238 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Given that... actually, I think everyone who hates Synthesis has zeroed in, laserlike, on the uplifting of organics (whatever that may mean, as it's never explained), I wonder now: what if that wasn't in? What if Synthesis was just giving synthetics understanding of organics, including the Reapers, ending the war and bringing peace, but without your worries about genetic modification and the like?

It would, in that case, be a no-brainer for me.

[Heavensrun]

 I agree that would be better, but then there's not that much of a difference between synthesis and control.  I mean, the reapers, it is eventually revealed, are mostly just going around carrying out the catalyst's instructions, so "control", where you replace the catalyst and change the reaper's primary objective, could be likened to what you're describing:  Imuing the reapers with an increased understanding and empathy for organic life, via shepard-catalyst.  The Geth are already operating (in my world) in conjunction with the quarians, and EDI is becoming more human-like through the whole game.  So while each ending would still be distinct, it would still be very similar.  And the changes that -are- there I still can't sanction morally.  You're deciding for the geth what the geth are going to be when you don't even really know what that is.  You're deciding for Edi what Edi is going to be when you don't even really know what that is.

My Paragon shep would still have to take control, my renegade would still take destroy.  I haven't played through a third time to decide what my paragade would do.

[Xilizhra]

Heavensrun wrote...

 I agree that would be better, but then there's not that much of a difference between synthesis and control.  I mean, the reapers, it is eventually revealed, are mostly just going around carrying out the catalyst's instructions, so "control", where you replace the catalyst and change the reaper's primary objective, could be likened to what you're describing:  Imuing the reapers with an increased understanding and empathy for organic life, via shepard-catalyst.  The Geth are already operating (in my world) in conjunction with the quarians, and EDI is becoming more human-like through the whole game.  So while each ending would still be distinct, it would still be very similar.  And the changes that -are- there I still can't sanction morally.  You're deciding for the geth what the geth are going to be when you don't even really know what that is.  You're deciding for Edi what Edi is going to be when you don't even really know what that is.

My Paragon shep would still have to take control, my renegade would still take destroy.  I haven't played through a third time to decide what my paragade would do.

I think my issue with Control is that I don't really want to enslave the Reapers again. It's better than Destroy, to be sure, but it's still a bit discomfiting, even if it's the option that fits the best.

[Ecrulis]

Possibly for some, though I agree it would probably be argued that it is rather close to control, however for those like me it wouldn't change a thing, my issue with control and synthesis (at least in my shepards eyes) is that it leaves the reapers alive and that is just too much of a risk, plus (again in her eyes) a betrayal of all the lives that have been snuffed out by the reapers, all the lives that have been perverted into something horrific, for my shepard what the catalyst perceives as "life" is nothing but a twisted perversion of it.

So my personal answer would be no, it wouldn't change a damn thing.

[Xilizhra]

Ecrulis wrote...

Possibly for some, though I agree it would probably be argued that it is rather close to control, however for those like me it wouldn't change a thing, my issue with control and synthesis (at least in my shepards eyes) is that it leaves the reapers alive and that is just too much of a risk, plus (again in her eyes) a betrayal of all the lives that have been snuffed out by the reapers, all the lives that have been perverted into something horrific, for my shepard what the catalyst perceives as "life" is nothing but a twisted perversion of it.

So my personal answer would be no, it wouldn't change a damn thing.

Rather ironic, given that it's the Reapers themselves who've been the primary victims of life being snuffed out, and the only ones you could possibly make restitution to for the Catalyst's past actions.

[Yestare7]

 
I thought about it for a moment. But... The Reapers AND the catalyst gotta go. 
They have to be gone from the Universe, not somewhere lingering about. 

The Reapers are pumped full of organic materials, a living abomination.
To Destroy the Reapers would be to
give peace and justice  to the species they molested. 

Catalyst: "they are preserved in a new form"

Shep: "we would rather keep our own form"

Cata: "that is not possible" 

Shep: "Now you die."

Modifié par Yestare7, 25 avril 2013 - 02:39 .

[Xilizhra]

The Reapers are pumped full of organic materials, a living abomination. To Destroy the Reapers would be to
give peace and justice to the species they molested.

Shouldn't you, I don't know, ask the minds within them first?

[dreamgazer]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

In this scenario, I could still have an awakened Banshee as a LI, right?

Probably even more of a possibility since there wouldn't be any modification, at all, to what they were pre-beam.

It's beautiful. 

[Yestare7]

 


There are no minds. Goo, paste, liquid. 
preserved my ass, it's what the deluded AI thinks!!






Y

Modifié par Yestare7, 25 avril 2013 - 02:42 .

[Xilizhra]

Yestare7 wrote...

 


There are no minds. Goo, paste, liquid. preserved my ass, it's what the deluded AI thinks!!






Y

Legion confirms, twice, that sapient minds exist within the Reapers.

[Enhanced]

I don't know, maybe. Geth/Quarian conflicts made it seem like it's organics who usually lack the understanding of synthetics, because the Geth were usually acting in self defense. Without being partially synthetic, it's challenging for some to organics to empathize with synthetic life.

Modifié par Enhanced, 25 avril 2013 - 02:43 .

[Ecrulis]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

Possibly for some, though I agree it would probably be argued that it is rather close to control, however for those like me it wouldn't change a thing, my issue with control and synthesis (at least in my shepards eyes) is that it leaves the reapers alive and that is just too much of a risk, plus (again in her eyes) a betrayal of all the lives that have been snuffed out by the reapers, all the lives that have been perverted into something horrific, for my shepard what the catalyst perceives as "life" is nothing but a twisted perversion of it.

So my personal answer would be no, it wouldn't change a damn thing.

Rather ironic, given that it's the Reapers themselves who've been the primary victims of life being snuffed out, and the only ones you could possibly make restitution to for the Catalyst's past actions.

posted it many times over as have other but oh well here we go

https://encrypted-tb...duZWAg2YwSEXkDw

This is not life, this is someone being liquified to death and the catalysts assertion that the above is still life just cements the idea into my shepards head that the catalyst has no clue what life really means or how it works or how to preserve it, being liquified into reaper-powering paste is no way to live and killing the reapers is the only way to finally put the trillions of lives stolen at peace.

[Xilizhra]

Enhanced wrote...

I don't know, maybe. Geth/Quarian conflicts made it seem like it's organics who usually lack the understanding of synthetics, because they Geth were usually acting in self defense. Without being partially synthetic, it's challenging for some to organics to empathize with synthetic life.

You raise a valid point, but how would that be achieved in a sufficiently minor way to not significantly impinge upon freedom of choice? What understanding of synthetics, as such, would be given?

This is not life, this is someone being liquified to death and the
catalysts assertion that the above is still life just cements the idea
into my shepards head that the catalyst has no clue what life really
means or how it works or how to preserve it, being liquified into
reaper-powering paste is no way to live and killing the reapers is the
only way to finally put the trillions of lives stolen at peace.

Again, Legion confirms that sapient minds exist within a Reaper. Maybe it's not the preservation of life in the way you'd know it, but resources have been used to create new life, if nothing else.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 avril 2013 - 02:45 .

[Yestare7]

Xilizhra wrote...
Legion confirms, twice, that sapient minds exist within the Reapers.

is it possible you link to Youtube for that? As I have not heard it.

And if it's true, I feel horrid for those creatures....  suffering thru death  destruction and extinction almost without end....  Cannot imagine anything worse that that. Death truly is Mercy here. 




Y

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

 

There are no minds. Goo, paste, liquid. preserved my ass, it's what the deluded AI thinks!![smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]


Y

Legion confirms, twice, that sapient minds exist within the Reapers.

Yet Harbinger and Sovereign refer to themselves as "I" or "Me"

[Xilizhra]

Yestare7 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Legion confirms, twice, that sapient minds exist within the Reapers.

is it possible you link to Youtube for that? As I have not heard it.

And if it's true, I feel horrid for those creatures....  suffering thru death  destruction and extinction almost without end....  Cannot imagine anything worse that that. Death truly is Mercy here. 




Y

You believe yourself such a wise and impartial judge that you can kill them all and be sure that it's only mercy? And people call me hubristic.

Yet Harbinger and Sovereign refer to themselves as "I" or "Me"

Sometimes. Other times as "we." "We are Harbinger."

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 avril 2013 - 02:48 .

[Ecrulis]

Whether or not sapient "minds" exist in them is irrelevant what is done to them to create a reaper is horrific, to call being liquefied into paste to power a reaper life is beyond an abomination, it's made even more horrific to suggest the minds are still functional and aware of what they are doing. Allowing them to finally rest in peace is a mercy and killing the reapers is the only way my shepard will ever win this war.

Modifié par Ecrulis, 25 avril 2013 - 02:50 .

[Xilizhra]

Ecrulis wrote...

Whether or not sapient "minds" exist in them is irrelevant what is done to them to create a reaper is horrific and the perversion of life, to call being liquefied into paste to power a reaper life is beyond an abomination, it's made even more horrific to suggest the minds are still functional and aware of what they are doing. Allowing them to finally rest in peace is a mercy and killing the reapers is the only way my shepard will ever win this war.

I will never kill without necessity, unless someone actually begs me to, which the Reapers have not done. I refuse to do it here.

[Ecrulis]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

Whether or not sapient "minds" exist in them is irrelevant what is done to them to create a reaper is horrific and the perversion of life, to call being liquefied into paste to power a reaper life is beyond an abomination, it's made even more horrific to suggest the minds are still functional and aware of what they are doing. Allowing them to finally rest in peace is a mercy and killing the reapers is the only way my shepard will ever win this war.

I will never kill without necessity, unless someone actually begs me to, which the Reapers have not done. I refuse to do it here.

good for you and your shepard, I happen to play my shepard differently and interpret the very subjective nature of the reapers my own way, in the Mass Effect I play the reapers are genocidal abomination made even worse by the possibility that the minds within them are aware of what has been done, so killing them is the only option.

[AresKeith]

The fact they do refer to themselves individually means the organics they harvested form into one

And if someone did turn me into a Husk or Reaper I would ask for death, because there are fates worst that death

[Yestare7]

Xilizhra wrote...

You believe yourself such a wise and impartial judge that you can kill them all and be sure that it's only mercy? And people call me hubristic.

We're taliking about a video game, right?
SURE I can make that call. I'm mr. impartial myself.:whistle:


Hubristic?  remember, many people on this forum (including myself) DO NOT have english as first language.
Please use words, not college books.



Y 

[Yestare7]

Ecrulis wrote...the reapers are genocidal abomination made even worse by the possibility that the minds within them are aware of what has been done, so killing them is the only option.

I want to come over for coffee!





Y

[Ecrulis]

I believe we are playing a videogame where we never ACTUALLY get to speak with said minds, nor is it EVER confirmed that said minds exist as you claim they do (regardless of your still to be backed up claims). And even if they do, it is quite easy to, in terms of narrative, see them as victims of eternal suffering as long as they continue to exist as reaper paste, so yes in my specific shepards story IF those minds exist they want to be put to rest.

Now kindly please stop insinuating that your headcannon is the only way to interpret this game.