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[Lebanese Dude]

[quote]Argolas wrote...

It is just not Mass Effect. Shepard is not the "lone wolf" that can stand alone. Shepard is a natural leader that makes a group more powerful than an army. As such, Shepard needs constant help and backup. In Mass Effect, that help happens to be well-written characters that allow strong emotional attachment. It's one of the key concepts that made Mass Effect an outstanding franchise.

The typical situation is Shepard hanging on a cliff and someone comes to pull him/her up again. It happens all the time. Minor examples are in ME3 on the Geth dreadnought where the elevator collapses or on Thessia when Kai Leng leaves. There are also two major examples: In ME2 in the suicide mission, when you let too many friends die, no one is there to help Shepard back on the Normandy, and he/she is not able to pull back up him/herself, so he/she dies. In the Citadel DLC, it becomes even clearer because hanging from the Normandy, it is the defining difference between Shepard and Shepard's clone about who survives: One tries to be the "lone wolf" (the clone even says so literally earlier) and dies because Shepard can't stand alone. Shepard him/herself has friends who help him/her back up and lives. They really can't make it more obvious.

It makes complete sense for someone like Shepard to be able to pull him/herself up again in all those situations without any help, but he/she can't. This is for the same reason as the elevator collapses in the Geth dread at all, or the same reason why Shepard didn't make a clean jump back on the Normandy at the end of the suicide mission in the first place: It's not reality, it's a story, and there are no coincidences. Those scenes played out the way they did because they showed us a point, and that is that Shepard needs help and would fail alone. A hero may be able to stand alone, but that would be a different kind of hero, not Shepard.[/quote]




[/quote]

Well put.

[Bizinha]

Argolas wrote...

It is just not Mass Effect. Shepard is not the "lone wolf" that can stand alone. Shepard is a natural leader that makes a group more powerful than an army. As such, Shepard needs constant help and backup. In Mass Effect, that help happens to be well-written characters that allow strong emotional attachment. It's one of the key concepts that made Mass Effect an outstanding franchise.

The typical situation is Shepard hanging on a cliff and someone comes to pull him/her up again. It happens all the time. Minor examples are in ME3 on the Geth dreadnought where the elevator collapses or on Thessia when Kai Leng leaves. There are also two major examples: In ME2 in the suicide mission, when you let too many friends die, no one is there to help Shepard back on the Normandy, and he/she is not able to pull back up him/herself, so he/she dies. In the Citadel DLC, it becomes even clearer because hanging from the Normandy, it is the defining difference between Shepard and Shepard's clone about who survives: One tries to be the "lone wolf" (the clone even says so literally earlier) and dies because Shepard can't stand alone. Shepard him/herself has friends who help him/her back up and lives. They really can't make it more obvious.

It makes complete sense for someone like Shepard to be able to pull him/herself up again in all those situations without any help, but he/she can't. This is for the same reason as the elevator collapses in the Geth dread at all, or the same reason why Shepard didn't make a clean jump back on the Normandy at the end of the suicide mission in the first place: It's not reality, it's a story, and there are no coincidences. Those scenes played out the way they did because they showed us a point, and that is that Shepard needs help and would fail alone. A hero may be able to stand alone, but that would be a different kind of hero, not Shepard.

Exactly. Shepard is the only Shepard because of his team. They complete the Hero.I think that's why I hate that scene that speaks 'The Shepard' ... diminishing the importance of team.

[Argolas]

Thanks for all the approval. I summerized my thoughts on that in a thread of its own here

[SpamBot2000]

Yeah, that was an excellent post.

[eye basher]

After 3 games i can't handle shepard anymore i want someone new.

[Persephone]

Argolas wrote...

It is just not Mass Effect. Shepard is not the "lone wolf" that can stand alone. Shepard is a natural leader that makes a group more powerful than an army. As such, Shepard needs constant help and backup. In Mass Effect, that help happens to be well-written characters that allow strong emotional attachment. It's one of the key concepts that made Mass Effect an outstanding franchise.

The typical situation is Shepard hanging on a cliff and someone comes to pull him/her up again. It happens all the time. Minor examples are in ME3 on the Geth dreadnought where the elevator collapses or on Thessia when Kai Leng leaves. There are also two major examples: In ME2 in the suicide mission, when you let too many friends die, no one is there to help Shepard back on the Normandy, and he/she is not able to pull back up him/herself, so he/she dies. In the Citadel DLC, it becomes even clearer because hanging from the Normandy, it is the defining difference between Shepard and Shepard's clone about who survives: One tries to be the "lone wolf" (the clone even says so literally earlier) and dies because Shepard can't stand alone. Shepard him/herself has friends who help him/her back up and lives. They really can't make it more obvious.

It makes complete sense for someone like Shepard to be able to pull him/herself up again in all those situations without any help, but he/she can't. This is for the same reason as the elevator collapses in the Geth dread at all, or the same reason why Shepard didn't make a clean jump back on the Normandy at the end of the suicide mission in the first place: It's not reality, it's a story, and there are no coincidences. Those scenes played out the way they did because they showed us a point, and that is that Shepard needs help and would fail alone. A hero may be able to stand alone, but that would be a different kind of hero, not Shepard.

+100

[Bizinha]

tickle267 wrote...

without shepard I'm not interested in the next ME game, especially since her story still feels incomplete and the niggling fear that it will me less RPG/character driven and more halo-esque sci fi shooter.

THIS... for me ME die in 3º

[Megaton_Hope]

The way I originally read the title here, I thought you meant the loss of Shepard as a playable character, or Shepard's death. Losing autonomy over Shepard's actions (particularly alliance with Cerberus) does bother me as well, though.

[snakeboy86]

Honestly, I'm not really sad to see shepard go, what drew me into ME wasn't shepard, it was the Universe itself more than anything.

[SpamBot2000]

snakeboy86 wrote...

Honestly, I'm not really sad to see shepard go, what drew me into ME wasn't shepard, it was the Universe itself more than anything.

Well, it was even sadder to see the Universe go. Let's not kid ourselves, we all saw that happen.

[Twisted Path]

When I finished the first Mass Effect game and found out the series was meant to be a trilogy with the same protagonist I figured the protagonist would die at the end in some sort of big heroic sacrifice. I wouldn't have minded at all, an awesome heroic sacrifice would have been fine. They lost me when the ending was just really really bad.

I also didn't expect that the protagonist would die in the *middle* of the series. That was a really weird (and looking back, a really unnecessary and silly,) plot twist.

[AlanC9]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Well, it was even sadder to see the Universe go. Let's not kid ourselves, we all saw that happen.

We did?

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Well, it was even sadder to see the Universe go. Let's not kid ourselves, we all saw that happen.

We did?

'Twas cleft in three, as you, good sire, surely wittness'd.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

Great article. Sagequeen knows what ME is about. Shepard. Not some Synthetics Vs Organics bull****.

Shepard was you. And when Shepard died, the game practically killed you. The only people that didn't feel betrayed were the people that thought Shepard didn't represent them.

Even though MEHEM to Citadel DLC is there, it still doesn't feel right because Bioware hasn't canonized it, theoretically giving it no "this is what actually happened."

And oh god what a great and brilliant plot twist the Indoctrination Theory would have been. Tons of fans disappointed only to find out that it was a dream. Mind = blown. But no, they gave us a slideshow which did a little and skedaddled.

The Auto-Dialogue hurt, but meh. ME1 did it all correctly (except for the combat and inventory system.) ME4 should be more RPG-ish. I'll still play ME4 because it's the ME universe, but ME3 will always leave that big chunk of disappointment in my memory. Bioware has to do some really amazing things for ME4 to bring back the fanbase's morale.

[AlanC9]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...
Well, it was even sadder to see the Universe go. Let's not kid ourselves, we all saw that happen.

We did?

'Twas cleft in three, as you, good sire, surely wittness'd.

The three divergent futures? Actually more, since factoring Rannoch in I make it eight (Tuchanka's outcomes could be converged again if Bio really wanted to).

[AlanC9]

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Shepard was you. And when Shepard died, the game practically killed you. The only people that didn't feel betrayed were the people that thought Shepard didn't represent them.

And the people who thought that dying in the moment of final victory wasn't a particularly bad thing. I'd take it; it's extremely unlikely I'll die that well ITRW.

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

The three divergent futures? Actually more, since factoring Rannoch in I make it eight (Tuchanka's outcomes could be converged again if Bio really wanted to).

Well yeah, there is that too. It's on a smaller scale, but I guess it would be hard for them to dodge the issue. Just not mention the Quarians or the Geth for the whole game? Hmmm...

[sveners]

AlanC9 wrote...

ZeCollectorDestroya wrote...

Shepard was you. And when Shepard died, the game practically killed you. The only people that didn't feel betrayed were the people that thought Shepard didn't represent them.

And the people who thought that dying in the moment of final victory wasn't a particularly bad thing. I'd take it; it's extremely unlikely I'll die that well ITRW.

Dying in the moment of Victory sounds nice. Would be nicer if that wasn't (bar one) the  only victory available though.

Also, the Warden could die in Origins. That felt like victory. With a sad/touching funeral after. Here it's the Catalyst that is the hero. Bringing the basically dead human to his perch, and allowing him to choose the fate of the galaxy as he sees fit, based on the possibilities granted by the Crucible. The Catalyst can almost be considered a tragic hero. Dying to fix his mistake. Shepard is just the vehicle for his redemption.

And that sad little memorial. Cheers to those who died, "Admiral David E. Anderson", and... "Commander Shepard".

[rapscallioness]

As much as I love Shepard, and always will---3 games of the same PC was really quite enough for me.

[sveners]

rapscallioness wrote...

As much as I love Shepard, and always will---3 games of the same PC was really quite enough for me.

That's not really what the thread is about though, or the link.

The ME trilogy was supposed to be about Shepard', and her/his journey. We all knew this was the end of that journey.
People were fine with laying the Bhaalspawn to rest, same with Jade Empire's PC, Revan, Hawke, the Warden. 

Because they received a "fitting" end. (Well, some may complain about Hawke)

I'm not expecting the Warden or Hawke to be PC's in DA3. Their stories are done.

Modifié par sveners, 01 mai 2013 - 07:28 .