351 réponses à ce sujet

[Brovikk Rasputin]

The people who don't like the endings at this point are indeed a very loud minority.

[Kais Endac]

tbh I've always considered both pro and anti to be the vocal minority especially on BSN. The vast majority of players are either casual gamers (in which case they will play and move on) or they played the game and had no strong opinion about the endings.

If these endings had been to another game that I had not invested so much time (and enjoyment) on I would likely have said "meh" and moved on. The endings themselves aren't terrible but for a game that spans three chapters and relies on alot of investment on the players part, I did not feel the payoff was that great other than the obvious victory. Speculation is all well and good in the right place, but for me it is not how to end a trilogy.

Modifié par Kais Endac, 25 avril 2013 - 10:07 .

[MrFob]

@txgoldrush: Obviously the problem has "come up" before, as I said, IMO it even was concluded (see below as well). What I mean is that - at least in some, dare I say possibly most playthroughs - this kind of moral dilemma without a satisfactory solution doesn't fit (see Megasovereign's comment earlier in this thread). ME1 and 2 and almost all of 3 (without the ending) gives you the chance to play it as a classic epic story with Shepard being a classic hero. It is, as I said, a very conservative narrative structure. It's not the only way to experience the game but it is one that is heavily encouraged and as far as I am concerned they should have provided a fitting ending for this kind of story.

@chemiclord : Maybe, you can assume that problems can still occur but that is not the point of my argument. Maybe it would have been clearer to say that the plot was concluded rather than to say that the problem was solved. The theme was taken care of in the rannoch arch. From the very beginning of trilogy, the organic/synthetic story focused on the quarians and the geth. Maybe, one could even make the argument that in ME1, the reaper plot was still very much tied to that theme but ME2 actually does a very good job of separating them. IMO, it is not good style to use the exact same paradigm for two major plotlines, especially if the author is not even mentioning a connection between the two.

I don't know, maybe the ending theme would have worked better if the player didn't have a chance of brokering a peace between the geth and the quarians but if they had to desrtoy one faction to save another. This might have strengthened the catalysts argument and it would have set a precedent where Shepard is not the ideal her (although I'd still say that his comes too late in the trilogy). However, given that the option exists, and given the rest of the story, the ending is too disjointed from the main plot to offer a meaningful choice, IMO.

[AresKeith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The people who don't like the endings at this point are indeed a very loud minority.

In your opinion and wrong

[The Night Mammoth]

chemiclord wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Well that's conjecture. 

I can't speak for txgoldrush(sp?), but for me... yes; it's just conjecture on my part.

But I think it's conjecture with a foundation on how people are, and how people behave both socially and as individuals.  We are, as a rule, EXTREMELY slow to trust, and that trust comes even slower as the groups become larger.  "Peace" doesn't just "happen"; it takes time, often several generations, for the animosity to finally dwindle to the point that's it not a significant factor in the lives of those involved.

Even if I were to accept that the geth could just drop it all (something for which I am EXTREMELY dubious... Legion, for example, demonstrates it is more than capable of bearing sentiment, both positive AND negative)... I don't know how anyone could think the quarians could do the same.

All it would take is one spark (and there is a small handful of survivors on BOTH sides that would be more than capable of it), and all that work is completely undone.

As a counterpoint to the Catalyst's conclusion, it is a VERY feeble one.

I didn't take issue with anything you said, I should have taken out the quote to apologies. 

I actually agree, for the most part. If you're looking at it in realistic terms then no, this most likely isn't the end of hostilities between the geth and the quarians. I think of it less as Shepard solving the problem and more of enabling them to solve it themselves. Being set on the right path, basically. 

However, I've long stopped really looking at the Catalyst's problem in logical terms. There's not enough information to go on. Now I just think about what the meaning behind it all was. What was the point of uniting the geth and the quarians, if what the Catalyst says ends up being true? Wouldn't that invalidate not only that outcome, which has since become one of the pillars of ME3, but a whole lot of related material? It's conflicting, and I'm more inclined to side with EDI and the Rannoch arc. 

I've seen a lot of your posts on the forums talking about respect for the author/developer/artist and I agree entirely, but I've found it very difficult not to fall into a 'I reject your reality' sort of mindset where this part of the story is concerned. 

[Brovikk Rasputin]

AresKeith wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The people who don't like the endings at this point are indeed a very loud minority.

In your opinion and wrong

Nope, facts. Bioware even confirmed it. I know it's hard to accept, but after a year, now seems like the right time.

[The Night Mammoth]

BioWare are about the last group I'd be looking to if I wanted confirmation about this particular topic.

I don't, since it doesn't matter a jot anymore and the EC was released because enough people whined and moaned about it, but yeah, no credibility in this case.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 25 avril 2013 - 10:30 .

[dreamgazer]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Nope, facts. Bioware even confirmed it. I know it's hard to accept, but after a year, now seems like the right time.

Fantastic! If you could link a source, I'm sure plenty of people would be very grateful to have this information.

[txgoldrush]

deleted post

Modifié par txgoldrush, 25 avril 2013 - 10:31 .

[txgoldrush]

MrFob wrote...

@txgoldrush: Obviously the problem has "come up" before, as I said, IMO it even was concluded (see below as well). What I mean is that - at least in some, dare I say possibly most playthroughs - this kind of moral dilemma without a satisfactory solution doesn't fit (see Megasovereign's comment earlier in this thread). ME1 and 2 and almost all of 3 (without the ending) gives you the chance to play it as a classic epic story with Shepard being a classic hero. It is, as I said, a very conservative narrative structure. It's not the only way to experience the game but it is one that is heavily encouraged and as far as I am concerned they should have provided a fitting ending for this kind of story.

@chemiclord : Maybe, you can assume that problems can still occur but that is not the point of my argument. Maybe it would have been clearer to say that the plot was concluded rather than to say that the problem was solved. The theme was taken care of in the rannoch arch. From the very beginning of trilogy, the organic/synthetic story focused on the quarians and the geth. Maybe, one could even make the argument that in ME1, the reaper plot was still very much tied to that theme but ME2 actually does a very good job of separating them. IMO, it is not good style to use the exact same paradigm for two major plotlines, especially if the author is not even mentioning a connection between the two.

I don't know, maybe the ending theme would have worked better if the player didn't have a chance of brokering a peace between the geth and the quarians but if they had to desrtoy one faction to save another. This might have strengthened the catalysts argument and it would have set a precedent where Shepard is not the ideal her (although I'd still say that his comes too late in the trilogy). However, given that the option exists, and given the rest of the story, the ending is too disjointed from the main plot to offer a meaningful choice, IMO.

In ME3, even the best outcomes all throughout the game had sacrifice. Nevermind the three big decision in ME1 required or involved sacrifice, or ME2's opening, or the theme shifting ME2 Arrival DLC. Its thematically consistant, you just don't want it to be. Nevermind even with the ending, its still a classic hero story, and if you think about it, Shepard was the "Deus Ex Machina" to the Catalyst.

Sorry its not a JRPG ending where four noble youths have the power to defeat an overpowerful evil god. They meant it when they said the Reapers are too powerful to beat conventionally.

[AresKeith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

The people who don't like the endings at this point are indeed a very loud minority.

In your opinion and wrong

Nope, facts. Bioware even confirmed it. I know it's hard to accept, but after a year, now seems like the right time.

Do you have any proof of this or do you just like to act smug and claim your statements as fact

[The Night Mammoth]

dreamgazer wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Nope, facts. Bioware even confirmed it. I know it's hard to accept, but after a year, now seems like the right time.

Fantastic! If you could link a source, I'm sure plenty of people would be very grateful to have this information.

I'm pretty sure this confirmation was just a vague tweet from Jessica Merizan about 'statistics' 'they' had. No source or actual data or even a confident assertion were stated. 

Could be wrong though, but if BioWare actually came out with a statement then I think it would a bigger deal, and you and I would know about it. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 25 avril 2013 - 10:34 .

[txgoldrush]

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...
 If there's anyone arguing about ME3's being the worst ending of videogame history, I recommend finishing the original Dungeon Siege.

I always say KotOR 2. But I never got past the DS demo.

I played KOTOR2 years before the restoration mod.

The ending was pretty wtf-inducing.

But, imo, it still doesn't hold a candle to the sheer badness of the ME3 ending.

Bioshock Infinite's ending is far worse than ME3s.

[txgoldrush]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Nope, facts. Bioware even confirmed it. I know it's hard to accept, but after a year, now seems like the right time.

Fantastic! If you could link a source, I'm sure plenty of people would be very grateful to have this information.

I'm pretty sure this confirmation was just a vague tweet from Jessica Merizan about 'statistics' 'they' had. No source or actual data or even a confident assertion were stated. 

Could be wrong though, but if BioWare actually came out with a statement then I think it would a bigger deal, and you and I would know about it. 

Just accept it...

She also said that even IF the majority still disliked the endingm they would not change it further.

[txgoldrush]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Nope, facts. Bioware even confirmed it. I know it's hard to accept, but after a year, now seems like the right time.

Fantastic! If you could link a source, I'm sure plenty of people would be very grateful to have this information.

I'm pretty sure this confirmation was just a vague tweet from Jessica Merizan about 'statistics' 'they' had. No source or actual data or even a confident assertion were stated. 

Could be wrong though, but if BioWare actually came out with a statement then I think it would a bigger deal, and you and I would know about it. 

Just accept it...

She also said that even IF the majority still disliked the endingm they would not change it further.

[RukiaKuchki]

The only true fact is that the vast majority of people didn't even finish the game and experience the ending. I can't remember the exact number, but wasn't it something like only 30%? Maybe less? From that, one can infer that the vast majority of people who bought the game don't really care. I'd concede that a portion of those who failed to finish the game didn't because the game was ruined for them by the ending hate on the internet, but this is an inference and not a fact. Most people don't finish most games, for whatever reason. As important as its members would like to think they are, the BSN only represents a small portion of those who play Bioware games. And those same disgruntled BSN members are the same ones who have been racing from website to website to vote in the ending polls. The polls are fun but meaningless. The only thing that has meaning is your own opinion. If you require some internet poll to validate your own opinion...

[The Night Mammoth]

txgoldrush wrote...

Bioshock Infinite's ending is far worse than ME3s.

Lolno. 

It actually ties everything up in a neat little bow whilst fulfilling its own premise and goals, whilst leaving plenty of room for the much sought after speculation. 

In my opinion.

[txgoldrush]

Liara's romance scene can foreshadow the ending.

[The Night Mammoth]

txgoldrush wrote...

Just accept it...

Why? I don't care anymore, so some employees vague tweets aren't going to stir me anymore. 

She also said that even IF the majority still disliked the endingm they would not change it further.

Okay? I don't care about that either. I never asked them to change the ending in the first place. 

[txgoldrush]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Bioshock Infinite's ending is far worse than ME3s.

Lolno. 

It actually ties everything up in a neat little bow whilst fulfilling its own premise and goals, whilst leaving plenty of room for the much sought after speculation. 

In my opinion.

No, its a plot hole ridden mess of a game with a conclusion so forced and arbitary. Easily the worst Bioshock game.

This article discusses how much BI fails.

http://inanage.com/2...-infinite-plot/

[The Night Mammoth]

txgoldrush wrote...

Just accept it...

She also said that even IF the majority still disliked the endingm they would not change it further.

Why? I don't care anymore, and I never asked them to change the ending in the first place, so I don't care about that either. 

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

Bioshock Infinite's ending is far worse than ME3s.

Hahahahaha

No.

Infinite didn't have what I would call a "good" ending, but it didn't retroactively destroy the previous 2 games or suddenly change the plot at the last second. Nevermind that Infinite's ending was actually foreshadowed.

[AresKeith]

txgoldrush wrote...

iakus wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...
 If there's anyone arguing about ME3's being the worst ending of videogame history, I recommend finishing the original Dungeon Siege.

I always say KotOR 2. But I never got past the DS demo.

I played KOTOR2 years before the restoration mod.

The ending was pretty wtf-inducing.

But, imo, it still doesn't hold a candle to the sheer badness of the ME3 ending.

Bioshock Infinite's ending is far worse than ME3s.

lolno

Now your trying too hard

[txgoldrush]

o Ventus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Bioshock Infinite's ending is far worse than ME3s.

Hahahahaha

No.

Infinite didn't have what I would call a "good" ending, but it didn't retroactively destroy the previous 2 games or suddenly change the plot at the last second. Nevermind that Infinite's ending was actually foreshadowed.

and so was ME3s....you point?