238 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

good for you and your shepard, I happen to play my shepard differently and interpret the very subjective nature of the reapers my own way, in the Mass Effect I play the reapers are genocidal abomination made even worse by the possibility that the minds within them are aware of what has been done, so killing them is the only option.

Wait, now you're saying their nature is subjective?

It may be true, but the point is that we don't really know what their opinions are, especially not when they've been freed.

Hubristic? remember, many people on this forum (including myself) DO NOT have english as first language.
Please use words, not college books.

Overly prideful.

[dreamgazer]

Yestare7 wrote...

Hubristic?  remember, many people on this forum (including myself) DO NOT have english as first language.
Please use words, not college books.

Basically, it means that they think they're more capable of doing something than they're able to do, and it's mostly because of arrogance.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 25 avril 2013 - 02:59 .

[Argolas]

Isn't rather organic prejudice against synthetics the problem? The Geth and Edi seemed to understand organics perfectly fine, at least enough to not kill them. Organics like Xen or Javik on the other hand...

[Wayning_Star]

heck OP, that's the easy part, figuring out what is meant by 'up lifting'.

Simply hand write all your posts and snail mail them to the BSN, that doesn't exist because the 'tech' isn't part of your existence.. or walk to work, instead of the subway, or carbon fiber bicycle.

Why does organic life forms create synthetic 'tools', why use them so much they become part of you, to eventually reach a point when your "YOU" becomes them, as they've reached self awareness as beings that you cannot "live" without?

The synthesis catch is only as complicated as you made them..lol (the cat is the first example of an apex synthetic race who seems to of (actually) out performed it's organic brothern/sisterhood.)


the really weird part of all that is that organics never in any way 'created' their synthetic rivals, Nature did, through evolution and its predilection.

[Xilizhra]

Argolas wrote...

Isn't rather organic prejudice against synthetics the problem? The Geth and Edi seemed to understand organics perfectly fine, at least enough to not kill them. Organics like Xen or Javik on the other hand...

And you yourself, as I recall. Of course, you're largely right about that anyway, but this is what's led to so many people to be upset over alleged violations of freedom of choice.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Hubristic? remember, many people on this forum (including myself) DO NOT have english as first language.
Please use words, not college books.

Overly prideful.

That's a very arrogant and ignorant statement

[Phatose]

Xilizhra wrote...

Given that... actually, I think everyone who hates Synthesis has zeroed in, laserlike, on the uplifting of organics (whatever that may mean, as it's never explained), I wonder now: what if that wasn't in? What if Synthesis was just giving synthetics understanding of organics, including the Reapers, ending the war and bringing peace, but without your worries about genetic modification and the like?

It would, in that case, be a no-brainer for me.

Then you're left wondering why, exactly, is it acceptable to alter all synthetics on a fundamental level, but unacceptable to do the same to organics.

Any understanding the synthetics gain under this would include the reality that organics have a double standard, and that synthetics are not worthy of the same protections organics are.

I do not see a way this can possibly end well.

[dreamgazer]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Simply hand write all your posts and snail mail them to the BSN, that doesn't exist because the 'tech' isn't part of your existence.. or walk to work, instead of the subway, or carbon fiber bicycle.

Why does organic life forms create synthetic 'tools', why use them so much they become part of you, to eventually reach a point when your "YOU" becomes them, as they've reached self awareness as beings that you cannot "live" without?

Therein lies the difference between gradual development and acclimation, and forced augmentation.

[Enhanced]

Xilizhra wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

I don't know, maybe. Geth/Quarian conflicts made it seem like it's organics who usually lack the understanding of synthetics, because they Geth were usually acting in self defense. Without being partially synthetic, it's challenging for some to organics to empathize with synthetic life.

You raise a valid point, but how would that be achieved in a sufficiently minor way to not significantly impinge upon freedom of choice? What understanding of synthetics, as such, would be given?

It probably isn't possible.

[Wayning_Star]

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Isn't rather organic prejudice against synthetics the problem? The Geth and Edi seemed to understand organics perfectly fine, at least enough to not kill them. Organics like Xen or Javik on the other hand...

And you yourself, as I recall. Of course, you're largely right about that anyway, but this is what's led to so many people to be upset over alleged violations of freedom of choice.

freedom of choice is omitted in the laws of natural selection. Shepard has to concentrate billions of years of evolution in a few moments in time, to upend the damages apparently caused by the leviathan industrial toxic spill. That's all that really IS the catalyst and it's reapers. By product of Levi advanced evolution. Their ability to actually 'create' synthetic life, well, at least through their technology, it's probable, instead of possible. All synthetic life is wrought from reaper technology, or Leviathan technology.. purloined by following organics.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 avril 2013 - 03:10 .

[Xilizhra]

Phatose wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Given that... actually, I think everyone who hates Synthesis has zeroed in, laserlike, on the uplifting of organics (whatever that may mean, as it's never explained), I wonder now: what if that wasn't in? What if Synthesis was just giving synthetics understanding of organics, including the Reapers, ending the war and bringing peace, but without your worries about genetic modification and the like?

It would, in that case, be a no-brainer for me.

Then you're left wondering why, exactly, is it acceptable to alter all synthetics on a fundamental level, but unacceptable to do the same to organics.

Any understanding the synthetics gain under this would include the reality that organics have a double standard, and that synthetics are not worthy of the same protections organics are.

I do not see a way this can possibly end well.

Given how hard people have whined about Synthesis here, said understanding would only be the truth. An unpleasant one, maybe, but one they may find useful.

Control could still be safer, though, you're right.

Therein lies the difference between gradual development and acclimation, and forced augmentation.

I never saw Synthesis as forced augmentation, rather as making chosen augmentation easier to achieve.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 avril 2013 - 03:10 .

[Wayning_Star]

Leviathan wished to 'control' the MEU, and nature it's self, as the MEU is just empty space without intellect to notice it.

[Wayning_Star]

Nah, Shep cannot be arrogant..why that's so.. human. BAD Shepard... bad..

[Argolas]

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Isn't rather organic prejudice against synthetics the problem? The Geth and Edi seemed to understand organics perfectly fine, at least enough to not kill them. Organics like Xen or Javik on the other hand...

And you yourself, as I recall. Of course, you're largely right about that anyway, but this is what's led to so many people to be upset over alleged violations of freedom of choice.

I admit that I may have spoken a little drastically for my ending choice, but I never supported annihilation of synthetic life, much less enslaving it. I spoke about it as a neccessary sacrifice, and I would even have prefered an organic race instead for the sake of having both kinds of life present even after the reaper threat. The condition that synthetics have to die is not mine.

[Xilizhra]

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Isn't rather organic prejudice against synthetics the problem? The Geth and Edi seemed to understand organics perfectly fine, at least enough to not kill them. Organics like Xen or Javik on the other hand...

And you yourself, as I recall. Of course, you're largely right about that anyway, but this is what's led to so many people to be upset over alleged violations of freedom of choice.

I admit that I may have spoken a little drastically for my ending choice, but I never supported annihilation of synthetic life, much less enslaving it. I spoke about it as a neccessary sacrifice, and I would even have prefered an organic race instead for the sake of having both kinds of life present even after the reaper threat. The condition that synthetics have to die is not mine.

Not that, necessarily; you killed off the geth above Rannoch. Of course, Destroy is terrible too.

[Wayning_Star]

the only really wrong thing with destroy, as honest as it is, that it won't work to end the reaper threat.

for obvious reasons... the trusted catalyst even warns of it.

[Wayning_Star]

the star gazer scene NEVER ever permits the informative view of HOW that any of the choices actually succeeded in altering the MEU, or ending the reapers and their innovator catalyst. I'm guessing it's meant to show that time,eventually, will heal all wounds. The choices merely represent the Shepards implication in that/those chosen time periods.

the next ME story will start from there, I'd suppose?

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 avril 2013 - 03:27 .

[o Ventus]

It wouldn't be called "Synthesis" then.

[Wayning_Star]

o Ventus wrote...

It wouldn't be called "Synthesis" then.

I'm unsure as to who this question could be directed at, as "Synthesis" is the least understood term on the BSN, probably the entire MEU..

edit: to digress a bit, if the concept of it alters the MEU/space time, to the extent intended, or ground up rewrite of nature, then no one would even realize they've been 'synthesized', as it would be as natural as "natural" could be considered as.

You cannot miss something you've never had, or knowledge of? As I've posted before, synthesis would required time it's self to be reset, as nature is reset via the synthesis wave. Probably why those husks were confused as the military standing next to them.

It would be one of those cosmic WTF just happened moments, as they'd not even know why they were there. They'd have to relearn their 'genetic' instincts, as all that is ultimately changed out. Reality has shifted.

yikes!

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 25 avril 2013 - 03:36 .

[dreamgazer]

Xilizhra wrote...

I never saw Synthesis as forced augmentation, rather as making chosen augmentation easier to achieve.

So, you see it almost like a series of USB ports added onto a computer, which may or may not be used?

Where was the choice offered for the fundamental change, though?

[Argolas]

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Isn't rather organic prejudice against synthetics the problem? The Geth and Edi seemed to understand organics perfectly fine, at least enough to not kill them. Organics like Xen or Javik on the other hand...

And you yourself, as I recall. Of course, you're largely right about that anyway, but this is what's led to so many people to be upset over alleged violations of freedom of choice.

I admit that I may have spoken a little drastically for my ending choice, but I never supported annihilation of synthetic life, much less enslaving it. I spoke about it as a neccessary sacrifice, and I would even have prefered an organic race instead for the sake of having both kinds of life present even after the reaper threat. The condition that synthetics have to die is not mine.

Not that, necessarily; you killed off the geth above Rannoch. Of course, Destroy is terrible too.

Let's not get into that again. I tried explaining my reasons to you multiple times. The Geth's death is unfortunate and I regret not being able to stop both the reaper code and the Quarians. If the situation had looked the other way around, I would have acted accordingly. Assume the quarians are about to be annihilated, but Tali had a plan to somehow (I don't care how) include reaper upgrades into all Quarians to save them. I would try to convince her not to, and if I can't, I would kill her. If the game does not allow me to stop the Geth after that, the Quarians are dead.

My decision would remain the same. It was anti-Reaper, not anti-synthetic. Same is true for Destroy.

Listen or don't, I don't care anymore. Think of me as a synthetic-hater if you like. I don't care.

[Xilizhra]

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I never saw Synthesis as forced augmentation, rather as making chosen augmentation easier to achieve.

So, you see it almost like a series of USB ports added onto a computer, which may or may not be used?

Where was the choice offered for the fundamental change, though?

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[CDR David Shepard]

I think that I would still pick destroy.

The Reapers never acted as if they didn't understand us...but that we could never understand their motivations.


Though your suggestion would give new meaning to Joker's line when he says something like..."I wish we had a better plan...like teaching the Reapers how to love".

[o Ventus]

Xilizhra wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I never saw Synthesis as forced augmentation, rather as making chosen augmentation easier to achieve.

So, you see it almost like a series of USB ports added onto a computer, which may or may not be used?

Where was the choice offered for the fundamental change, though?

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

Until you look down and see the circuit board patterns in your hands.

Or when you look in the mirror and wonder why in the hell your eyes are glowing radioactive green.

Modifié par o Ventus, 25 avril 2013 - 03:38 .

[Xilizhra]

o Ventus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I never saw Synthesis as forced augmentation, rather as making chosen augmentation easier to achieve.

So, you see it almost like a series of USB ports added onto a computer, which may or may not be used?

Where was the choice offered for the fundamental change, though?

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

Until you look down and see the circuit board patterns in your hands.

I don't think that's literal, any more than the tiny Shepard walking through a Reaper's eye in Control. I think it's supposed to be an artistic signifier that new potential has come, but not a literal glow.