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[sveners]

More than a year after ME3's release, and I'm still disappointed. I've had many theories on why, mostly when I'm left with my own thoughts, and I've not really found a satsifying explanation. The endings making sense, thematic shift, deus ex machina, plot holes, etc. 

Not until I read this piece ; www.gametourists.com/2012/06/when-you-lost-commander-shepard-you.html

We came and we stayed for Shepard.

Probably the best line to describe my Mass Effect experience.

Also;

"The devs kept saying at the end of the trilogy that Mass Effect is a 'story of sacrifice.' And I keep thinking, 'That's funny. I thought this was a story about Shepard.' Because if Shepard wanted to make a sacrifice, fine, she would. And that would be her story. But you can't make sacrifice a theme without allowing people to opt into it."


I imagine this is part of the reason so many long time fans are upset. For the people who started with ME2, it's less relevant. For those who jumped straight into ME3, I guess it's just hogwash.

I wish I could enjoy Destroy, if only for the implication that Shepard will survive.


What do you think?


Did you come, and stay, for Shepard?

Modifié par sveners, 26 avril 2013 - 07:36 .

[Phatose]

No.

Shepard I won't miss. He/She was composed of too many variables to give him/her any really defining traits.

It's the rest of the cast I'll miss.

[nopantsisabela]

Phatose wrote...

No.

Shepard I won't miss. He/She was composed of too many variables to give him/her any really defining traits.

It's the rest of the cast I'll miss.

Wow, really? That is a surprising perspective to me because I really liked that we were able to shape Shepard with our own choices to some extent. To me, Shep was like an odd mixture of a friend and myself (since I obviously made the decisions). I wanted the best for him/her and I'll definitely miss the character.

I started playing because my boyfriend made me. But I stayed for the characters. All of them.

Except maybe for Jacob.

Modifié par nopantsisabela, 26 avril 2013 - 07:50 .

[wright1978]

Agree completely with OP. I stayed and got attached to Shep because he was a player characterised protaganist that i got to imbue with characterisation rather than a defined piece of ****. The forced sacrifice stuff was incredibly poor,which is one tiny corner of the trainwreck that is the ME3 ending.

[sveners]

Phatose wrote...

No.

Shepard I won't miss. He/She was composed of too many variables to give him/her any really defining traits.

It's the rest of the cast I'll miss.

Fair enough We're all different. I guess I just like the chance to shape my character. Which is why games like the Witcher aren't really my cup of tea.

[Phatose]

nopantsisabela wrote...

Phatose wrote...

No.

Shepard I won't miss. He/She was composed of too many variables to give him/her any really defining traits.

It's the rest of the cast I'll miss.

Wow, really? That is a surprising perspective to me because I really liked that we were able to shape Shepard with our own choices to some extent. To me, Shep was like an odd mixture of a friend and myself (since I obviously made the decisions). I wanted the best for him/her and I'll definitely miss the character.

I started playing because my boyfriend made me. But I stayed for the characters. All of them.

Except maybe for Jacob.

Really.  That's not to say I really actively disliked Shepard, or anything like that.  It's just that Shepard was much more an extension of me then a character I was attached to.  A suit.  More clothing then a character.

[JamieCOTC]

Shepard is Mass Effect for me and the auto-dialogue of ME3 come close to ruining the character, not to mention character imports. For those who love cinematic action games like Uncharted, Dead Space and The Witcher, I can see where those issues wouldn't be a problem and that's understandable. Yes, Shepard is more dynamic in ME3, but it came at a very high cost, a loss of control.

I like all the characters to one degree or another, even Jacob. but it was Shepard, my Shepard, that made me stay and play the game.

[KaiserShep]

I have to agree with the OP on this one. The Shepard I made is not an extension of myself beyond some of her decisions. She's essentially a character I customized and guided a setting for, and is really the reason why I was attached to 1 and 2.

[Wynterdust]

Always preferred the squadmates. You are Shepard (unless you are role playing a certain kind of character to see various outcomes and what not.) So thinking of it that way, it is kind of like saying you are your own favourite character in my eyes. For me, Shepard dying so his closest friends as well as as many others as possible in the galaxy may live was never an issue and in fact one of the things I thought was good for the story. His survival is just a bonus to me in my end choice but would not have been disappointed if he died in all.

[CaptainCommander]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Shepard is Mass Effect for me and the auto-dialogue of ME3 come close to ruining the character, not to mention character imports. For those who love cinematic action games like Uncharted, Dead Space and The Witcher, I can see where those issues wouldn't be a problem and that's understandable. Yes, Shepard is more dynamic in ME3, but it came at a very high cost, a loss of control.

I like all the characters to one degree or another, even Jacob. but it was Shepard, my Shepard, that made me stay and play the game.

Its funny you mention imports cause I was just doing a complete ME replay through. Did ME1 imported to ME2 and have just finished Mars on ME3 and promptly switched the game off and put the disk away! MY Shepard just doesn't exist in ME3, Kaiden is suddenly all dickish to me and everything I did to get ready for the Reapers is just wasted!! ME3 is just a bad game that doesn't fit in the series and that article is so correct Shepard got lost. Our games got forced head-cannoned into Mac and Casey's ideas. 

[Steppenwolf]

BioWare lost Shepard when they forced him/her to be an emotional wreck in ME3. They tried to make us feel what they thought we should feel, regardless of who our Shepards are.

[Mr.House]

My Shepard was not lost. She completed her goal and survived to tell the tale.

[adayaday]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Shepard is Mass Effect for me and the auto-dialogue of ME3 come close to ruining the character, not to mention character imports. For those who love cinematic action games like Uncharted, Dead Space and The Witcher, I can see where those issues wouldn't be a problem and that's understandable. Yes, Shepard is more dynamic in ME3, but it came at a very high cost, a loss of control.

I like all the characters to one degree or another, even Jacob. but it was Shepard, my Shepard, that made me stay and play the game.

Pretty much this,only that for me the auto-dialogue was a complete kill.

[Mr.House]

CaptainCommander wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Shepard is Mass Effect for me and the auto-dialogue of ME3 come close to ruining the character, not to mention character imports. For those who love cinematic action games like Uncharted, Dead Space and The Witcher, I can see where those issues wouldn't be a problem and that's understandable. Yes, Shepard is more dynamic in ME3, but it came at a very high cost, a loss of control.

I like all the characters to one degree or another, even Jacob. but it was Shepard, my Shepard, that made me stay and play the game.

Its funny you mention imports cause I was just doing a complete ME replay through. Did ME1 imported to ME2 and have just finished Mars on ME3 and promptly switched the game off and put the disk away! MY Shepard just doesn't exist in ME3, Kaiden is suddenly all dickish to me and everything I did to get ready for the Reapers is just wasted!! ME3 is just a bad game that doesn't fit in the series and that article is so correct Shepard got lost. Our games got forced head-cannoned into Mac and Casey's ideas. 

ME2 did far more damage to Shepard then ME3 could ever hope to do.

[sveners]

Wynterdust wrote...

Always preferred the squadmates. You are Shepard (unless you are role playing a certain kind of character to see various outcomes and what not.) So thinking of it that way, it is kind of like saying you are your own favourite character in my eyes. For me, Shepard dying so his closest friends as well as as many others as possible in the galaxy may live was never an issue and in fact one of the things I thought was good for the story. His survival is just a bonus to me in my end choice but would not have been disappointed if he died in all.

Did you read the link?

[nopantsisabela]

Mr.House wrote...

My Shepard was not lost. She completed her goal and survived to tell the tale. *pic snip*

I really wish I could enjoy the MEHEM. I just feel like it doesn't make any sense though... because you still have no explanation as to how the Reapers were defeated.

[Bizinha]

Shepard + Crew = Mass Effect

Bioware can make other games with name 'mass effect', with the planets, the races... For me not the same thing.

It's like play Uncharted without Drake, Tomb Raider without Lara, Max Payne without Max, Metal Gear without Snake, God of War without Kratos, Mario Games without Mario....

[CaptainCommander]

Mr.House wrote...

CaptainCommander wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Shepard is Mass Effect for me and the auto-dialogue of ME3 come close to ruining the character, not to mention character imports. For those who love cinematic action games like Uncharted, Dead Space and The Witcher, I can see where those issues wouldn't be a problem and that's understandable. Yes, Shepard is more dynamic in ME3, but it came at a very high cost, a loss of control.

I like all the characters to one degree or another, even Jacob. but it was Shepard, my Shepard, that made me stay and play the game.

Its funny you mention imports cause I was just doing a complete ME replay through. Did ME1 imported to ME2 and have just finished Mars on ME3 and promptly switched the game off and put the disk away! MY Shepard just doesn't exist in ME3, Kaiden is suddenly all dickish to me and everything I did to get ready for the Reapers is just wasted!! ME3 is just a bad game that doesn't fit in the series and that article is so correct Shepard got lost. Our games got forced head-cannoned into Mac and Casey's ideas. 

ME2 did far more damage to Shepard then ME3 could ever hope to do.

I disagree. ME2 got me to explore a side of my Shepard! I hated working for Cerberus but ME2 is an amazing game! Game play is majorly improved, if exploration was kept like in ME1 but with the Hammerhead the game would be perfect!

[Mr.House]

CaptainCommander wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

CaptainCommander wrote...

JamieCOTC wrote...

Shepard is Mass Effect for me and the auto-dialogue of ME3 come close to ruining the character, not to mention character imports. For those who love cinematic action games like Uncharted, Dead Space and The Witcher, I can see where those issues wouldn't be a problem and that's understandable. Yes, Shepard is more dynamic in ME3, but it came at a very high cost, a loss of control.

I like all the characters to one degree or another, even Jacob. but it was Shepard, my Shepard, that made me stay and play the game.

Its funny you mention imports cause I was just doing a complete ME replay through. Did ME1 imported to ME2 and have just finished Mars on ME3 and promptly switched the game off and put the disk away! MY Shepard just doesn't exist in ME3, Kaiden is suddenly all dickish to me and everything I did to get ready for the Reapers is just wasted!! ME3 is just a bad game that doesn't fit in the series and that article is so correct Shepard got lost. Our games got forced head-cannoned into Mac and Casey's ideas. 

ME2 did far more damage to Shepard then ME3 could ever hope to do.

I disagree. ME2 got me to explore a side of my Shepard! I hated working for Cerberus but ME2 is an amazing game! Game play is majorly improved, if exploration was kept like in ME1 but with the Hammerhead the game would be perfect!

Really? Play a sole survior Shepard. Tell me there is nothing wrong at all. That's one example. How about Shepard acting like a robot when she met up with old characters? Kaidan? "Hows it going?" *headdesk* non-LOTSB Liara is so distant and ocld I feel liek I was talknig to a crappy Morrigan. Garrus? Nothing you did with him in ME mattered! I can go on.

Nothing in ME3 will ever come close to the immersion breakers and pulling me out of my character as mE2 did. Really I just think I played my Shepards clone in ME2 because that is not my Shepard in ME2.

Modifié par Mr.House, 26 avril 2013 - 08:25 .

[Argolas]

It's not Shepard's survival or not. A meaningful and heroic sacrifice of a character you care about can be immensely powerful. The ending is bad for various reasons, and neither Shepard dying (because it can be avoided) nor the endings being too sad (because they aren't, they leave the galaxy in a quite hopeful state actually) are serious issues. The real problem is something completely else:

The thing that I consider the main reason by now is this: The MEU used to be a consistent universe with fictional but clear rules which are thoroughly explained in dialogue and a large codex. These rules carry your experience because they create a universe that is fictional but believable. The ME3 ending broke those rules drastically without caring to explain how or why that is suddenly possible. That turned the believable fictional universe into some unbelievable weird place where anything can happen at any time. That invalidates not only the ending but your whole journey: What is your whole adventure worth if those rules you were following all the time are actually meaningless and can be broken that easily? A little analogy: You just spent 5 years working on something very special, very unique and you really enjoy doing that. After you finished, you suddenly learn that what you did was unnecessarily complicated and could have been easily done in 10 minutes. It's just a ****ty ending, but it also invalidates everything you did before and destroys all the fun you had. Even though the journey was fun, knowing what you know, you don't want to do it again because it lost its meaning.

Modifié par Argolas, 26 avril 2013 - 08:36 .

[SpamBot2000]

nopantsisabela wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

My Shepard was not lost. She completed her goal and survived to tell the tale. *pic snip*

I really wish I could enjoy the MEHEM. I just feel like it doesn't make any sense though... because you still have no explanation as to how the Reapers were defeated.

Well, the Crucible destroys them. It's not a perfect ending, but it's the best a mod can do.

As for the larger topic, one of the major problems with the ending is that it really flips the story of the Reapers being a problem that Shepard is trying to solve into Shepard being the problem that the writers of the scene are trying to solve, with the Reapers as the solution. Shepard is us. Damn straight it's offensive to support the franchise, only to be made into the problem at the end.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 26 avril 2013 - 08:35 .

[Yestare7]

Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. 

Don't sit there and cry, now we have a tool to re-create an essential part of the Story.
Good news and Positivity for all!!!
(personally I was OK with EC destroy, followed by Citadel party)

Mr.House wrote...

My Shepard was not lost. She completed her goal and survived to tell the tale.

[Yestare7]

nopantsisabela wrote...

I really wish I could enjoy the MEHEM. I just feel like it doesn't make any sense though... because you still have no explanation as to how the Reapers were defeated.

The catalyst and his baffling load of bull**** are the worst part of ME3, most people will agree.
Mr Fob wanted to take him out. And he did. 

Let the Reapers remain a mystery, it's better that way.
Anderson dies, Reapers blow up, THAT is the end.

oh wait, blue babies!!:D

Modifié par Yestare7, 26 avril 2013 - 08:47 .

[PsyrenY]

sveners wrote...

Fair enough We're all different. I guess I just like the chance to shape my character. Which is why games like the Witcher aren't really my cup of tea.

So shape a new one. Do you honestly think this will be the last Bioware RPG with a mutable protagonist?

[johnj1979]

I'll miss Shepard because Shepard should of had better send off that what we got with Mass Effect 3.

Is Shepard dead or not why can't anyone at Bioware answer such a simple question?