351 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

Sauruz wrote...
"what the war truly was"? Man, you know it's a video game, right? Nothing of that actually happened. It only happened because the writers wanted it to happen. And what the writers wanted to happen was just awful.

Well, THAT is a matter of personal opinion.

I personally LIKE war stories that present more of the "there is no winner in war, merely someone who loses less" dynamic.  I'm not a big fan of the glorifying of conflict and deifying of war stories that are more commonplace.

[FlamingBoy]

txgoldrush wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

I'm someone who didn't like Bioshock Infinite's ending (or really just the general plot of the game), but if you're suggesting it even comes close to the soul-crushingly bland and hopeless ending ME3 got, you've got to be kidding.
ME3 was about a hopelessly bleak war. That's not something bad in itself, as long as it pays off. If it doesn't pay off, you just have a depressing story about a war that destroyed a majority of the galaxy. It is baffling why anyone would want to tell such a story or even be involved in such an endeavor. Somehow, that actually happened.

Well thats the point...instead of going to video game cliche and glorify the war and trivalize the cost, it shows what the war truly was.

And no, the ending was pretty hopeful in the EC, except for the worst ones.

The depiction of war in me3 was not a realistic (in terms of plausible beliveability) one, most are the atrocities in the "war" were told to the player by various characters (or worse the codex and dlc), not actually seen.
I spent most of the "war" shooting cerberus troops and doing combat roles, I did not see anything that would classify a real interpretation "war".

It came off as a sob-story, the emotion was not weaved to the narrative it was forced, evidence of shepard feeling down by a child (no there is no way arround this)
It might have been ok (and I use the term ok not great) if such a tone followed to the end, as we all know it did not.

[M Hedonist]

What message did BS:I have?

[Mr.House]

If Infinites ending was so bad and worse then ME3 like txgoldrush is saying, then why did it not cause a crapstorm? Why was it very well received by gamers which resulted in lots of conversations about the ending that where civil. That article, while I disagree with shows this is the case. Read the comments. It's very civil and not really one sided. The Infinite thread on this very site is very civil too. So again, if it's really worse then ME3 which did cause a massive controversy why did this ending not do it?

Also txgoldrush you are being a hypocrite. You didn't get Infinite thus didn't like it, yet you bash people who didn't get BS2 or like ME3s ending?

[txgoldrush]

TheChris92 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

No, Bioshock 2 is actually the best in the series, because it actually says the most. Pay attention to that games ending. Eleanor Lamb basically not only wraps up Bioshock 2 but in the good ending, quite possibly wraps up Rapture itself.

In fact BS2 and Minerva's Den had the MOST to say.

I believe this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. You call Infinite a bad game, because you felt like the plot didn't tell you anything and you didn't find the game had a theme, while at the same time calling out on people for not getting BS2? Yeah, okay - Whatever..
BS2 really did not bring anything to the table. The story of Rapture was closed, over & done with BS1. There really wasn't more to say in that respect. The Prototype Big Daddy wasn't a compelling protagonist, because it didn't have that same close relationship that BS1' Jack had with Ryan & Fontaine. The game was bland & uinteresting.  

BS2 didn't bring anything to the table? Are you kidding?

"because it didn't have that same close relationship that BS1' Jack had with Ryan & Fontaine."

Yes, because he has a close bond to Eleanor Lamb, the CENTRAL character of Bioshock 2. Oh and Infinite, guess what? RECYCLES Bioshock 2's plot.

"BS2 really did not bring anything to the table. The story of Rapture was closed, over & done with BS1. "

BS1 did an absolutely poor job of closing Rapture.

[Kais Endac]

TheChris92 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...


No, its a plot hole ridden mess of a game with a conclusion so forced and arbitary. Easily the worst Bioshock game.

No, that it is not. Fair enough, you don't like the ending, it's not for everyone. I'd say there are many people who interprets the story & its ending in different ways. Linking to an article written by 1 guy doesn't exactly set it in stone as there are many other articles says the opposite to the one you linked. Anyway, I completely disagree with your statement, as I personally found BioShock 2 to be the worst simply because it didn't really say or deliver much.

I personally like Bioshock Infinite's story and ending. I would say there is no problem with the plot or
the themes, but it is the science of the different dimensions that causes the problems. There are infinite ways the plot/ending/science can be interpreted all equally valid, the way that the game has an infinite amount of universes
all differing in subtle (or sometimes not) ways is quite mind boggling and to try to wrap your mind around it would probably cause a meltdown. 

Things like time travel/dimensions always cause problems because of the different ways each can be interpreted. Does traveling back in time actually change the future or create a divergence in the timeline.
Can the past actually be changed, or would it simply create a paradox, or maybe what you changed was meant to happen in which case you changed nothing.

Anyway I'm off topic like has been stated several times both the pro and anti ending crowd are in the minority, since most ME3 players simply haven’t made their opinion known (if they have one considering the completion rate is below 50% of those players Bioware know about). On BSN I would say the split between Pro/Anti/Don't care is probably around 33.3 for each but it’s not really possible to tell considering polls are never concrete.


I think the problem is no-one likes being called a minority because it marginalizes their opinion and makes it seem like they are being ignored in favour of the majority. 

Modifié par Kais Endac, 25 avril 2013 - 11:16 .

[Mr.House]

Sauruz wrote...

What message did BS:I have?

Very simple. How far are you willing to go to undo your sins.

[The Night Mammoth]

Sauruz wrote...

What message did BS:I have?

You can't run from your problems bcause a pair omnipotent british twins know what you did?

Time travel powers make you go a bit loopy? 

Beards cause insanity?

Ghosts are real and so much cooler than Paranormal Activity thinks they are?

Symbolism everywhere? 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 25 avril 2013 - 11:19 .

[txgoldrush]

Mr.House wrote...

If Infinites ending was so bad and worse then ME3 like txgoldrush is saying, then why did it not cause a crapstorm? Why was it very well received by gamers which resulted in lots of conversations about the ending that where civil. That article, while I disagree with shows this is the case. Read the comments. It's very civil and not really one sided. The Infinite thread on this very site is very civil too. So again, if it's really worse then ME3 which did cause a massive controversy why did this ending not do it?

Also txgoldrush you are being a hypocrite. You didn't get Infinite thus didn't like it, yet you bash people who didn't get BS2 or like ME3s ending?

No, I got Infinite's ending.....its just badly flawed.

And the reason for the different reactions is audience......the bioshock audience accepts convoluted  and ambigious endings and twists, the Bioware audience doesn't.

[Clayless]

Mr.House wrote...

If Infinites ending was so bad and worse then ME3 like txgoldrush is saying, then why did it not cause a crapstorm? Why was it very well received by gamers which resulted in lots of conversations about the ending that where civil. That article, while I disagree with shows this is the case. Read the comments. It's very civil and not really one sided. The Infinite thread on this very site is very civil too. So again, if it's really worse then ME3 which did cause a massive controversy why did this ending not do it?

Also txgoldrush you are being a hypocrite. You didn't get Infinite thus didn't like it, yet you bash people who didn't get BS2 or like ME3s ending?

One theory for this is that the Mass Effect fanbase is much worse, and riled each other up in a rabid and disgusting overreaction, perhaps the biggest videogaming overreaction in history, last March.

[AresKeith]

J. Reezy wrote...

If only KotorEffect3 were here...

And Dragoonlordz, Seival, Auld Wulf

[txgoldrush]

Mr.House wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

What message did BS:I have?

Very simple. How far are you willing to go to undo your sins.

Which was really underdeveloped.

Unlike the first two games, Infinite lacks depth in key areas.

[dreamgazer]

Man, I've read some of the strangest things on this forum. Now Bioshock 2 is the best in the series?!

[spirosz]

Mr.House wrote...

If Infinites ending was so bad and worse then ME3 like txgoldrush is saying, then why did it not cause a crapstorm? Why was it very well received by gamers which resulted in lots of conversations about the ending that where civil. That article, while I disagree with shows this is the case. Read the comments. It's very civil and not really one sided. The Infinite thread on this very site is very civil too. So again, if it's really worse then ME3 which did cause a massive controversy why did this ending not do it?

Also txgoldrush you are being a hypocrite. You didn't get Infinite thus didn't like it, yet you bash people who didn't get BS2 or like ME3s ending?

Well, ME3 did and still does have civil arguments, but at the time of release, which is key, it was a ****storm of one-sided drama, unfortunately... I did see a lot of positives with the game and did mention them when appropriate, but I felt that the negative outweighed the positive immensely.

[txgoldrush]

Robosexual wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

If Infinites ending was so bad and worse then ME3 like txgoldrush is saying, then why did it not cause a crapstorm? Why was it very well received by gamers which resulted in lots of conversations about the ending that where civil. That article, while I disagree with shows this is the case. Read the comments. It's very civil and not really one sided. The Infinite thread on this very site is very civil too. So again, if it's really worse then ME3 which did cause a massive controversy why did this ending not do it?

Also txgoldrush you are being a hypocrite. You didn't get Infinite thus didn't like it, yet you bash people who didn't get BS2 or like ME3s ending?

One theory for this is that the Mass Effect fanbase is much worse, and riled each other up in a rabid and disgusting overreaction, perhaps the biggest videogaming overreaction in history, last March.

This....they ar emore concerned about Tali's sweat than actually thinking.....

[spirosz]

dreamgazer wrote...

Man, I've read some of the strangest things on this forum. Now Bioshock 2 is the best in the series?!

I personally prefer a lot of things in Bioshock 2, compared to the first, but as a whole, the third one is my favourite by far, but one and two are brilliant in their own right.  

[o Ventus]

txgoldrush wrote...

BS2 didn't bring anything to the table? Are you kidding?

"because it didn't have that same close relationship that BS1' Jack had with Ryan & Fontaine."

Yes, because he has a close bond to Eleanor Lamb, the CENTRAL character of Bioshock 2. Oh and Infinite, guess what? RECYCLES Bioshock 2's plot.

"BS2 really did not bring anything to the table. The story of Rapture was closed, over & done with BS1. "

BS1 did an absolutely poor job of closing Rapture.

How substantiated and well backed-up these totally objective points are.

[M Hedonist]

chemiclord wrote...

Sauruz wrote...
"what the war truly was"? Man, you know it's a video game, right? Nothing of that actually happened. It only happened because the writers wanted it to happen. And what the writers wanted to happen was just awful.

Well, THAT is a matter of personal opinion.

I personally LIKE war stories that present more of the "there is no winner in war, merely someone who loses less" dynamic.  I'm not a big fan of the glorifying of conflict and deifying of war stories that are more commonplace.

Glorifying war, as in one race fighting another, is just awful. However, when it's a war against unfeeling giant metal squids - why not? Did we really need an overly grim and realistic portrayal of what would happen if the galaxy was attacked by an army of invincible death machines?

[hiraeth]

liggy002 wrote...

They do have secret flowcharts that say we are a minority but we should believe them.... just because.

I wonder what's holding them back from sharing the numbers they have. If they're favorable, then even more reason to share it, right?

I just don't know how they're getting these numbers or who they polled. Were there official polls from Bioware that I just missed? Owning all three games (including ME3 CE) and being a BSN/Origin member, following them on twitter, etc, you'd think I would have heard about an official poll at *some* point if it happened.

[Mr.House]

txgoldrush wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

What message did BS:I have?

Very simple. How far are you willing to go to undo your sins.

Which was really underdeveloped.

Unlike the first two games, Infinite lacks depth in key areas.

BS2 had no depth at all. It was a cash cow.

[o Ventus]

AresKeith wrote...

J. Reezy wrote...

If only KotorEffect3 were here...

And Dragoonlordz, Seival, Auld Wulf

We can't forget BirdSallsa

[txgoldrush]

Mr.House wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

What message did BS:I have?

Very simple. How far are you willing to go to undo your sins.

Which was really underdeveloped.

Unlike the first two games, Infinite lacks depth in key areas.

BS2 had no depth at all. It was a cash cow.

Wrong...absolutely and utterly wrong.

The PAIRBOND had a TON of depth.

[AresKeith]

BS2 wasn't really a bad game but out of the three

BS:I > BS1 >BS2 IMO

[The Night Mammoth]

I wouldn't say it had no depth, they obviously tried to inject some sort of life into it with Lamb being the opposite of Ryan, but overall it felt a lot more hollow than both the others.

Everything about the original tied together better. Ryan's beliefs, ADAM, the downfall of Rapture, the current state of things, it was all connected. 

Number 2 was just taking some kind of interesting ideas and plopping them down into an already established environment. It lacked the same sort of cohesiveness. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 25 avril 2013 - 11:26 .