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[CosmicGnosis]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

This article was linked in the website you linked. Perhaps Synthesis is the first "big" step towards this, considering how widespread it is.

(Relevant to the Universe ending)

That's fascinating, and rather ridiculous. Such is the eternal judgment of Synthesis.

[Wayning_Star]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

N7Gold wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

1. Destruction of all synthetic life. For a time, organics will again be free to exist like they always have. But synthetics will be built again, the conflict will return, and there will be nobody to save organic life. Synthetics will win. Why, then, does the Catalyst accept this as a solution? Well, it doesn't have much of a choice. If Shepard chooses Destroy, the Catalyst can't stop him. It's possible, though, that the Catalyst gives organics the benefit of the doubt. They are, after all, more resourceful than it had realized. There is a small hope that organics will find a solution.

Destroying the Reapers is the right solution to choose. The Reapers made us feel helpless knowing that there will be another organic vs synthetic war if they die off. We have the strength to find our own solutions to conflicts. The Reapers want us to feel weak and helpless just so they can impose their own solution on behalf of the Leviathans. The fact that some of us here have made peace between the geth and quarians proves this.

You know, it's really hard for me to accept Destroy as an empowering and inspirational ending when it involves the destruction of an entire domain of life.

I just don't think it's strong/potent enough. Doesn't go far enough to rid the system of synthetic life, as that is the ends that justifies the means with the destroy choice. The catalyst even warns that they'll be back in one form or another.

Lost resources of the disconnected billions/maybe trillions of harvested seems wasteful as well. Javik could actually be with his lost race as well.. It all is a matter of losing some humanity in one form or another...Ulp.

As far as tilting nature to support eventual survival doesn't really worry me that much, as that is just what intellect does to inanimate objects. Heck, we still build houses out of wood etc.. even now. Billions of years into a future, who knows what might happen? I wonder if we even notice cosmic changes as they occur presently? I've not seen any, but that don't mean they didn't happen. Here on old earth, myth/legend still remain, unanswerable questions, many just lead to other questions, once answered. The game hints at that stuff as well, what with lore and cave drawings stuff.

[darkway1]

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

[Wayning_Star]

darkway1 wrote...

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

what is the threat in the MEU, what is the most potent form of removing that threat?

Think carefully, as intended these are definitively trick questions. (posed by the game it's self)

[darkway1]

Wayning_Star wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

what is the threat in the MEU, what is the most potent form of removing that threat?

Think carefully, as intended these are definitively trick questions. (posed by the game it's self)

...........well how about you just answer the question???....Synthesis kinda works if everyone is happy and placid,one with tech,able to expand one's mind with unlimited resources etc.........but people aren't like that,life isn't like that.........why did Synthesis turn the Reapers nice.?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

darkway1 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

what is the threat in the MEU, what is the most potent form of removing that threat?

Think carefully, as intended these are definitively trick questions. (posed by the game it's self)

...........well how about you just answer the question???....Synthesis kinda works if everyone is happy and placid,one with tech,able to expand one's mind with unlimited resources etc.........but people aren't like that,life isn't like that.........why did Synthesis turn the Reapers nice.?

The reapers are programmed to harvest all advanced organic and synthetic life. Since there isn't anymore advanced organic OR synthetic life the reapers have nothing to harvest. We have become like they are. Come on baby. Don't fear the reaper. We'll be able to fly. Don't fear the reaper.

[Cheviot]

darkway1 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

what is the threat in the MEU, what is the most potent form of removing that threat?

Think carefully, as intended these are definitively trick questions. (posed by the game it's self)

...........well how about you just answer the question???....Synthesis kinda works if everyone is happy and placid,one with tech,able to expand one's mind with unlimited resources etc.........but people aren't like that,life isn't like that.........why did Synthesis turn the Reapers nice.?

Synthesis gets rid of one major conflict - Synthetics vs Organics - that might destroy all organic life.  Since that conflict is resolved, the Reapers have no reason to continue attacking.  Synthesis also improves the capabilities of all life (if only because both organic and synthetic can work together without suspicion).  However, neither of these things mean the end of all conflict, it just means that conflict can never escalate to the level of organic vs synthetic.  So people can still hate other people.  Reapers might get into conflict with other Reapers, like the Geth and the Heretics did.

[darkway1]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

what is the threat in the MEU, what is the most potent form of removing that threat?

Think carefully, as intended these are definitively trick questions. (posed by the game it's self)

...........well how about you just answer the question???....Synthesis kinda works if everyone is happy and placid,one with tech,able to expand one's mind with unlimited resources etc.........but people aren't like that,life isn't like that.........why did Synthesis turn the Reapers nice.?

The reapers are programmed to harvest all advanced organic and synthetic life. Since there isn't anymore advanced organic OR synthetic life the reapers have nothing to harvest. We have become like they are. Come on baby. Don't fear the reaper. We'll be able to fly. Don't fear the reaper.

........so the reapers just suddenly stop and twiddle their thumbs???.......even Harbinger??.....by the time the game reaches it's ending,pretty much everyone on every planet knows some one murdered by the Reapers.......Synthesis isn't going to make people nice............synthesis isn't going to change how people feel.

[darkway1]

opps

Modifié par darkway1, 29 avril 2013 - 11:21 .

[darkway1]

Cheviot wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

what is the threat in the MEU, what is the most potent form of removing that threat?

Think carefully, as intended these are definitively trick questions. (posed by the game it's self)

...........well how about you just answer the question???....Synthesis kinda works if everyone is happy and placid,one with tech,able to expand one's mind with unlimited resources etc.........but people aren't like that,life isn't like that.........why did Synthesis turn the Reapers nice.?

Synthesis gets rid of one major conflict - Synthetics vs Organics - that might destroy all organic life.  Since that conflict is resolved, the Reapers have no reason to continue attacking.  Synthesis also improves the capabilities of all life (if only because both organic and synthetic can work together without suspicion).  However, neither of these things mean the end of all conflict, it just means that conflict can never escalate to the level of organic vs synthetic.  So people can still hate other people.  Reapers might get into conflict with other Reapers, like the Geth and the Heretics did.

Ah....now that makes more sense....would be ironic to see Shepard die only to have the whole war kick-off again due to an unforgiving galaxy.

[Archonsg]

Synthesis does not truly level the playing field, not even close.
Are synthetics now locked into one physical body that they can feel and learn to feel pain? Know the pangs of hunger, of thirst, the joys of bringing life into the world, the certainty of being mortal and from that mortality, learn respect for life?

How would synthesis achieve this with the Geth, whom are software?
Or in reverse, if organics become immortal, with the ability to copy and backup oneself ad-infinum? Would doing so remove our humanity?
What of the short and long term effects?
Short range instant communications? Sensory overload?
Digital rape, via memory / circuitry intrusion?
Health issues?
What exactly are the synthetic part of the equation did we get?

We are asked to make such a life changing decision that will effect the entire galaxy *blind* of the consequences based on faith on the word of an AI whom created and implemented the Reaper solution.

Synthesis isn't the "holy grail" that it is made out to be. 

Even in the ending scene choosing Synthesis, with the scene showing EDI's transformation, her mobile platform's circuitry looked organic, she is shown to still be lacking organs or means to truly experience what it means to be an organic.
Also, the writers seem to gloss over the fact that her mobile platform is not her true body, which would be the Normandy.
But of course, we would gravitate towards her humanoid and obviously sensual body.

Anyways, just musings.
Transhumanism is very appealing to me, as I do see the future of the human race to meld with technology in one form or another.
But Synthesis, as presented, no, I can't accept it at face value. There's just too much at stake to blindly accept it as purely benign.

Modifié par Archonsg, 30 avril 2013 - 12:38 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

darkway1 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

How does Synthesis actually solve anything????..........I don't like you,in fact I hate you......I want to destroy you.........how does synthesis change how I think or how I act????

what is the threat in the MEU, what is the most potent form of removing that threat?

Think carefully, as intended these are definitively trick questions. (posed by the game it's self)

...........well how about you just answer the question???....Synthesis kinda works if everyone is happy and placid,one with tech,able to expand one's mind with unlimited resources etc.........but people aren't like that,life isn't like that.........why did Synthesis turn the Reapers nice.?

The reapers are programmed to harvest all advanced organic and synthetic life. Since there isn't anymore advanced organic OR synthetic life the reapers have nothing to harvest. We have become like they are. Come on baby. Don't fear the reaper. We'll be able to fly. Don't fear the reaper.

........so the reapers just suddenly stop and twiddle their thumbs???.......even Harbinger??.....by the time the game reaches it's ending,pretty much everyone on every planet knows some one murdered by the Reapers.......Synthesis isn't going to make people nice............synthesis isn't going to change how people feel.

No, it will change how people feel. It can't help but change how people feel. Why? You are no longer the same person. You have been changed. You have been changed on a molecular level. Things happened to you. Things happened to everyone. Synthesis turned the entire galaxy into one giant reaper effectively. It is the most insane of the endings.

Did you notice how no one is really happy when the wave hits? It's more like they're in shock. And everyone is interconnected. The husks even become aware and sapient. Keiji's gray box does FFS, so the husks do, and they know what they've been doing, and who knows? Maybe they even remember who they were?

But... "I am alive and I am not alone." EDI is happy. Joker can finally get laid. And the Geth are alive and not alone. The reapers watch over us -- they're already "sythesized" -- and Starboy oversees the entire thing. It seems the only ones who really benefit are synthetics.

And we're all interconnected with the reapers, and Starboy. I guess the reapers set up shopping malls inside and ethnic crunchy circuit board cafes tended by the husks of their cycle and go on rotating tour of the galaxy.

Is it ever quiet anymore? Or is there this constant chatter like David Archer heard? "Make It Stop!!!" Does everyone know what you're thinking now? Do you share data packets like the Geth?

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

Do me a favor and put a bullet in my brain before this ever becomes a reality.

[Argolas]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No, it will change how people feel. It can't help but change how people feel. Why? You are no longer the same person. You have been changed. You have been changed on a molecular level. Things happened to you. Things happened to everyone. Synthesis turned the entire galaxy into one giant reaper effectively. It is the most insane of the endings.

Did you notice how no one is really happy when the wave hits? It's more like they're in shock. And everyone is interconnected. The husks even become aware and sapient. Keiji's gray box does FFS, so the husks do, and they know what they've been doing, and who knows? Maybe they even remember who they were?

But... "I am alive and I am not alone." EDI is happy. Joker can finally get laid. And the Geth are alive and not alone. The reapers watch over us -- they're already "sythesized" -- and Starboy oversees the entire thing. It seems the only ones who really benefit are synthetics.

And we're all interconnected with the reapers, and Starboy. I guess the reapers set up shopping malls inside and ethnic crunchy circuit board cafes tended by the husks of their cycle and go on rotating tour of the galaxy.

Is it ever quiet anymore? Or is there this constant chatter like David Archer heard? "Make It Stop!!!" Does everyone know what you're thinking now? Do you share data packets like the Geth?

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

Do me a favor and put a bullet in my brain before this ever becomes a reality.

[Wayning_Star]

Argolas wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No, it will change how people feel. It can't help but change how people feel. Why? You are no longer the same person. You have been changed. You have been changed on a molecular level. Things happened to you. Things happened to everyone. Synthesis turned the entire galaxy into one giant reaper effectively. It is the most insane of the endings.

Did you notice how no one is really happy when the wave hits? It's more like they're in shock. And everyone is interconnected. The husks even become aware and sapient. Keiji's gray box does FFS, so the husks do, and they know what they've been doing, and who knows? Maybe they even remember who they were?

But... "I am alive and I am not alone." EDI is happy. Joker can finally get laid. And the Geth are alive and not alone. The reapers watch over us -- they're already "sythesized" -- and Starboy oversees the entire thing. It seems the only ones who really benefit are synthetics.

And we're all interconnected with the reapers, and Starboy. I guess the reapers set up shopping malls inside and ethnic crunchy circuit board cafes tended by the husks of their cycle and go on rotating tour of the galaxy.

Is it ever quiet anymore? Or is there this constant chatter like David Archer heard? "Make It Stop!!!" Does everyone know what you're thinking now? Do you share data packets like the Geth?

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

Do me a favor and put a bullet in my brain before this ever becomes a reality.

but yet that poster craves computer immersion, as well as plays a fictional computer person in an alien universe ran by sentient AI's.. lol

someone is missing a spoke in their wheel, just to make 'their destroy' canon in a game that permits only one choice as such.. funny really.

Told you guys/gals it's a trick question..lol

[Wayning_Star]

Argolas wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No, it will change how people feel. It can't help but change how people feel. Why? You are no longer the same person. You have been changed. You have been changed on a molecular level. Things happened to you. Things happened to everyone. Synthesis turned the entire galaxy into one giant reaper effectively. It is the most insane of the endings.

Did you notice how no one is really happy when the wave hits? It's more like they're in shock. And everyone is interconnected. The husks even become aware and sapient. Keiji's gray box does FFS, so the husks do, and they know what they've been doing, and who knows? Maybe they even remember who they were?

But... "I am alive and I am not alone." EDI is happy. Joker can finally get laid. And the Geth are alive and not alone. The reapers watch over us -- they're already "sythesized" -- and Starboy oversees the entire thing. It seems the only ones who really benefit are synthetics.

And we're all interconnected with the reapers, and Starboy. I guess the reapers set up shopping malls inside and ethnic crunchy circuit board cafes tended by the husks of their cycle and go on rotating tour of the galaxy.

Is it ever quiet anymore? Or is there this constant chatter like David Archer heard? "Make It Stop!!!" Does everyone know what you're thinking now? Do you share data packets like the Geth?

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

Do me a favor and put a bullet in my brain before this ever becomes a reality.

edit: deleted as the post showed up twice, or didn't show the first time..etc.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 30 avril 2013 - 03:08 .

[Xilizhra]

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

It's just evolution, it's hardly "unnatural" any more than sapient life itself is. And certainly no one seems to be experiencing painful amounts of sensory input, so... that's that disproven right there.

[Wayning_Star]

Xilizhra wrote...

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

It's just evolution, it's hardly "unnatural" any more than sapient life itself is. And certainly no one seems to be experiencing painful amounts of sensory input, so... that's that disproven right there.

I'm taking that poster as tacitly admitting that synthesis is actually starting to make sense, in the purview of MEU space and inhabitants. The slides do not infer any abhorrent behavior, and they do stop fighting as well as the reaperships retreat.

The more folks looks at it all from the perspective of actually being OF the MEU, the idea will wear on them. All the 'talk' of ethics revolve around current hypotheticals not bearing on those of billions of years ahead of us, even if it's all alien technological advances. Human 'went for it' on mars, apparently.

All In all, it's just a VG, no real skin/blood loss to consider..lol

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Argolas wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No, it will change how people feel. It can't help but change how people feel. Why? You are no longer the same person. You have been changed. You have been changed on a molecular level. Things happened to you. Things happened to everyone. Synthesis turned the entire galaxy into one giant reaper effectively. It is the most insane of the endings.

Did you notice how no one is really happy when the wave hits? It's more like they're in shock. And everyone is interconnected. The husks even become aware and sapient. Keiji's gray box does FFS, so the husks do, and they know what they've been doing, and who knows? Maybe they even remember who they were?

But... "I am alive and I am not alone." EDI is happy. Joker can finally get laid. And the Geth are alive and not alone. The reapers watch over us -- they're already "sythesized" -- and Starboy oversees the entire thing. It seems the only ones who really benefit are synthetics.

And we're all interconnected with the reapers, and Starboy. I guess the reapers set up shopping malls inside and ethnic crunchy circuit board cafes tended by the husks of their cycle and go on rotating tour of the galaxy.

Is it ever quiet anymore? Or is there this constant chatter like David Archer heard? "Make It Stop!!!" Does everyone know what you're thinking now? Do you share data packets like the Geth?

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

Do me a favor and put a bullet in my brain before this ever becomes a reality.

but yet that poster craves computer immersion, as well as plays a fictional computer person in an alien universe ran by sentient AI's.. lol

someone is missing a spoke in their wheel, just to make 'their destroy' canon in a game that permits only one choice as such.. funny really.

Told you guys/gals it's a trick question..lol

It's not a trick question. You would have resolved the conflict by destroying both organic and synthetic life. All of it. Shepard asks "Then there will be peace?" The Catalyst responds "The cycle will end." There is nothing ever mentioned about peace.

What has happened here is that you would have completely written off the rest of nature for your own selfish wants. That's exactly what synthesis does. Everything. Every animal, every plant, every living organism is changed. They are no longer what they were. By choosing synthesis, you would have destroyed nature as we know it. You would have ventured where you have no business venturing. You would have played God, not just in a laboratory, not just in a single crop, not just on a single world, but across an entire galaxy.

Even if you say you did it to spare the Geth, you have no right to make that choice for all of nature.

So let me ask you this question: What makes you think you have that right?

[Xilizhra]

It's not a trick question. You would have resolved the conflict by destroying both organic and synthetic life. All of it. Shepard asks "Then there will be peace?" The Catalyst responds "The cycle will end." There is nothing ever mentioned about peace.

So you're saying, if the Catalyst had said there would be peace, you'd have believed it?

So let me ask you this question: What makes you think you have that right?

Well, that's why I pick Control. However, I believe I have more a right to do both than to commit actual genocide.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not a trick question. You would have resolved the conflict by destroying both organic and synthetic life. All of it. Shepard asks "Then there will be peace?" The Catalyst responds "The cycle will end." There is nothing ever mentioned about peace.

So you're saying, if the Catalyst had said there would be peace, you'd have believed it?

So let me ask you this question: What makes you think you have that right?

Well, that's why I pick Control. However, I believe I have more a right to do both than to commit actual genocide.

It's a Super Mac Walters information dump in the final 10 minutes of the game. You basically have two choices:

1) You accept what the Catalyst is telling you is true.

2) "I fight for freedom, mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I'll die knowing I did everything I could to stop you. And I'll die free."

This does not mean it isn't attempting to manipulate you into making a choice favorable to it. Yes, I would have believed it, but it doesn't mean I would have made that choice.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 30 avril 2013 - 05:06 .

[Iakus]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Synthesis is a bloody nightmare. It's Huxley's Brave New World with no escape. And EDI makes it sound so wonderful. And the Synthesis backers here make those of us who choose nature sound like knuckledraggers and monsters.

Do me a favor and put a bullet in my brain before this ever becomes a reality.

And the funniest part is:

Bioware has done this ending before

[Aravius]

Was it just me, or did others of you feel pressured by the game to choose synthesis? EDI says something to the effect that "we are now all able to live the lives we want." If I woke up one day and was part synthetic, I'd be pretty upset. Replay the ending. After the explanation of destroy, Shepard immediately dismisses it. I feel like the green ending is all but inevitable.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Aravius wrote...

Was it just me, or did others of you feel pressured by the game to choose synthesis? EDI says something to the effect that "we are now all able to live the lives we want." If I woke up one day and was part synthetic, I'd be pretty upset. Replay the ending. After the explanation of destroy, Shepard immediately dismisses it. I feel like the green ending is all but inevitable.

Yeah, I kind of wish Shepard could say, "Okay, that's all I needed to know."

"But don't you want to hear about the other wonderous choices?"

"No. I'm here to destroy the reapers, and that's what I'm going to do."

_________________________

Regarding Jade Empire -- yes, I remember that. It's one of those... The joke is on you, fool. That's what I think of both Synthesis and Control.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Aravius wrote...

Was it just me, or did others of you feel pressured by the game to choose synthesis? EDI says something to the effect that "we are now all able to live the lives we want." If I woke up one day and was part synthetic, I'd be pretty upset. Replay the ending. After the explanation of destroy, Shepard immediately dismisses it. I feel like the green ending is all but inevitable.

I felt that too. I think, in retrospect, the game really did gear a lot towards setting that up. That's where I think the whole EDI thing comes from. Same with the Geth. They pretty much changed the Geth from ME2. But yes, I do feel as if the game does pressure you to accept Synthesis. BioWare denies it now, but I'm pretty certain it was intended to be the best option. 

I personally believe that Casey had the idea for Synthesis in mind as a buildup for ME4. I honestly think he was hoping that it would be the accepted outcome among the majority so that they could pull a synthesis canon for ME4. 

If that was the case, it completely fell flat.

Among a huge list, one other problem I have with Synthesis is that, along with the theme and concept of the overall ending, it really doesn't fit the narrative. A whole universe for synthesis was never really given any real support in the trilogy. There's no underlying feel of there being a problem that synthesis solves. It's simply told to you at the very end. The problem itself is first created in the end.

[Aravius]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Aravius wrote...

Was it just me, or did others of you feel pressured by the game to choose synthesis? EDI says something to the effect that "we are now all able to live the lives we want." If I woke up one day and was part synthetic, I'd be pretty upset. Replay the ending. After the explanation of destroy, Shepard immediately dismisses it. I feel like the green ending is all but inevitable.

Yeah, I kind of wish Shepard could say, "Okay, that's all I needed to know."

"But don't you want to hear about the other wonderous choices?"

"No. I'm here to destroy the reapers, and that's what I'm going to do."

_________________________

Regarding Jade Empire -- yes, I remember that. It's one of those... The joke is on you, fool. That's what I think of both Synthesis and Control.

My Shepard was there to destroy Reapers, but then gets swayed by the starboy into possibly picking something else.