351 réponses à ce sujet

[Indy_S]

bobobo878 wrote...

OmegaXI wrote...
Then to top it off they tried telling people how to do their jobs when they themselves haven't made a game or wrote anything worth while, heck some of them left me wondering if they did anything but camp out at their computer just to complain on BSNI, I mean really no job or what?
; )

Isn't that a bit like saying you can't dislike food from somewhere if you can't cook?

More like saying you can't dislike foul air because you're incapable of photosynthesis.

[OmegaXI]

AlexMBrennan wrote...
I'm sure you wouldn't be able to get a job in a Michelin restaurant yet I'm sure that you would complain if they served you burnt food.

Because those people helped get us the EC

Keep dreaming. We got the EC because Bioware had to silence critisism immediately following the release of the game and because people were demanding (and getting) refunds from Amazon.

To the first this is a Fallacious Comparison, incompatiable analogy, or a Faulty Comparision which is used in debates that are more based on opinions rather than facts.


To the 2nd point; Yes just like any other purchase from Amazon within the first 30 days if you are unhappy with the product
http://www.amazon.co...creative=390957

Modifié par OmegaXI, 25 avril 2013 - 08:31 .

[Dieb]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

I'm sure you wouldn't be able to get a job in a Michelin restaurant yet I'm sure that you would complain if they served you burnt food.

I have to say I'm quite surprised about this atypically misguided comparison, by you of all people.

You would complain about it - if it were indeed burnt. But you wouldn't tell the chef how to cook it or what ingredients to use; to change its taste into what you like best. (Or threaten the restaurant's promoter with physical violence.)

I don't deny that it's sometimes hard to distinguish between preference and quality in issues like these.

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Keep dreaming. We got the EC because Bioware had to silence critisism immediately following the release of the game and because people were demanding (and getting) refunds from Amazon.

And what are their means of silencing it, really?

People didn't like their version of an ending, so they gave them their version of an explanation. Bear in mind that the furious ending critics they wanted to silence with this, are the minority according to BioWare. Given the nought-appreciation and ignorance towards the work involved -in relation to the scope of intended target audience- this will highly likely never happen again.

No intention to be so snotty, but... Amazon is Amazon, correct.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 avril 2013 - 09:06 .

[CSunkyst]

The ACTUAL majority are people who started the series with ME3 and didn't finish the game in the first place, or started with ME3 finished thought it was kinda stupid but didn't really care because they were just killing time till the next Assassins Creed game anyway.

So the true majority is indifference.

Out of the portion of players that DID care (the fans) I'd say the VAST majority of them despised the ending. Many of them have since given up on the series/moved on to other games.

Then there's a smattering of people who are "OKish" with the endings.

Finally you have a small fraction of dumb fans who "love" the ending and willingly slobber all over anything a franchise does JUST because it has a Mass Effect logo stamped on it. These people either lack or willfully suppress any kind of critical thought because they can't bear to not love something associated with their favorite fiction. The bulk (but not all) of Synthesis fans fall into this group because it is the Bioware approved "best" ending.

For more examples on this type of ""fan"" see "Star Wars prequel apologists" for more info.

Modifié par CSunkyst, 25 avril 2013 - 08:28 .

[Dieb]

CSunkyst wrote...

Finally you have a small fraction of dumb fans who "love" the ending and willingly slobber all over anything a franchise does JUST because it has a Mass Effect logo stamped on it. These people either lack or willfully suppress any kind of critical thought because they can't bear to not love something associated with their favorite fiction. The bulk (but not all) of Synthesis fans fall into this group because it is the Bioware approved "best" ending.

For more examples on this type of ""fan"" see "Star Wars prequel apologists" for more info.

What an awful thing to say.

Do you just want another thread to capsize? Pervert it into another argument about which faction of fans is the smartest?

[CSunkyst]

Baelrahn wrote...

CSunkyst wrote...

Finally you have a small fraction of dumb fans who "love" the ending and willingly slobber all over anything a franchise does JUST because it has a Mass Effect logo stamped on it. These people either lack or willfully suppress any kind of critical thought because they can't bear to not love something associated with their favorite fiction. The bulk (but not all) of Synthesis fans fall into this group because it is the Bioware approved "best" ending.

For more examples on this type of ""fan"" see "Star Wars prequel apologists" for more info.

What an awful thing to say.

Do you just want another thread to capsize? Pervert it into another argument about which faction of fans is the smartest?

No, I'm just in a bad mood

[Redbelle]

Question.

How many anti enders here liked the finale to the Citadel DLC?

I ask because of something someone else said a page or two back. BW got the execution wrong for the main campaign's ending.

By contrast, the fight in the hanger bay where you not only have a battle, but then see the hanger door open up so that the backdrop of the fight was citadel structures racing by was very satisfying. And Shepard's final words before dropping back into the main campaign were more poigniant than anything served up during the ending. (Except pehaps Anderson's final moment's).

[CSunkyst]

Redbelle wrote...

Question.

How many anti enders here liked the finale to the Citadel DLC?

I ask because of something someone else said a page or two back. BW got the execution wrong for the main campaign's ending.

By contrast, the fight in the hanger bay where you not only have a battle, but then see the hanger door open up so that the backdrop of the fight was citadel structures racing by was very satisfying. And Shepard's final words before dropping back into the main campaign were more poigniant than anything served up during the ending. (Except pehaps Anderson's final moment's).

Can't say, other than watching the EC on Youtube, since finishing the core game I've had zero interest in any further content.  I can't even enjoy ME1 or 2 anymore because the series feels like one long depressing funeral march now. 

[Alien Number Six]

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

[CaIIisto]

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

Like f**k she didn't......

[Alien Number Six]

Until I see otherwise I don't count the breath scene as proof Shepard lived. I'm hoping BioWare delivers a DLC like Arrival before the release of the next Mass Effect game that reveals what really happens to Shepard at the end of Mass Effect 3.

[Dieb]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Until I see otherwise I don't count the breath scene as proof Shepard lived. I'm hoping BioWare delivers a DLC like Arrival before the release of the next Mass Effect game that reveals what really happens to Shepard at the end of Mass Effect 3.

Alien Number Six wrote...
The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow.

This is probably super-petty, but can you explain what you mean exactly?

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 avril 2013 - 10:59 .

[Applepie_Svk]

If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth. /Goebbles/

[Yestare7]

Bester76 wrote...

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

Like f**k she didn't......

F twice.

Here's the ending to my game:

[NorDee65]

Does it really matter to know an aproximate number of people who despised the ending? Statistics are usuallly skewered if not faked, and basing everything on a statistic Bioware/EA made or ordered or whatever is doubtful at best. (From the names of people currently posting on this here forum I'd think that most of those critically inclined have lost interest permanently or - like me - only show up rarely.)

To get a feel of how deeply people are fed up not just with the ending of ME 3 but the whole direction the industry is taking (in connection with ME the cincher is not just the ending, but the detraction of role-playing-elements, of choice) one should take a look at how readily people are taking to crowd-funded games. After realising that Bioware/EA are not exactly making the games I want to play anymore I was depressed, as my game-tastes are rather eclectic. But now with games like Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, and Torment: Tides of Numenera all successfully funded (and lord, did I back!!!), I am content again. And for me, that "success" stems - at least partly - from the ending fiasco of ME 3. In the forseeable future, for me they will be only  one AAA-game (Dragon Age 3) and at least 3 niche-games. All in all, not so bad.
Anymore...

[Redbelle]

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

I've heard alot of people say "The ending made us think......"

What? Do we not think enough already? Is video game media designed to incite philosophy and no one got round to telling me?

Is this medium not part of the entertainment industry, the same industry that spawned Bioshock Infinite that, likewise, incited thought, yet also entertained? Comparitively speaking does ME3's ending match Bioshocks?

Before people go with this whole thought experiment thang they'd better take a step back and look at what a video game is supposed to be before looking at what it has the potential to become.

ME3's ending lacked conhesive narration on two front's. One was the sequence of event's portreyed, through which character's moved from A to B. The second was the thematic content. Org's vs Synth's was a stroyline that was dealt with on Rannoch. Indeed, it is no small mishap that by taking the Geth/Quarian theme and expanding it fit the main campaign, the event's of Rannoch are, by and large, overwritten in place of a grander overarching theme that is greater in scope, but still fundamentally falls into the category of Org's vs Synth's. The Krogan, by comparison, get away scott free from this thematic direction.

Normally I wouldn't take the time to point this out, buuuuut...... this is BW. They live and die by their skill to take a plot, add narrative and character's, then allow the sequence of event's to unfold. The ending, as it unfolds, overlaid past narrative, introduced a badly portreyed and executed character to carry the ending and left us with more question's than answer's to which there are so few clues that we keep getting into these discussion's...... I've seen a poster swear blind that the ending meant this, another says the ending meant that, all has the evidence as seen in the game and yet no comprehensive resolving of the ending has ever occured.

The only theory that ever held sway was IT till BW stopped making DLC and put that theory to bed.

Simply put, an ending should not generate this much argument. An ending should be clear in it's intent and executed so as to carry the player's along with the logic that it presents. ME3's ending has been likened to Deus Ex's. In Deus Ex's ending there were an ensemble of character's to carry the distinct theme's of how to end the game, therefore allowing the player to perfonify an ending with a character. The Catalyst, by attempting to represent all possible endings, comes across as a confused and uncaring AI who has been cast by players as incredibly dumb.

ME3's ending was badly written and executed. An opinion that gain's weight as the ECDLC took major plotting pitfalls and went out of it's way to rectify the,  Any thoughts on the thematic content on the ending, while interesting for their POV's, are ultimately never going to resolve themselves. Why? Because the ending failed in many ways, execution, content, characterisation, theme etc, etc. And reading through other posts I see people point out a flaw, then see another poster counter with an unrelated topic, or just allude that they are deficient in understanding. <facepalm>.

It's not hard to view the ending as it is. It simply could have been presented better. Alot better. But the dark energy ending was thrown out. A new one written as dead lines loomed and what they put on our screen is now what we are stuck with. Trying to make out that the ending is the best thing ever to grace a pc screen however is lolworthy. I've seen better, from a variety of other media on theme's similar to ME's.

Modifié par Redbelle, 25 avril 2013 - 11:55 .

[Bizinha]

Well, I did not like the ending but I believe it is the right of the author make this end.
I made this topic because of the people I know, none of them liked.
Even my husband who did not play (He only saw I playing), even faint red and blue bad.
I have a friend who only played ME3, and found too weak.

[Tibbur]

Yes such a small minority they had to delay the dlc schedule to make the EC

[Iakus]

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

I can get that reading a newspaper, watching the news on tv, or heck, reading a history book.  When I play a videogame, I expect to be entertained.  Not to be told "sad truths" or be forced to perform terrible acts on the galaxy to prove there is no good in it, only the evil you're willing to permit.


To use your Return of the Jedi example:  You don't tack Saw to the end of the Star Wars trilogy and call it a job well-done.

[MrFob]

iakus wrote...

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

I can get that reading a newspaper, watching the news on tv, or heck, reading a history book.  When I play a videogame, I expect to be entertained.  Not to be told "sad truths" or be forced to perform terrible acts on the galaxy to prove there is no good in it, only the evil you're willing to permit.


To use your Return of the Jedi example:  You don't tack Saw to the end of the Star Wars trilogy and call it a job well-done.

Well, I wouldn't even make that distinction. I think video games have the potential to raise these kinds of questions, to make people think and to tackle difficult moral issues. They can even mix this with entertainment. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a great example for this IMO. However, the game itself needs to reflect that. The story needs to build up to this and the player must be led into this kind of situation. Only then can such a choice be meaningful and only then can you really engage your audience.
The way I played the ME trilogy, it was not that kind of story. The moral dilemma, the difficult choice and their implications come out of the blue. For me they were completely unexpected and disjointed from the rest of the story. That robbed the ending of any meaning for me. Any potential deeper meaning gets lost in the thunder with which the narrative comes crashing down.
I don't know, maybe Alien Number Six, Aud Wulf and others see this complete break in the plot as a means to shock the player into thinking harder about the problem that is presented? If so, it certainly didn't work for me because I was busy thinking about this trilogy, which followed a very traditional narrative structure so far, could suddenly just loose all its cohesion.
IMO the problem with the ending is not that it is dark or that it puts Shepard into a difficult, even horrible position. The problem was that all of this came without any lead-in and without any connection to the rest of the story. The fact that it was full of logical fallacies and ultimately reiterated a problem that was already solved within the main plot didn't help either.

So yes, video game developers, please engage us, make us think about things, ask difficult questions and put us players in tough moral positions. But please make up your minds about this in the beginning of your projects, not in the last 5 minutes. Please do so with foresight and a plan. If that is the case, I am looking forward to be entertained and have my perspectives challenged.

(BTW, in that sense, iakus, your example with Star Wars and Saw is well chosen.)

Modifié par MrFob, 25 avril 2013 - 02:06 .

[Xilizhra]

iakus wrote...

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

I can get that reading a newspaper, watching the news on tv, or heck, reading a history book.  When I play a videogame, I expect to be entertained.  Not to be told "sad truths" or be forced to perform terrible acts on the galaxy to prove there is no good in it, only the evil you're willing to permit.


To use your Return of the Jedi example:  You don't tack Saw to the end of the Star Wars trilogy and call it a job well-done.

Maybe it's my lack of reservations on two of the endings, but while I don't dismiss people who are this depressed over the ending, I don't really understand why they are, instead of finding ways to interpret the ending that matches their own desires. I've come up with ways for Shepard to come back after Control, Ieldra found a way for Synthesis, and none of the EC slides show anything going terribly wrong, so... why believe that terribly wrong things are happening anyway and that it must be bad, therefore you must remain depressed over it? I just don't understand it.

[Headcount]

BW knows they screwed up but will never admit it. They'll be counting on time healing all wounds and just be happy if their next ME game breaks even. The positive things that might come out of this is that even EA won't be pushing BW to rush out their next game (one can dream right?) and all endings will be peer-reviewed.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

I can get that reading a newspaper, watching the news on tv, or heck, reading a history book.  When I play a videogame, I expect to be entertained.  Not to be told "sad truths" or be forced to perform terrible acts on the galaxy to prove there is no good in it, only the evil you're willing to permit.

To use your Return of the Jedi example:  You don't tack Saw to the end of the Star Wars trilogy and call it a job well-done.

Your analogies always make me chuckle, iakus. 

I expect to be engaged by narratives, and I'm much happier when that doesn't rely on indulging baser urges.

[Obadiah]

Alien Number Six wrote...

I'm with Auld Wulf. The ending made you think. It wasn't the sugar coated candy entertainment most know and love. It was not handed to us on a silver platter wrapped in a bow. I can understand some are angry about it. Many of us expected a Return of the Jedi like wrap up. Instead Shepard didn't make it out alive. I fought a war and thought the ending conveyed the saddest truth of war that most try not to think about. War costs lives and sometimes even the best don't make it out alive......

That's what I thought.

Also, I was pretty cool with the galactic reset to civilization vibe. Bascially, Shepard and the Council won the war to allow life the flourish without being influenced by the Reapers, with one of three major changes.

There was a lot of stuff on these forums about suffering and death (with associated detailed rationales as to why) and atrocities (again, with associated detailed rationales as to why) which I pretty much did not agree with and thought was complete bull****. My imagination went in the opposite direction on how the survivors would build thousands of new civilization in all of those more isolated areas.

I'd have liked to have talked about that, but anytime someone brought that up on these forums, the thread would just get overtaken with "well I hated the ending" and "the game ruined for me" responses. At least the Synthesis thread rode that one out.

Modifié par Obadiah, 25 avril 2013 - 02:51 .

[dorktainian]

Headcount wrote...


BW knows they screwed up but will never admit it. They'll be counting on time healing all wounds and just be happy if their next ME game breaks even. The positive things that might come out of this is that even EA won't be pushing BW to rush out their next game (one can dream right?) and all endings will be peer-reviewed.

   


anyone who witnessed the meltdown on these forums, as well as twitter and facebook when the game came out will know bioware dropped the ball big style.  The EC just makes matters worse imo.

Do they deserve another chance?