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A world without magic


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#101
KainD

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MisterJB wrote...
Now imagine that there is a people of Earth being born with submachine guns from which they can't be separated 


That is not a good analogy. People can be made tranquil, and are made such all the time by the templars in many situations. 
I support making mages tranquil as a punishment for their crimes and inability to wield magic properly. 

See we don't know the full use of magic yet, what if with enough research in the future magic can grant society something very beneficial that at the same time technology can never offer or achieve? 

Modifié par KainD, 27 avril 2013 - 06:13 .


#102
BlueMagitek

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Considering we so rarely ever look for newly created spells, only going back to older grimoires, I'm skeptical of any future development.

Which is why I was pleased with the tranquility being overwritten; at last something new.

#103
EdwinLi

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KainD wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Now imagine that there is a people of Earth being born with submachine guns from which they can't be separated 


That is not a good analogy. People can be made tranquil, and are made such all the time by the templars in many situations. 
I support making mages tranquil as a punishment for their crimes and inability to wield magic properly. 

See we don't know the full use of magic yet, what if with enough research in the future magic can grant society something very beneficial that at the same time technology can never offer or achieve? 


Only issue now is that in DA3 a group of Templars may not be so kind as they use to be.

Most likely in DA3 a large group of them have become extremists bent on killing Mages and turning them tranquil for the smallest crimes or for being just Mages. There will be a small group of Templars who will be against these extremist ideals though and most likely if they bring back Cullen again he will be on the non-extremists Templar side.

Still we have seen in DA2 that being Tranquil is more like a type of mind control rather than sealing away emotions.

Modifié par EdwinLi, 27 avril 2013 - 07:35 .


#104
Hurbster

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I would like a world without magic if it meant not bumping into blood mages every 5 minutes like in DA2.

#105
omegamantis113

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I could see an anti-magic field(which is ironically magic) the size of the planet being a possibility. The problem with trying to destroy magic is that magic is energy and we energy cannot be destroyed only changed. A new form of "magic" will always be right around the corner.

Sentient beings will always find a way to manipulate energy. Be it magic or science and technology someone will find a way.

#106
EdwinLi

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omegamantis113 wrote...

I could see an anti-magic field(which is ironically magic) the size of the planet being a possibility. The problem with trying to destroy magic is that magic is energy and we energy cannot be destroyed only changed. A new form of "magic" will always be right around the corner.

Sentient beings will always find a way to manipulate energy. Be it magic or science and technology someone will find a way.


Ya that one thing about Magic. Magic will always find a way to be used. 

Just look at City of Dead Sorcerer web comic series when Magic is used through advance technology that allows everyone who is born with or without magic to use magic through cellphones, iphones, and other technological equipment by simply downloading it.

Modifié par EdwinLi, 27 avril 2013 - 07:56 .


#107
Senya

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Why not synthesis? Everyone will be a Mage-Darkspawn-Elf following the Qun?

In all seriousness, we can't get rid of magic. It's a big part of Thedas.

#108
Abraham_uk

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OdanUrr wrote...

Just for the sake of discussion, imagine you (aka, the Inquisitor) were offered the chance to rid the world of magic simply by blocking everyone's connection to the Fade. Imagine further that this could be done without the need for any sacrifice. Would you do it? Would you rid the world of magic? Why or why not?

PS: If this has been discussed before, let me know so I can ask a mod to close the thread.

Poll: Would you rid the world of magic?


My Little Pony could not exist in a world without magic.


But worst of all. In a world without magic, friendship cannot exist, since friendship is magic.:o

#109
Medhia Nox

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@Plaintiff: People who lose loved ones to cancer join anti-cancer movements all the time (when they couldn't care less earlier). Family members of homosexuals often join gay/straight alliances (when they were bigots only months earlier).

Mothers who lose their children to drunk drivers created MADD.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder for people who act against your mode of belief.

So... it's really not such a rare thing to develop.

====

The mages of Thedas are morons who are allowed to hone their talents to violent ends.

I've yet to see how losing magic on Thedas would be anything but completely beneficial.

It has stagnated the world into a fantasy trope. Removal of magic would only free Thedas from crippling ignorance.

#110
ImperatorMortis

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Nah I wouldn't. 

If everyone's connection to the fade was blocked when people died wouldn't they be condemned to Oblivion/The Void? Also wouldn't everyone be made tranquil if that happened? What kind of ****ed up ending is that? 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 27 avril 2013 - 09:21 .


#111
OdanUrr

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ImperatorMortis wrote...

If everyone's connection to the fade was blocked when people died wouldn't they be condemned to Oblivion/The Void? Also wouldn't everyone be made tranquil if that happened? What kind of ****ed up ending is that? 


What part of "imagine" and "no side effects" don't you understand?<_<

#112
ImperatorMortis

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OdanUrr wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

If everyone's connection to the fade was blocked when people died wouldn't they be condemned to Oblivion/The Void? Also wouldn't everyone be made tranquil if that happened? What kind of ****ed up ending is that? 


What part of "imagine" and "no side effects" don't you understand?<_<


Sorry just skimmed the OP. 

In this case still no. Because we already live in a magic less world, and this is fantasy damnit. 

#113
Sutamina

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Medhia Nox wrote...
The mages of Thedas are morons who are allowed to hone their talents to violent ends.
I've yet to see how losing magic on Thedas would be anything but completely beneficial.

would the answer be the same if our world lost electricity ?

It has stagnated the world into a fantasy trope. Removal of magic would only free Thedas from crippling ignorance.

No, only useful education would help bring freedom from crippling ignorance.

#114
Vit246

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Medhia Nox wrote...
The mages of Thedas are morons who are allowed to hone their talents to violent ends. 

I've yet to see how losing magic on Thedas would be anything but completely beneficial.

It has stagnated the world into a fantasy trope. Removal of magic would only free Thedas from crippling ignorance.


Nothing and nothing but generalizations, exaggerations, stereotypes, platitudes, paintbrushing with a broad stroke etc. etc. even dare I say falsehoods.

Its embarassing. Really. You make it sound impossibly worse than it actually is in the DA reality.

Modifié par Vit246, 28 avril 2013 - 04:41 .


#115
Thibax

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I love Magic.
Magic is part of Nature.
The real problem is humans.
Let's get rid all humans.
Free my spirit to Nature.

#116
WhiteKnyght

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OdanUrr wrote...

Just for the sake of discussion, imagine you (aka, the Inquisitor) were offered the chance to rid the world of magic simply by blocking everyone's connection to the Fade. Imagine further that this could be done without the need for any sacrifice. Would you do it? Would you rid the world of magic? Why or why not?

PS: If this has been discussed before, let me know so I can ask a mod to close the thread.

Poll: Would you rid the world of magic?


Don't need a poll to answer that.

My answer: Hell no!

Reason why: Magic is crucial during blights(Mages make excellent soldiers against Darkspawn,) and we still have two more to come.

Another reason why: Magic is the only thing that can compete with the Qunari's technological advancement. Get rid of magic and everyone is f*cked when a future Arishok becomes overzealous and tries to take over the continent.

Yet another reason why: Magic is extremely effective when used medicinally, and enchanted objects could arguably save Thedas from becoming polluted by an industrial revolution.

#117
WhiteKnyght

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Besides, that will never be a choice. Sandal says so.

"One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When He rises, everyone will see."

David Gaider even confirmed that Sandal's prophecy is a vague description of a future plot.

Not to mention there's Elini Zinovia's prophecy, about how she would remain in her statue until "The Maker returns to light 'their' fires." Which, IIRC, Mike Laidlaw said is also a reference to a future story.

Fun fact people seldom notice:

Elini Zinovia went silent(as if she left the statue) during Witch Hunt, which is Chronologically not long after Hawke found that damn idol and Bartrand took it out of the Primeval Thaig, which is the catalyst that lights the fires of war between the Mages and Templars.

Anybody else making the connections here?

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 28 avril 2013 - 04:21 .


#118
-TC1989-

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Thibax wrote...

I love Magic.
Magic is part of Nature.
The real problem is humans.
Let's get rid all humans.
Free my spirit to Nature.


So instead of ridding the world of magic, we choose genocide? Well that is quite the alternative, good sir.

#119
Silfren

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The Grey Nayr wrote...

Besides, that will never be a choice. Sandal says so.

"One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part and the skies will open wide. When He rises, everyone will see."

David Gaider even confirmed that Sandal's prophecy is a vague description of a future plot.

Not to mention there's Elini Zinovia's prophecy, about how she would remain in her statue until "The Maker returns to light 'their' fires." Which, IIRC, Mike Laidlaw said is also a reference to a future story.

Fun fact people seldom notice:

Elini Zinovia went silent(as if she left the statue) during Witch Hunt, which is Chronologically not long after Hawke found that damn idol and Bartrand took it out of the Primeval Thaig, which is the catalyst that lights the fires of war between the Mages and Templars.

Anybody else making the connections here?


Nice catches on both, but I think that in Elini's case, the statue would become flesh again.  She doesn't say that she is trapped IN the statue, but rather "stone they made me, and stone I am,"  which doesn't imply to me that she can escape it.  But I actually think this refers to a possible future story beyond the mage-templar war.  It could be the mage-templar war itself, but I think it may be something else, possibly related, or not.  I take "Maker returns" and "when he rises," to refer to the same thing, so I don't think it happened when the mage-templar conflict was touched off.

#120
Silfren

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EdwinLi wrote...

KainD wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Now imagine that there is a people of Earth being born with submachine guns from which they can't be separated 


That is not a good analogy. People can be made tranquil, and are made such all the time by the templars in many situations. 
I support making mages tranquil as a punishment for their crimes and inability to wield magic properly. 

See we don't know the full use of magic yet, what if with enough research in the future magic can grant society something very beneficial that at the same time technology can never offer or achieve? 


Only issue now is that in DA3 a group of Templars may not be so kind as they use to be.

Most likely in DA3 a large group of them have become extremists bent on killing Mages and turning them tranquil for the smallest crimes or for being just Mages. There will be a small group of Templars who will be against these extremist ideals though and most likely if they bring back Cullen again he will be on the non-extremists Templar side.

Still we have seen in DA2 that being Tranquil is more like a type of mind control rather than sealing away emotions.


We'll be seeing something quite different in DA:I now, because Tranquility has been shown to be faulty.  It can no longer be the go-to method for rendering a mage harmless.

#121
Plaintiff

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Medhia Nox wrote...

@Plaintiff: People who lose loved ones to cancer join anti-cancer movements all the time (when they couldn't care less earlier). Family members of homosexuals often join gay/straight alliances (when they were bigots only months earlier).

Um, so? Those are good movements trying to affect positive change.

Mothers who lose their children to drunk drivers created MADD.

"Mothers Against Drunk Drivers" is an acceptable response to your child being killed by a drunk driver. It targets the actual problem."Mothers Against Cars" would be moronic.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder for people who act against your mode of belief.

So... it's really not such a rare thing to develop.

I don't think you actually understood a single word I said. 

The mages of Thedas are morons who are allowed to hone their talents to violent ends.

Sweeping, bigoted generalization. 

I've yet to see how losing magic on Thedas would be anything but completely beneficial.

It has stagnated the world into a fantasy trope. Removal of magic would only free Thedas from crippling ignorance.

Bull****. Magic is irrelevent to the issue. The common people of Thedas, and indeed, most of the nobility, have no access to magic whatsoever, and on the rare occasion that the option is available, they won't use it because they despise and fear it. So it can't possibly be responsible for a lack of development.

Even if magic is taken away, what evidence is there that Thedas even possesses the capability to develop further? The Qunari shun magic and mages even more than the rest of Thedas, and they're just as stagnant as the rest of the continent. They had gunpowder 300 years ago when they first showed up, and have developed exactly squat since then.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 28 avril 2013 - 08:13 .


#122
Thibax

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-TC1989- wrote...

Thibax wrote...

I love Magic.
Magic is part of Nature.
The real problem is humans.
Let's get rid all humans.
Free my spirit to Nature.


So instead of ridding the world of magic, we choose genocide? Well that is quite the alternative, good sir.



We need to make some sacrifices.
Humans can't destroy Magic. Magic is higher than men.

#123
Medhia Nox

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@Sutamina: This world is damn fortunate I don't have a button to turn that off. I would do so without hesitation.

@Vit246: That's quite a laundry list. Dagna - the notably non-magical dwarf is the only being on Thedas I ever hear talk about magic intellectually. ((Oddly enough - it always seems that dwarves are far more intelligent than the other races of Thedas. Even Sandal seems to know more than the vast majority of Dragon Age characters.))

The rest are just hillbillies with hand grenades. Which stands to reason - any dimwit peasant can give birth to an equally dimwit mage on Thedas.

As for Flemeth - being obtuse doesn't make you wise no matter how much power you have.

@Plaintiff: So you're just saying that everyone on Thedas is an imbecile incapable of any real change since the world has pretty much been stuck in "medieval fantasy trope" for hundreds - if not thousands - of years?

Alright - I'm cool with that.

Still... I'd rather face a dozen idiots with pitchforks than one with a Curse of Mortality.

And "bigoted"? Seriously? Can you show me the Circle of Peaceful Magi who don't learn spells like Fireball and Curse of Mortality?

You can't - and you would be right to say that the people of Thedas are ALL imbeciles for letting the Circles even learn one combative spell. Combat spells should have been restricted for an elite type of magi under even stricter control by a militant body (which they would belong to).

And before you start whining about that... if you think anyone in any military ever can just come and go as they please - you know jack and squat about militant organizations.

#124
Swagger7

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No, but I would use threats of ending magic to squeeze some concessions out of the Tevinter Imperium, like ending slavery for instance.

#125
ImperatorMortis

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Swagger7 wrote...

No, but I would use threats of ending magic to squeeze some concessions out of the Tevinter Imperium, like ending slavery for instance.


How would you threaten the Tevinter Imperium with that? Are you going to be like "Hey Tevinters you better cut out that slavery crap or I'm gonna take away your magicks!"

Tevinter Magister: "Pssh! Yeah sure, whatever you say clown."