Witcher placeable conversion project
Débuté par
Tchos
, avril 27 2013 04:36
#26
Posté 29 avril 2013 - 11:23
casadechrisso
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Oooooh the wall section! More of that please, I'm already seeing all these new cozy interiors!
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#27
Posté 01 mai 2013 - 06:10
Tchos
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Today was a rather boring slog in converting a lot of weapons, shields, ammo, and other items that I don't see much use for. The interesting parts of this process are in converting things that I personally would like to use. These rest are mainly for the purpose of completeness. The staves are nice, though.
Interestingly, there are a couple of transportation-related items that are prefixed with the word "cut". There's a horse with attached cart and a boat. Possibly they were originally planning to allow the player to buy things to help get around faster, like in Daggerfall, where you could buy a horse with cart and a ship, both of which provided faster transportation and a place to store/carry your gear and loot.
Well, I finished the last of the items, so now it's on to the area conversions. This isn't going as smoothly, because of their size. The import/export plugins seem to have certain limitations. First, it can't seem to export a file with a file size of somewhere around 15 Mb, or it crashes. I'm managing to export them anyway by deleting any parts that aren't needed for the conversion process, like lights, walkmeshes, and terrain geometry. Since it's all untextured, though, I'm not entirely sure what's what. I'm only going by the object names.
Second, it gives errors when trying to import very large exteriors, like the swamps. It complains about vertices out of bounds. It doesn't crash, though, and what I got from the swamps looks like it might have all the important parts (huts, houses, tower, camp area, etc.) We'll see. It might just be failing to import the low-rez backdrop objects that you see off in the distance beyond the playable area.
Unfortunately, one of the largest areas, the Vizima Outskirts (gl09), loads only a wall and a walkmesh, and none of the country houses that you wanted, Casadecrisso. The plugin seems to just give up once it finds a vertex out of its bounds, even if there's more geometry not yet imported that's within bounds. This does not seem to be a matter of the file size or number of polygons, but strictly a matter of the physical dimensions of the area, because some much larger and more complex files opened, but their physical area was smaller.
Ah, but fear not! Area gl24 is another country area, and it contains the same assets, and this one loaded without trouble! Some time soon I'll see what I can do about separating and texturing individual parts of the areas as placeables. Is there a straightforward way of doing that in 3ds Max? There's no cut and paste option here like I'm used to seeing, and "clone" seems to clone the entire object, even if I have individual pieces selected.
Also, as requested, I've brought more of the window objects into the game, and a wall object. One of the windows is just a brick variation on the plaster one I showed before. The unwindowed wall looks like it's covered with a cloth along the top part of it, though, which looks strange. Keep in mind that the house interiors themselves in the Witcher are all single area-wide models like the exteriors, and these windows and walls are made to go over parts of them. As the screenshots show, these pieces are made for much higher ceilings than the standard interior tilesets in NWN2, which may make them awkward to use. The first windows I showed are only slightly taller, though, and can be resized to fit the standard tilesets.
The fourth of the window objects was missing its texture. Possibly they didn't use it in-game due to it having an actual barred window that you can see through in it. I applied the UV texture from one of the other walls, though, and it seemed to mostly match up. There are still 4 upper class windows that I haven't brought in yet, and 7 "partition" objects, a couple of which could be used as walls.
Illumination maps are handled differently in The Witcher, so I generated new ones. I think I may have toned down the later ones a little too much, though. They're possibly a bit too dim, though I could make a set for night lighting.
Windows and wall
For use with tall ceilings
Night lighting
Interestingly, there are a couple of transportation-related items that are prefixed with the word "cut". There's a horse with attached cart and a boat. Possibly they were originally planning to allow the player to buy things to help get around faster, like in Daggerfall, where you could buy a horse with cart and a ship, both of which provided faster transportation and a place to store/carry your gear and loot.
Well, I finished the last of the items, so now it's on to the area conversions. This isn't going as smoothly, because of their size. The import/export plugins seem to have certain limitations. First, it can't seem to export a file with a file size of somewhere around 15 Mb, or it crashes. I'm managing to export them anyway by deleting any parts that aren't needed for the conversion process, like lights, walkmeshes, and terrain geometry. Since it's all untextured, though, I'm not entirely sure what's what. I'm only going by the object names.
Second, it gives errors when trying to import very large exteriors, like the swamps. It complains about vertices out of bounds. It doesn't crash, though, and what I got from the swamps looks like it might have all the important parts (huts, houses, tower, camp area, etc.) We'll see. It might just be failing to import the low-rez backdrop objects that you see off in the distance beyond the playable area.
Unfortunately, one of the largest areas, the Vizima Outskirts (gl09), loads only a wall and a walkmesh, and none of the country houses that you wanted, Casadecrisso. The plugin seems to just give up once it finds a vertex out of its bounds, even if there's more geometry not yet imported that's within bounds. This does not seem to be a matter of the file size or number of polygons, but strictly a matter of the physical dimensions of the area, because some much larger and more complex files opened, but their physical area was smaller.
Ah, but fear not! Area gl24 is another country area, and it contains the same assets, and this one loaded without trouble! Some time soon I'll see what I can do about separating and texturing individual parts of the areas as placeables. Is there a straightforward way of doing that in 3ds Max? There's no cut and paste option here like I'm used to seeing, and "clone" seems to clone the entire object, even if I have individual pieces selected.
Also, as requested, I've brought more of the window objects into the game, and a wall object. One of the windows is just a brick variation on the plaster one I showed before. The unwindowed wall looks like it's covered with a cloth along the top part of it, though, which looks strange. Keep in mind that the house interiors themselves in the Witcher are all single area-wide models like the exteriors, and these windows and walls are made to go over parts of them. As the screenshots show, these pieces are made for much higher ceilings than the standard interior tilesets in NWN2, which may make them awkward to use. The first windows I showed are only slightly taller, though, and can be resized to fit the standard tilesets.
The fourth of the window objects was missing its texture. Possibly they didn't use it in-game due to it having an actual barred window that you can see through in it. I applied the UV texture from one of the other walls, though, and it seemed to mostly match up. There are still 4 upper class windows that I haven't brought in yet, and 7 "partition" objects, a couple of which could be used as walls.
Illumination maps are handled differently in The Witcher, so I generated new ones. I think I may have toned down the later ones a little too much, though. They're possibly a bit too dim, though I could make a set for night lighting.
Windows and wall
For use with tall ceilings
Night lighting
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#28
Posté 01 mai 2013 - 09:31
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Tchos wrote...
Some time soon I'll see what I can do about separating and texturing individual parts of the areas as placeables. Is there a straightforward way of doing that in 3ds Max? There's no cut and paste option here like I'm used to seeing, and "clone" seems to clone the entire object, even if I have individual pieces selected.
select the polys or whole elements (all connected polys with welded vertices), press "W" to go into move mode, hold shift and move the parts you want to clone. another dialogue pops up asking you if you want to place the copied polys/elements within the same mesh as a different element or as a new object. select object and give it a name.
uv coords are copied too so you don't have to unwrap it again.
#30
Posté 01 mai 2013 - 01:56
Rolo Kipp
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<running...>
You may also, at the point where Semper said to move the element, look to the rollout for "detach" which will give you the option to name a new object or clone as a separate element on the same object. This method doesn't require moving the mesh out of position.
<...on a treadmill>
You may also, at the point where Semper said to move the element, look to the rollout for "detach" which will give you the option to name a new object or clone as a separate element on the same object. This method doesn't require moving the mesh out of position.
<...on a treadmill>
#31
Posté 01 mai 2013 - 02:20
Tchos
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And after the parts I want are separate objects, then I would guess the best way to go from there would be to "export selected", eh?
#32
Posté 01 mai 2013 - 06:01
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Rolo Kipp wrote...
the rollout for "detach" which will give you the option to name a new object or clone as a separate element on the same object.
better click the detach as clone, else you're "destroying" the original mesh which could be troublesome if you're accidently saving your scene afterwards. because you have to move your object anyway it ain't that bad to do it straight away. it's also easier to check if you've got all the needed polys.
Tchos wrote...
And after the parts I want are separate
objects, then I would guess the best way to go from there would be to
"export selected", eh?
nope. it would be best to save selected first as a new scene and clean up your mesh. exported objects should be at the world's center flat on the ground, else the origin of the mesh is off and placing/rotating your object within the toolset sucks hard
#33
Posté 01 mai 2013 - 06:13
Tchos
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I didn't mean export to MDB in this case. I have to use export to save it as .3ds format rather than .max format, so that I can edit it in Gmax after the trial is ended, so I'm always exporting rather than saving as a scene. Every mesh I've processed has been moved to the origin, resting on the ground plane.
#35
Posté 02 mai 2013 - 01:22
NWN DM
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Very nice and super excellent of the Witcher guys to not have a problem with this.
#36
Posté 02 mai 2013 - 01:33
Tchos
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Yes, I have a great deal of respect for CD Projekt RED and their policies. Especially no DRM on their games and all the free upgrades and free DLCs they give away.
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#37
Posté 02 mai 2013 - 03:57
Tchos
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I've converted 39 areas to make them Gmax-ready. There are 14 areas left to convert, not counting the two or three that can't be fully imported. The remaining 14 are all interiors. After that, all that's left is to finish processing the remaining placeables for import into the NWN2 toolset, and separate some pieces of the areas. I may do some quick exports of the creatures after all, just for completeness.
Only a few placeable imports today -- part of a series on Aldie's World of Furniture. These are three cabinets suitable for a wizard, cartographer, or perhaps a clerk.
Cabinets
My recent activity has inspired Dropbox to point out their album functionality for image uploads. I'll try that next time there's more than one image to show, though it's still not the thumbnail functionality that I'd prefer.
Only a few placeable imports today -- part of a series on Aldie's World of Furniture. These are three cabinets suitable for a wizard, cartographer, or perhaps a clerk.
Cabinets
My recent activity has inspired Dropbox to point out their album functionality for image uploads. I'll try that next time there's more than one image to show, though it's still not the thumbnail functionality that I'd prefer.
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#38
Posté 02 mai 2013 - 07:53
MokahTGS
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Good night...I ignore the boards and you go nuts!! This is a new level of awesome!
#39
Posté 02 mai 2013 - 11:06
Tchos
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Heh, I guess it is a little nuts. Glad you're pleased, though. 
Today mostly I just brought the models into the toolset. No area conversions today.
I did a little experiment on one of the conversions. Some of the items in this collection have semi-transparent glass, and as we know, NWN2 does not support semi-transparency in placeables. It's either fully opaque or fully transparent.
I first tried using a diffusion pattern that I hoped would simulate transparency at a distance, but it doesn't look good at the resolutions of these textures, and I don't think scaling them up would be a good solution. Lack of antialiasing in cases like this requires a higher resolution to compensate.
While placeables can't have proper transparency, special effects can. For at least one of these placeables, the glass is a flat plane, so I made a billboard special effect that can be rotated as a placed effect, and grouped it with the cabinet so that they can be moved and rotated together. It works this way. One limitation is that special effects can't be scaled in the toolset, so that means you can't scale the cabinet if you want to use the glass with it. Another thing is that the glass is very subtle -- almost so unnoticeable that it's not worth the effort.
Before
After
Here's one of the things I really wanted to include from the Witcher assets -- a bulletin board of a sort that can be used for quest hooks; pointing the player to a particular NPC, for instance. In The Witcher, it was used as a container, from which you would take readable papers that would begin quests, which is another way of doing it aside from the usual conversation with a placeable.
Also in the screenshot are a couple of wall-mounted signboards for official proclamations. With decorative (?) burnt edges.
Bulletin board and signs
Here are the rest of the wall sections with windows, plus a couple without windows. Again, very tall. Sinking them into the floor and only using the top parts is a possible option, if you want to use them with the lower ceilings.
Walls and windows 1
Walls and windows 2
Today mostly I just brought the models into the toolset. No area conversions today.
I did a little experiment on one of the conversions. Some of the items in this collection have semi-transparent glass, and as we know, NWN2 does not support semi-transparency in placeables. It's either fully opaque or fully transparent.
I first tried using a diffusion pattern that I hoped would simulate transparency at a distance, but it doesn't look good at the resolutions of these textures, and I don't think scaling them up would be a good solution. Lack of antialiasing in cases like this requires a higher resolution to compensate.
While placeables can't have proper transparency, special effects can. For at least one of these placeables, the glass is a flat plane, so I made a billboard special effect that can be rotated as a placed effect, and grouped it with the cabinet so that they can be moved and rotated together. It works this way. One limitation is that special effects can't be scaled in the toolset, so that means you can't scale the cabinet if you want to use the glass with it. Another thing is that the glass is very subtle -- almost so unnoticeable that it's not worth the effort.
Before
After
Here's one of the things I really wanted to include from the Witcher assets -- a bulletin board of a sort that can be used for quest hooks; pointing the player to a particular NPC, for instance. In The Witcher, it was used as a container, from which you would take readable papers that would begin quests, which is another way of doing it aside from the usual conversation with a placeable.
Also in the screenshot are a couple of wall-mounted signboards for official proclamations. With decorative (?) burnt edges.
Bulletin board and signs
Here are the rest of the wall sections with windows, plus a couple without windows. Again, very tall. Sinking them into the floor and only using the top parts is a possible option, if you want to use them with the lower ceilings.
Walls and windows 1
Walls and windows 2
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#40
Posté 02 mai 2013 - 11:20
kamal_
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I'm really digging the windows, something that was sorely lacking in nwn2.
#41
Posté 03 mai 2013 - 02:10
Dann-J
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You can scale FX by assigning them to a non-static non-usable placeable, and then scaling the placeable. The challenge is finding a placeable you can hide. I've used the 'floor' placeables in indoor areas, since you can set them -0.01 below the floor level. Since they're two dimensional, scaling in the Z axis won't change their height.
It might also be possible to attach the FX to a collision box/ball. If it's non-usable then it should be both invisible and non-interactable. That's something I've never tried though.
Another way to fake glass is to clip that section of the texture out using the alpha channel, and adding a darkly coloured glow map to the same area (just like the lower legs of the drowned dead model). I used that technique to make a shadow dragon with transparent wings. The glass will tend to glow a bit in the dark though - although that makes it perfect for a lit lantern.
It might also be possible to attach the FX to a collision box/ball. If it's non-usable then it should be both invisible and non-interactable. That's something I've never tried though.
Another way to fake glass is to clip that section of the texture out using the alpha channel, and adding a darkly coloured glow map to the same area (just like the lower legs of the drowned dead model). I used that technique to make a shadow dragon with transparent wings. The glass will tend to glow a bit in the dark though - although that makes it perfect for a lit lantern.
Modifié par DannJ, 03 mai 2013 - 02:17 .
#42
Posté 03 mai 2013 - 03:03
Tchos
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Kamal: And how!
Dann: I attached an effect to a blueprint based on the collision ball (which I had set to usable, without dynamic collision) for the bit in my module where I made the X appear on the overland map so that you could click on the X directly, but it was not visible when I did so. I had to spawn the effect separately from the collision ball. So I don't think that approach will work here.
The other idea sounds good. I didn't know that effects scaled with placeables if they're attached to them. In that case, shouldn't I try to attach the effect to the cabinet itself, instead of a separate object?
The glowing of a transparent area sounds like a good approach, too.
Dann: I attached an effect to a blueprint based on the collision ball (which I had set to usable, without dynamic collision) for the bit in my module where I made the X appear on the overland map so that you could click on the X directly, but it was not visible when I did so. I had to spawn the effect separately from the collision ball. So I don't think that approach will work here.
The other idea sounds good. I didn't know that effects scaled with placeables if they're attached to them. In that case, shouldn't I try to attach the effect to the cabinet itself, instead of a separate object?
The glowing of a transparent area sounds like a good approach, too.
#43
Posté 03 mai 2013 - 05:41
Dann-J
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I've found that effects that change a creature's texture (stone skin, spider skin, barkskin, etc) certainly *do* work on collision boxes/balls (at least, they do in-game). Casting 'stone skin' on them turns them into grey blocks or balls of stone. Now I tend to give all my usable collision objects an OnSpellCastAt script that immediately removes the effects from such spells.
I don't like the thought of players seeing my collision objects. It's a "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" moment.
I don't like the thought of players seeing my collision objects. It's a "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" moment.
#44
Posté 03 mai 2013 - 05:44
Dann-J
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Tchos wrote...
The other idea sounds good. I didn't know that effects scaled with placeables if they're attached to them. In that case, shouldn't I try to attach the effect to the cabinet itself, instead of a separate object?
Provided the effect is offset so that its origin matches the origin of the cabinet, that would be the perfect solution. And one that didn't even occur to me.
#45
Posté 03 mai 2013 - 10:01
Tchos
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The offset would be the hard part, I think. Trial and error for me.
Did I hear somebody say "wish"?
(Caveat -- I know nothing of rigging these things for movement.)
PJ156 wrote...
I just wish there was a sheep model
Did I hear somebody say "wish"?
(Caveat -- I know nothing of rigging these things for movement.)
Modifié par Tchos, 03 mai 2013 - 10:10 .
#46
Posté 04 mai 2013 - 09:11
Tchos
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I looked through the material editor again and experimented for a while after I found a "metallic" setting, and I finally figured out how to create that fake "mirror" effect with the heavy glare. It washes out some of their nice texture work, but at least it reacts to the light instead of looking like a matte painting of a mirror. (In the Witcher, they actually have real reflections in the mirrors, which looks really nice on the supplied texture.)
Glare mirror
Also, no fantasy world should be without some good old-fashioned pub entertainment.
Game table
And I'm not sure if these are the kind of eggs Mokah had in mind for her module, but I put priority on their importation just in case. They're an aquatic monster kind of eggs that stick to a surface with some kind of disgusting substance. I'm using them for my kuo-toa and sahuagin areas (tinted to differentiate them).
Eggs
Glare mirror
Also, no fantasy world should be without some good old-fashioned pub entertainment.
Game table
And I'm not sure if these are the kind of eggs Mokah had in mind for her module, but I put priority on their importation just in case. They're an aquatic monster kind of eggs that stick to a surface with some kind of disgusting substance. I'm using them for my kuo-toa and sahuagin areas (tinted to differentiate them).
Eggs
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#47
Posté 04 mai 2013 - 09:41
kamal_
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I love how one side is monsters of some sort.Tchos wrote...
Also, no fantasy world should be without some good old-fashioned pub entertainment.
Game table
#48
Posté 04 mai 2013 - 09:58
Tchos
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Yeah, city guards versus ghouls, with a skull as a ball.
#49
Posté 05 mai 2013 - 01:49
MokahTGS
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Are there bigger, outside themed placeables? cliffs, rocks, trees, etc?
as far as eggs, I did these a while ago for Jabberwocky:
https://dl.dropboxus...snatch_egg1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxus...snatch_egg2.jpg
Those are the container fillers with a fun texture and tinting...the slime under the egg is also a container filler...scaled and different texture.
as far as eggs, I did these a while ago for Jabberwocky:
https://dl.dropboxus...snatch_egg1.jpg
https://dl.dropboxus...snatch_egg2.jpg
Those are the container fillers with a fun texture and tinting...the slime under the egg is also a container filler...scaled and different texture.
Modifié par MokahTGS, 05 mai 2013 - 01:50 .
#50
Posté 05 mai 2013 - 02:03
Tchos
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Yes, there's a fantastic gnarled bare-limbed tree I have separated out from one of the exterior areas. It's one of two items that I've taken out of the areas that didn't exist as separate placeables. I haven't tried texturing them yet, but I will. I'll look for some suitable rocks and cliffs.
It looks like you have the eggs taken care of.
It looks like you have the eggs taken care of.
