238 réponses à ce sujet

[Dieb]

Xilizhra wrote...

[...] What if Synthesis was just giving synthetics understanding of organics [...] without your worries about genetic modification and the like?

I really don't understand the OP.

I don't mean to be condescending, but that sounds like "What if Destroy didn't destroy anything and just ended the war?"
It's called Synthesis because it makes, well, synthesis happen... right?

Modifié par Baelrahn, 25 avril 2013 - 03:44 .

[Wayning_Star]

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Isn't rather organic prejudice against synthetics the problem? The Geth and Edi seemed to understand organics perfectly fine, at least enough to not kill them. Organics like Xen or Javik on the other hand...

And you yourself, as I recall. Of course, you're largely right about that anyway, but this is what's led to so many people to be upset over alleged violations of freedom of choice.

I admit that I may have spoken a little drastically for my ending choice, but I never supported annihilation of synthetic life, much less enslaving it. I spoke about it as a neccessary sacrifice, and I would even have prefered an organic race instead for the sake of having both kinds of life present even after the reaper threat. The condition that synthetics have to die is not mine.

Not that, necessarily; you killed off the geth above Rannoch. Of course, Destroy is terrible too.

Let's not get into that again. I tried explaining my reasons to you multiple times. The Geth's death is unfortunate and I regret not being able to stop both the reaper code and the Quarians. If the situation had looked the other way around, I would have acted accordingly. Assume the quarians are about to be annihilated, but Tali had a plan to somehow (I don't care how) include reaper upgrades into all Quarians to save them. I would try to convince her not to, and if I can't, I would kill her. If the game does not allow me to stop the Geth after that, the Quarians are dead.

My decision would remain the same. It was anti-Reaper, not anti-synthetic. Same is true for Destroy.

Listen or don't, I don't care anymore. Think of me as a synthetic-hater if you like. I don't care.

that's the draw back inherent with destroy Arg, the catalyst is the head construct. We need it to upend the reaperships and it to alter time space, to bring everything 'back around'. Destroy is part, integral to chaos, a pet peeve of the catalyst synthetic being, that being provided by leviathan technology. No matter if all the reaps are toast, the tech still exists with the Leviathan, so the cycle most likely will continue with the thrall/synthetic snafu...

[dreamgazer]

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[citation needed]

How can you be sure that our method of communication and day-to-day activity hasn't changed after the fundamental augmentation?

[Xilizhra]

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[citation needed]

How can you be sure that our method of communication and day-to-day activity hasn't changed after the fundamental augmentation?

I've no doubt that it will, but it'll be voluntary. You could abstain from it if you didn't want to use any augmentations.

[Wayning_Star]

Didn't the Levi built intelligence complain of having to destroy all the sentient/sapient life forms that the Levi thralls created, those that threatened to destroy, or did those thralls?

That's where the industrial accident becomes real, when the intelligence becomes the catalyst for change. Harvesting it's technological creators. Hence the cycle of build and destroy. Altered to build and harvest to NOT destroy. (from the cat's perspective, not the harvestees, unless you wish to count reaperships as harvestees?)

[Dieb]

tickle267 wrote...

Baelrahn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

What if Synthesis was just giving synthetics understanding of organics [...] without your worries about genetic modification and the like?

I really don't understand the OP.

I don't mean to be condescending, but that sounds like "What if Destroy didn't destroy anything and just ended the war?"
It's called Synthesis because it makes, well, synthesis happen... right?

OP means what if the synthesis option gave synthetics the understanding they need to prevent the 'inevitable' organic synthetic war without the DNA mutation at the same time (which seems to be viewed as essentially rape)

I did understand his basic idea, but I'm quite sure it wouldn't be Synthesis without a synthesis happening:

Wikipedia wrote...

In general, the noun synthesis refers to a combination of two or more
entities that together form something new; alternately, it refers to the
creating of something by artificial means. The corresponding verb, to synthesize (or synthesise), means to make or form a synthesis.

Otherwise it would be... enlightenment?

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[citation needed]

How can you be sure that our method of communication and day-to-day activity hasn't changed after the fundamental augmentation?

I've no doubt that it will, but it'll be voluntary. You could abstain from it if you didn't want to use any augmentations.

People have a choice to not be green in Synthesis?

[Wayning_Star]

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

[Xilizhra]

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[citation needed]

How can you be sure that our method of communication and day-to-day activity hasn't changed after the fundamental augmentation?

I've no doubt that it will, but it'll be voluntary. You could abstain from it if you didn't want to use any augmentations.

People have a choice to not be green in Synthesis?

Liara's blue, James is orange... that's actually one major factor for me believing that this is just an artistic choice as everyone except the squadmates is green; they're arbitrarily other colors.

[Wayning_Star]

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[citation needed]

How can you be sure that our method of communication and day-to-day activity hasn't changed after the fundamental augmentation?

I've no doubt that it will, but it'll be voluntary. You could abstain from it if you didn't want to use any augmentations.

People have a choice to not be green in Synthesis?

to interject: some sheps figured that synthesis was totally choice driven, that you don't even have to attend, or be synthesized. Something about the Krogan not choosing it, or not accepting the change themselves, or not all of them?

I don't know where they got that idea tho. The thing is supposed to alter nature on the molecular level, that is change evolution to include totally, synthetic matter. That way, organics wouldn't have the monopoly on it? Creation...

[CDR David Shepard]

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violation of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

Modifié par CDR David Shepard, 25 avril 2013 - 03:54 .

[Wayning_Star]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violated of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

rape isn't a sun tan, as used for shock and awe...

[Xilizhra]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violation of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

It's not violation, it's an upgrade. Violation would have to do damage. There are well-established reasons for why rape does psychological damage, but nothing at all that'd give any feelings from alteration of DNA.

[CDR David Shepard]

Wayning_Star wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violated of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

rape isn't a sun tan, as used for shock and awe...

I'm not sure what you mean by that?

If you're trying to say that the word Rape doesn't fit for what Synthesis does...you're wrong.

[CDR David Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violation of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

It's not violation, it's an upgrade. Violation would have to do damage. There are well-established reasons for why rape does psychological damage, but nothing at all that'd give any feelings from alteration of DNA.

Whether it's a violation or an upgrade is purely subjective.

[o Ventus]

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think that's literal, any more than the tiny Shepard walking through a Reaper's eye in Control. I think it's supposed to be an artistic signifier that new potential has come, but not a literal glow.

Literally every single person you see after Synthesis has the green glows.

[Xilizhra]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violation of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

It's not violation, it's an upgrade. Violation would have to do damage. There are well-established reasons for why rape does psychological damage, but nothing at all that'd give any feelings from alteration of DNA.

Whether it's a violation or an upgrade is purely subjective.

Unlike rape.

Literally every single person you see after Synthesis has the green glows.

Wrong. The squadmates have different colors.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 25 avril 2013 - 03:58 .

[Wayning_Star]

o Ventus wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I don't think that's literal, any more than the tiny Shepard walking through a Reaper's eye in Control. I think it's supposed to be an artistic signifier that new potential has come, but not a literal glow.

Literally every single person you see after Synthesis has the green glows.

the catalyst is a glowing blue boy.. who seems to actually like Shepard, differentially.

(all stages have props..)

[CDR David Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violation of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

It's not violation, it's an upgrade. Violation would have to do damage. There are well-established reasons for why rape does psychological damage, but nothing at all that'd give any feelings from alteration of DNA.

Whether it's a violation or an upgrade is purely subjective.

Unlike rape.

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this...but the fact is...

...if you believe what Synthesis does is a violation to your DNA...than it can indeed be called Rape...by its very definition.

[o Ventus]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not violation, it's an upgrade. Violation would have to do damage. There are well-established reasons for why rape does psychological damage, but nothing at all that'd give any feelings from alteration of DNA.

"Violation" denotes an action committed to or for an individual without their consent. It normally includes damage, but mere violation itself has nothing to do with damage.

And "rape" (as a verb) does not mean "forced sex". Forcing sex is a form of rape, yes, but "rape" by itself does not mean forced sex.

[robertthebard]

Xilizhra wrote...

Given that... actually, I think everyone who hates Synthesis has zeroed in, laserlike, on the uplifting of organics (whatever that may mean, as it's never explained), I wonder now: what if that wasn't in? What if Synthesis was just giving synthetics understanding of organics, including the Reapers, ending the war and bringing peace, but without your worries about genetic modification and the like?

It would, in that case, be a no-brainer for me.

What happens to organics in the Synthesis ending is fully explained, by the Kid.  In fact, the very thing you're submitting to remove now is exactly what happens.  But let's look, for a minute, at what the Kid sees as life:

Reaper Variants.  Pick your poison, from the Collectors, which are essentially Prothean husks to Marauders, to Banshees to Brutes, etc etc etc.  So, what you're telling me is, despite what we see at the Asari Monastery, people are actually glad to be turned into these abominations?  Most of the time when we discuss Reapers, it's assumed we're discussing the ships, but all Reaper Variants are, by definition, Reapers as well.  We have witnessed how a husk is made first hand on Eden Prime in ME 1, and then again on Horizon in ME 3.  Is this a process that people are happy to undergo?  There is one platform with a husk that is being completed at Sanctuary that would disagree.  The people screaming in the tubes in ME 2, when being converted to goo for the Human Reaper would also disagree, as would Kelly's Drell like flashback to the experience.  So what is it you're trying to preserve?  It's essentially Organic Jelly.

If you remove the genetic modification, then you have done nothing to stop the Reapers if, as you postulate, they are aware, then they already understand organics.  If the geth and quarians are in the war, then the geth have already started on their way to understanding, and EDI has as well.  So you are saying that it's just a Refuse option where the galaxy isn't destroyed by the Reapers?  However, since if they are aware of what they were, and already understand organics, and the Kid is still in charge, then nothing changes, and it's just a way to off yourself before you refuse.  I refuse before I ever talk to the kid, so this wouldn't change my mind in the least bit.

[dreamgazer]

Xilizhra wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[citation needed]

How can you be sure that our method of communication and day-to-day activity hasn't changed after the fundamental augmentation?

I've no doubt that it will, but it'll be voluntary. You could abstain from it if you didn't want to use any augmentations.

I see.

And how does the mutual understanding between all organics and synthetics occur? Is that voluntary as well?

[Wayning_Star]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

rape is now considered instant evolution?

weird...

While I don't care to use that word to express my feelings about Synthesis...is does indeed fit.

Rape...as a word...is not strictly about forced sexual intercourse.

In this case...it's about the violated of the DNA of every single being in the galaxy.

rape isn't a sun tan, as used for shock and awe...

I'm not sure what you mean by that?

If you're trying to say that the word Rape doesn't fit for what Synthesis does...you're wrong.

are you attempting to indoctrinate me?

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that, if you don't do anything with it, it's not a change with any significant impact on you. You likely wouldn't even notice it independently.

[citation needed]

How can you be sure that our method of communication and day-to-day activity hasn't changed after the fundamental augmentation?

I've no doubt that it will, but it'll be voluntary. You could abstain from it if you didn't want to use any augmentations.

People have a choice to not be green in Synthesis?

Liara's blue, James is orange... that's actually one major factor for me believing that this is just an artistic choice as everyone except the squadmates is green; they're arbitrarily other colors.

Missed the idea entirely