197 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

Medhia Nox wrote...
People of Thedas are ALL imbeciles for letting the Circles even learn one combative spell. Combat spells should have been restricted for an elite type of magi under even stricter control by a militant body (which they would belong to). 

I'm just reading points like this, and as long as characters with similar opinions exist in Dragon age universe, I feel like it is my duty to do everything that is within my power to encourage each and every mage to join Tevinter and and/or go through mandatory Blood magic training. 

Modifié par KainD, 28 avril 2013 - 11:14 .

[RobRam10]

If there was an option to destroy magic in Thedas.. I would smite that option into pieces what a boring world Thedas would be without magic. And besides I'm a big fan of the Tevinter Imperium so no to the option of destroying magic!

[Hazegurl]

That is difficult because on one hand I find magic useful and dare I say it, a beauty to it. On the other hand about 95% of mages are retards. Not to mention the demons and fade tears, and blood magic..but once again healing magic is very useful to have...but the use of magic is probably preventing the need to invent more useful tools. Yeah this is hard.

[Cainhurst Crow]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

And magic could probably have helped clear out the darkspawn there, maybe create a few powerful seals to keep most of them out, but who am I to try and use power benefically.

Additionally, just as the case of andraste maybe being a blood mage or not, we don't know if darkspawn were actually created by the tevinter imperium exploring the fade, or if that was additional propoganda against them.

Dwarves do not have mages, and if Tevinter has not managed to do so then it is likely not possible.  And yes, Tevinter would be the first to jump at devising such a thing, because if you didn't notice, the Blight ravaged their empire.

It does not matter if the Tevinters caused it or not; it is almost certainly from the Fade, which makes it magic, as much as demons and spirits are magic.  Morever, Darkspawn are capable of using the Taint to supply their magic, instead of connection to the Fade or Lyrium (which is implied to have some connection to the Fade).

And seriously, propoganda against Tevinter? No need, their actions speak loudly enough.

A good point on the first two things you brought up.

But about the last one, you seem to assume that just becasue something is bad, means that it can't have propoganda against it. That is simply untrue, and throughout history you see empires and kingdoms engage in propoganda against eachother to weaken moral and sway opinions, and with both sides being as evil and sometimes deserving of such exagerations.

The tevinter imperium is pretty bad, but it was also very powerful, and so it wouldn't surprise me if the chantry choose to make them the ultimate bad guys in their religion for the sake of weakening their position and standing in the world and allow the chantry to gain more strength.

[sunnydxmen]

If that was choice it would not be Canon cause mages are a very popular class to remove all magic is to remove that class from future installments in the game. some players won't probably even get the game ,how can you have a dark fantasy about dragons in the world game without magic it won't work cause dragons are magic in so are dark spawn they all vanish from the world.

[Dave of Canada]

KainD wrote...

I feel like it is my duty to do everything that is within my power to encourage each and every mage to join Tevinter and and/or go through mandatory Blood magic training. 

That's fine, just gives me more legitimate ammunition against the mages. Not like they need anymore, mind you.

[BlueMagitek]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
A good point on the first two things you brought up.

But about the last one, you seem to assume that just becasue something is bad, means that it can't have propoganda against it. That is simply untrue, and throughout history you see empires and kingdoms engage in propoganda against eachother to weaken moral and sway opinions, and with both sides being as evil and sometimes deserving of such exagerations.

The tevinter imperium is pretty bad, but it was also very powerful, and so it wouldn't surprise me if the chantry choose to make them the ultimate bad guys in their religion for the sake of weakening their position and standing in the world and allow the chantry to gain more strength.

Let me ask you, then, what the Tevinter have been accused of that they have not done?

They sank Arlathan, enslaved a race of people, established a slave based society, use swathes of slaves for blood, created an ocean of blood, tore open an entrance into the Fade, did something with the Darkspawn (even if they weren't the first, what they did led to the Old Gods being corrupted/corruptable). 

[KainD]

Dave of Canada wrote...

KainD wrote...

I feel like it is my duty to do everything that is within my power to encourage each and every mage to join Tevinter and and/or go through mandatory Blood magic training. 

That's fine, just gives me more legitimate ammunition against the mages. Not like they need anymore, mind you.

The principle of cycle of hate at work right here. 

[BlueMagitek]

^ Well, as blood magic was defined as being fueled by destruction and pain, you're advocating all mages become evil monsters, so it isn't so much the cycle of hate as much as it is you starting a reason to hate all mages.

[KainD]

BlueMagitek wrote...

^ Well, as blood magic was defined as being fueled by destruction and pain, you're advocating all mages become evil monsters, so it isn't so much the cycle of hate as much as it is you starting a reason to hate all mages.

I advocate blood magic first and formost as the best weapon vs anyone who would try to harm and/or imprison mages. 
And I am not starting anything here, the circles were not made for blood mages, this is a reaction. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
A good point on the first two things you brought up.

But about the last one, you seem to assume that just becasue something is bad, means that it can't have propoganda against it. That is simply untrue, and throughout history you see empires and kingdoms engage in propoganda against eachother to weaken moral and sway opinions, and with both sides being as evil and sometimes deserving of such exagerations.

The tevinter imperium is pretty bad, but it was also very powerful, and so it wouldn't surprise me if the chantry choose to make them the ultimate bad guys in their religion for the sake of weakening their position and standing in the world and allow the chantry to gain more strength.

Let me ask you, then, what the Tevinter have been accused of that they have not done?

They sank Arlathan, enslaved a race of people, established a slave based society, use swathes of slaves for blood, created an ocean of blood, tore open an entrance into the Fade, did something with the Darkspawn (even if they weren't the first, what they did led to the Old Gods being corrupted/corruptable). 

But how do you know that they explicitly created the darkspawn by pissing off the maker? That is what the chantry preaches, and that is something that we haven't seen any evidence for. Do we know that the event, which pretty much makes the tevinter imperium the anti-christ of the chantry religion, actually took place the way that the chantry claims?

The tevinter worshipped the old gods along with almost all of thedas, that's about all we know of the imperiums involvement that didn't have to do with worshiping the maker, the religion that andraste made up herself.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 29 avril 2013 - 01:06 .

[BlueMagitek]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
But how do you know that they explicitly created the darkspawn by pissing off the maker? That is what the chantry preaches, and that is something that we haven't seen any evidence for. Do we know that the event, which pretty much makes the tevinter imperium the anti-christ of the chantry religion, actually took place the way that the chantry claims?

The tevinter worshipped the old gods along with almost all of thedas, that's about all we know of the imperiums involvement that didn't have to do with worshiping the maker, the religion that andraste made up herself.

Because Tevinter is more or less the cause of every calamity to hit Thedas so far apart from the Qunari?  And before you bring up the Dwarvern account, remember that it, too, is falliable, given that Lost Thaigs are missing or removed from the Memories. 

Actually, the idea of the Maker predated Andraste.

[BlueMagitek]

KainD wrote...
I advocate blood magic first and formost as the best weapon vs anyone who would try to harm and/or imprison mages. 
And I am not starting anything here, the circles were not made for blood mages, this is a reaction.

The Circles were created as a compromise between the mages, the inquisition and the Chantry.

But you are more than happy to arm mages with something evil and prove the most extremist Templars right.  Good job.

[KainD]

BlueMagitek wrote...

The Circles were created as a compromise between the mages, the inquisition and the Chantry.

But you are more than happy to arm mages with something evil and prove the most extremist Templars right.  Good job.

Compromise only works between each and every individual that is willing to compromise, it doesn't work universally, so there can be no compromise as a whole. 

Blood magic is not evil.. but yeah I am more than happy to arm mages with the most evil things out there to iradicate the templars, the very existence of their current order is wrong. 

[Dave of Canada]

BlueMagitek wrote...

But you are more than happy to arm mages with something evil and prove the most extremist Templars right.  Good job.

It's only evil when Templar kill mages. If mages killed Templar, they'd be the pinnacle of good.

I can't write that with a straight face.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 29 avril 2013 - 01:51 .

[KainD]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It's only evil when Templar kill mages. If mages killed Templar, they'd be the pinnacle of good.

No, no. It's not evil to kill a mage if that mage is a criminal, he should be dealt with like other criminals, if it's a death sentence, well so be it. 
Knowing however about what templar order stands for, I believe that it is evil to be a templar. So when a mage kills a templar it's good, when a peasant kills a templar it's good, hell when a templar drowns in a river it's also good, because the whole templar order shouldn't exist in the first place and should just be irradicated.
But now here's the thing, the majority of Thedas actually supports the templar order, and when something as ridicilous like that happens, I start to believe that they just deserve to be slaves of Tevinter, just because they are so messed up in the first place as to support the Templars. And then I just feel like encouraging all the mages to become blood mages and to inslave Thedas, because that society has broken morals and is messed up anyway. 

[Sutamina]

Dave of Canada is that a response too KainD?

hmm willful blindness good clue not to argue with such a person.

I agree with your comment below Youth4ever

Modifié par Sutamina, 29 avril 2013 - 02:41 .

[lil yonce]

Dave of Canada wrote...

It's only evil when Templar kill mages. If mages killed Templar, they'd be the pinnacle of good.

I can't write that with a straight face.

And I just can't understand this prevailing sentiment.

[Plaintiff]

Medhia Nox wrote...
@Plaintiff: So you're just saying that everyone on Thedas is an imbecile incapable of any real change since the world has pretty much been stuck in "medieval fantasy trope" for hundreds - if not thousands - of years?

No.

I'm saying Thedas might be incapable of further development, at least by our definition. We don't actually know what the natural laws of their universe are, we don't know what they're capable of, with or without magic, and guessing is a waste of time.

There is no in-universe reason for why Thedas hasn't developed to the level of Earth. The only reason is that the writers don't want that sort of setting. If Thedas does experience any "non-magical" development, it will likely not be in a form we recognise.

Still... I'd rather face a dozen idiots with pitchforks than one with a Curse of Mortality.

And "bigoted"? Seriously? Can you show me the Circle of Peaceful Magi who don't learn spells like Fireball and Curse of Mortality?

An irrelevent and ridiculous strawman. There is nothing wrong with learning a combat spell, as long as you can use it responsibly, and learning such a spell does not make you any less a "peaceful mage" anymore than taking self-defense classes or buying a gun turns ordinary citizens into hardened killers.

You can't - and you would be right to say that the people of Thedas are ALL imbeciles for letting the Circles even learn one combative spell. Combat spells should have been restricted for an elite type of magi under even stricter control by a militant body (which they would belong to).

No they shouldn't. Mages have the right to learn how to defend themselves, using any and every tool at their disposal.

And before you start whining about that... if you think anyone in any military ever can just come and go as they please - you know jack and squat about militant organizations.

Mages are not a military organization and should not be held to the same standards of such.

[KainD]

Sutamina wrote...

Dave of Canada is that meant for KainD and not BlueMagitek?

Isn't this like a group discussion? 

[-TC1989-]

Thibax wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

Thibax wrote...

I love Magic.
Magic is part of Nature.
The real problem is humans.
Let's get rid all humans.
Free my spirit to Nature.

So instead of ridding the world of magic, we choose genocide? Well that is quite the alternative, good sir.

We need to make some sacrifices.
Humans can't destroy Magic. Magic is higher than men.

"Some sacrifices", you mean ending the human race? I don't know, that seems like a pretty weighted order. Besides what of all humans that possess magic? Are they swept under the rug too, or spared simply because they happened to be born with it?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Dave of Canada wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

But you are more than happy to arm mages with something evil and prove the most extremist Templars right.  Good job.

It's only evil when Templar kill mages. If mages killed Templar, they'd be the pinnacle of good.

I can't write that with a straight face.

When a templar decides to go around lobotomizing all the mages he can becasue he feels it's the right thing to do, that's wrong and killing that SOB does make someone the pinicle of good. When some crazy SOB mage decides to cut apart and stich togehter a bunch of woman to make his waifu come back, than the templar who kills him is being the pinicle of good. When both sides decide to start using extremist tactics to try and combat the other, than it's time for someone to come along and kick both their assess until they stop their nonsense and come to their senses, that person will be the pinicle of good.

Welcome to DA3, your the saintly man whose gonna punch a mage and templars teeth in for the pinicle of good.

[Lady Mortho]

"Magic holds all the secrets of the universe. It is the power of Gods. With it you can control the very mysteries of life; bend all lessermens to your will, take their worship and absolute obedience as your divine right!"

[Sutamina]

Lady Mortho wrote...

"Magic holds all the secrets of the universe. It is the power of Gods. With it you can control the very mysteries of life; bend all lessermens to your will, take their worship and absolute obedience as your divine right!"

and without magic people will find ways to achieve the same thing