machina.

Then there are the anti enders who completely ignored the story and its themes, ignored the foreshadowing of the ending, both by structure and thematically, and simply make up bizarre theories for something as straightforward as the ending. Hell, the vast majority of anti enders chasing the organics vs synthetics idiot ball proves that they simply didn't get the actual conflict. Hint: it wasn't about organics and synthetics.

The majority however, as Merizan found, did not want more post ending content. That means we have a silent majority that likes the ending or is indifferent.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 avril 2013 - 06:27 .

[Redbelle]

Did it matter if they were a minorirty or majority? You have to admit that the original ending was very bad for a variety of reasons. One of them being the failure of event's occuring on screen to carry the player through the narrative. And BW seemed to agree since they released a ECDLC that showed why squadmates ended up on Normandy. And how Hackett knew Shepard was on the station, etc etc.

Simply put, BW heard the call that the ending was not up to their usual standard and changed it to better portrey event's for the sake of the player's narrative immersion

[MegaSovereign]

txgoldrush wrote...

There are the pro-enders (or post EC pro enders), the smart people who got all along that ME3 was about victory through sacrifice and the entire game was about the prices people must pay to achieve success, which the ending definitely reflects. Smart pro enders realize that "organics vs synthetics" was the context, not the conflict, and that the Catalyst was a subversion or even downright inversion of the deus ex machina.

Then there are the anti enders who completely ignored the story and its themes, ignored the foreshadowing of the ending, both by structure and thematically, and simply make up bizarre theories for something as straightforward as the ending. Hell, the vast majority of anti enders chasing the organics vs synthetics idiot ball proves that they simply didn't get the actual conflict. Hint: it wasn't about organics and synthetics.

The majority however, as Merizan found, did not want more post ending content. That means we have a silent majority that likes the ending or is indifferent.

There are plenty of people who get it but don't like it.

And even if the vast majority of critics didn't "get it", that still means the ending failed to clearly portray the so-called obvious structure and themes that you bring up. That in itself is a huge flaw.

If you're looking for a debate, you don't need to be passive aggressive to find one. Also helps to drop the condescending insults, just an FYI.

[PsyrenY]

I guess you could call me a "pro-ender" but I think txgoldrush is being bit harsh. I definitely agree Bioware dropped the ball execution-wise so I can understand to some extent why people were hurt. Not so much the anti-ender tendency to point to every question mark as Endor Holocaust, but the desire for something better than what we got I was fully behind.

If there was ever a time the majority of fans spoke out with one voice, it was prior to Extended Cut. There I could definitely agree with everyone who stood up and said "not good enough," and I counted myself among them. The vocal majority was the Retake movement itself.

But after EC, I think the base shattered. Some were appeased. Some were still upset, but resigned that this was going to be Bioware's final word on the matter and moved on. Some swore off Bioware (or at least, pre-ordering Bioware) for life. Some thought Refusal was a great addition. Some thought it was a trolling attempt. Some rejected the whole mess and made MEHEM. etc.

The point I'm trying to make is that our one time where we could be sure of the "majority" has passed, now that Retake is over and done with. The base is now too fragmented to ever know what the majority wants. Bioware has numbers of their own but they (rightfully) are holding them close; they have nothing to gain by pointing out how bad or even how good things really are with DLC sales, game completions and what have you.

Right now, the only indicator we will have of how the fanbase truly stands is with ME4. (Or MENext or whatever they plan on calling it.)

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 25 avril 2013 - 06:41 .

[txgoldrush]

MegaSovereign wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

There are the pro-enders (or post EC pro enders), the smart people who got all along that ME3 was about victory through sacrifice and the entire game was about the prices people must pay to achieve success, which the ending definitely reflects. Smart pro enders realize that "organics vs synthetics" was the context, not the conflict, and that the Catalyst was a subversion or even downright inversion of the deus ex machina.

Then there are the anti enders who completely ignored the story and its themes, ignored the foreshadowing of the ending, both by structure and thematically, and simply make up bizarre theories for something as straightforward as the ending. Hell, the vast majority of anti enders chasing the organics vs synthetics idiot ball proves that they simply didn't get the actual conflict. Hint: it wasn't about organics and synthetics.

The majority however, as Merizan found, did not want more post ending content. That means we have a silent majority that likes the ending or is indifferent.

There are plenty of people who get it but don't like it.

And even if the vast majority of critics didn't "get it", that still means the ending failed to clearly portray the so-called obvious structure and themes that you bring up. That in itself is a huge flaw.

If you're looking for a debate, you don't need to be passive aggressive to find one. Also helps to drop the condescending insults, just an FYI.

Actually it did.....find the point of arguments that Shepard makes with both TIM and the Catalyst. Its not that hard.

Simply put, both were forcibly sacrificing people against their will to achieve their goals, and thats why Shepard opposes them. Not because he or she disagrees with their views. Their views really don't even matter, only their methods.

[txgoldrush]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I guess you could call me a "pro-ender" but I think txgoldrush is being bit harsh. I definitely agree Bioware dropped the ball execution-wise so I can understand to some extent why people were hurt. Not so much the anti-ender tendency to point to every question mark as Endor Holocaust, but the desire for something better than what we got I was fully behind.

If there was ever a time the majority of fans spoke out with one voice, it was prior to Extended Cut. There I could definitely agree with everyone who stood up and said "not good enough," and I counted myself among them. The vocal majority was the Retake movement itself.

But after EC, I think the base shattered. Some were appeased. Some were still upset, but resigned that this was going to be Bioware's final word on the matter and moved on. Some swore off Bioware (or at least, pre-ordering Bioware) for life. Some thought Refusal was a great addition. Some thought it was a trolling attempt. Some rejected the whole mess and made MEHEM. etc.

The point I'm trying to make is that our one time where we could be sure of the "majority" has passed, now that Retake is over and done with. The base is now too fragmented to ever know what the majority wants. Bioware has numbers of their own but they (rightfully) are holding them close; they have nothing to gain by pointing out how bad or even how good things really are with DLC sales, game completions and what have you.

Right now, the only indicator we will have of how the fanbase truly stands is with ME4. (Or MENext or whatever they plan on calling it.)

The original ending, of course, Bioware dropped the ball execution wise....one of the biggest faults was actually not explaining the origins of the Catalyst, which turns out to be pretty huge thematically when the EC came about. Then there is of course the fates of the characters. However, Bioware manned up and fixed it, just like CDPRed manned up and fixed their faulty The Witcher 2 ending, and really, Ken Levine needs to man up and fix Bioshock Infinite's ending (and fix the second half plot holes).

[MegaSovereign]

@txgoldrush

The Arrival DLC got pretty mixed reception. It wasn't because people didn't get it.

Some people don't like the theme of "victory through sacrifice." And Mass Effect has, on several occasions, given players an optimal third option out of catch 22 scenarios. It's not unreasonable that people would have these expectations going into the finale of the trilogy.

Personally, always having an optimal option would devalue the choices...so I actually have no problems with this structure. I'm just aware that there are quite a few people who do.

[SilJeff]

There is no way to know if you are in the "majority" or not unless you work for Bioware and can see the data.

So there is no need to pretend that you know that most hated (because not 100% of every ME3 owner is here) or most liked it. There is no way to prove either way

[txgoldrush]

MegaSovereign wrote...

@txgoldrush

The Arrival DLC got pretty mixed reception. It wasn't because people didn't get it.

Some people don't like the theme of "victory through sacrifice." And Mass Effect has, on several occasions, given players an optimal third option out of catch 22 scenarios. It's not unreasonable that people would have these expectations going into the finale of the trilogy.

Personally, always having an optimal option would devalue the choices...so I actually have no problems with this structure. I'm just aware that there are quite a few people who do.

Well too bad for those that don't like it...its not a democracy, thats what Bioware went with. And even optimal catch 22 scenarios involved sacrifice.

Nevermind sacrifice was always a big theme throughout the trilogy. The three biggest ME1 decisions involved sacrifice.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 avril 2013 - 07:03 .

[PsyrenY]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Personally, always having an optimal option would devalue the choices...so I actually have no problems with this structure. I'm just aware that there are quite a few people who do.

I'm glad you see it that way. I only wish more of the fanbase did.

[OmegaXI]

Yes they are the minority but they yelled the loudest, threatened, insulted, complained, and also detrailed lots of good threads thinking they could do something about it by being rude to people and hateful (these same peopel couldn't make a game or work in the industry if their life depended on it). And honestly all they did was spend maybe $60 on game and thats it.

Then to top it off they tried telling people how to do their jobs when they themselves haven't made a game or wrote anything worth while, heck some of them left me wondering if they did anything but camp out at their computer just to complain on BSNI, I mean really no job or what?

They liked to use big words and say what they would do or how they could do it or how so many people would follow them or back them. But this was their inflated ego because it it was true they would have gone to www.kickstarter.com and all of those Internet Spartacus' wannabes would have made everyone the awesome game that they could have made if they actually put time into anything but complaining..... but no nothing far easier to cry and compain and thinking they know whats best on the internet.

But those who actually acted mature and provided real feed back besides "I hate Bioware" or "Endings Suck your stupid to like them", Well those people who made lists and spoke actual conversation with with real critics and not blind immature hate well I have to tip my hat too

*tips hat*

Because those people helped get us the EC and DLC like the Citadel : ) and to those people I thank you very much for your efforts and mature conversations, while the rest.....lets just say the world won't miss you and no one cares

; )

[AlexMBrennan]

(these same peopel couldn't make a game or work in the industry if their life depended on it). And honestly all they did was spend maybe $60 on game and thats it.

I'm sure you wouldn't be able to get a job in a Michelin restaurant yet I'm sure that you would complain if they served you burnt food.

Because those people helped get us the EC

Keep dreaming. We got the EC because Bioware had to silence critisism immediately following the release of the game and because people were demanding (and getting) refunds from Amazon.

[ObserverStatus]

OmegaXI wrote...
Then to top it off they tried telling people how to do their jobs when they themselves haven't made a game or wrote anything worth while, heck some of them left me wondering if they did anything but camp out at their computer just to complain on BSNI, I mean really no job or what?
; )

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't dislike food from somewhere if you can't cook?

[Mangalores]

Auld Wulf wrote...

...

It's also relevant to point out that it's an ending that encourages and is worth introspection and philosophical examination. If you don't do that/don't want to do that, then you're not going to get a lot out of the experience, ultimately. If you've ever looked at a really weird bit of art and wondered just what exactly was going through the artist's mind at the time then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

...

No it doesn't, no it isn't. If it were, it would have been good and have no structural disconnects and contradictions. Good art can be what you say, but good art does know what it wants to tell you and follows its path all the way down. ME3 is a Hollywood action flick that thought it needs to go deep at the last minute but doesn't have the meat on the bones to do that.

One could say it is the perfect Matrix rip off, including the bad pseudo philosophic ending, absent the good inspiring first part that made it into media art classrooms because it had the story structured through from the broad concepts down to details. The second and third parts then were brainless SF action flicks. Sounds familiar?

Edit: Oh and if I say Matrix 1 was deepe I obviously mean in the relative low requirements of the movie entertainment industry. But it shows how you underpin an entire movie with meaningful symbolism so none can call you out on not having thought this through.

Modifié par Mangalores, 25 avril 2013 - 07:54 .