157 réponses à ce sujet

[Indy_S]

NeonFlux117 wrote...

When asked about this Casey Hudson said- "It would have been to video gammy". No joke, that's what he said.

No, he said "a fight with a reaperfied TIM would be too video gamey."

[SyK18]

Harbinger was is ME 3?!! WHAT!!!!???

[Isichar]

Too videogamey says Casey Hudson.

[NeonFlux117]

Indy_S wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

When asked about this Casey Hudson said- "It would have been to video gammy". No joke, that's what he said.

No, he said "a fight with a reaperfied TIM would be too video gamey."

ahhh yes, the details good sir, the details. Plus 10 reputation points for you. :wizard:

[Display Name Owner]

It's funny, but I never actually cared about Harbinger. It always felt to me that establishing it as the first and largest Reaper was just a way of trying to establish it as the arch nemesis, but I don't even think of it as one. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since Reapers are supposed to be so above us that they wouldn't deign to single out one tiny human speck of dust, but then that's kind of ruined by Harbinger's fixation on Shepard. But what I'm saying is Harbinger just doesn't feel like chief enemy material to me, and any attempt to make him such feels a bit contrived.

But that's just my opinion.

Personally I didn't miss having a final boss in ME3, but again that's just me.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

KC_Prototype wrote...

I know Im a year late but it really bugs that Bioware didn't implement a final conclusion of the series with Commander Shepard personally defeating the leader of the reapers. It would of been right before going to the citadel but after the EC cut scene and everything. Shepard would of grabbed some heavy weapons and the fight would start and after about 5 hits with a cain, Harbinger shots a beam at Shepard before an epic explosion initiating the scene where Shepard is unconscious and then wakes up all beat up with burnt armor and then slowly moves towards the beam like he originally does, that's how the battle should of gone and tied into the ending scene. Why wasn't this in the game??

That would have been a waste. But if you insist... I think it would have been too videogamey? And I really mean it. If you're going to do a Final Boss battle with Harbinger and a solo Shepard, do it right.

Think about this....Here you are probably with a pistol, or assault rifle and at most a Cain with about 3 shots and an ammo crate that reappears periodically in case you miss, and you have to lock onto Harbinger's "eyes" while dodging his blasts in between waves of husks, brutes, and banshees with no support from anyone. I'm assuming you're not hurt at this time. You have to get a lock on the eyes and fire the Cain, and hope to God that you don't get gored by a brute while you're trying to get a lock and charge the thing.

If you miss it does nothing to him. And if you run out of heavy ammo while you're waiting for the crate to respawn. You're going to be shooting stuff and hope you don't run out of thermal clips.

Should we put a check point after each eye? Nah.... Maybe after the third one. Harbinger gets pissed and there's a cutscene to disrupt your rhythm. Looks like you're finally going to get some support, but wait!!! The shuttle gets shot down by..... Rachni. And now you have to deal with Rachni on top of Harbinger and the Husks.

Two more eyes to go. Oh you're going to run straight to the beam? Can't. There's a wall there that dropped due to "plot" reasons. Boss fight baby. No escape.

Knock out all five eyes, Harbinger says something mocking. Now you make a flying leap up onto Harbinger's leg and climb up using knives that you're jamming into the hull and wildly pressing the A button so he doesn't shake you loose or shot by one of the marauders shooting at you, until you get right where one of the eyes were and find a large crack in the the hull, and plant a charge of C4-2187 in there. Remember you're like a gnat. Cutscene: You jump down, do an unflinching walk and hit the detonator. This leads to a Micheal Bay explosion and Harbinger falls to the ground dead.

The rest of the reapers s*** their pants and explode. Shepard (either male or female) lights a cigar.

If you do this you do not end the game with the kid.

[Mr.House]

Isichar wrote...

Too videogamey says Casey Hudson.

I love how people use this quote out of context to fit their agenda. News flash, ME team has nothing against boss fights, Citadel dlc proves this.

Modifié par Mr.House, 28 avril 2013 - 07:51 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Mr.House wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Too videogamey says Casey Hudson.

I love how people use this quote out of context to fit their agenda. News flash, ME team has nothing against boss fights, Citadel dlc proves this.

I totally agree, if they're done right. That one was done right. They also can be done so badly, like the one I illustrated.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 28 avril 2013 - 07:56 .

[Mr.House]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Too videogamey says Casey Hudson.

I love how people use this quote out of context to fit their agenda. News flash, ME team has nothing against boss fights, Citadel dlc proves this.

I totally agree, if they're done right. That one was done right. They also can be done so badly.

Frog Saren and The T-800 are back in my mind... Dammit Julia!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I really would have preferred a very tactical ending that involved some of your ME2 squad members along with your current squad, and a few random marines, and you had to fight your way to open the Citadel. No Harby appearance at the beam run. Your squad make it up the beam and you've got to get to a particular panel. Then the crucible docks. Then you've got to fight The Illusive Man's forces on the Citadel to the Crucible's Panel -- but you've got to leave a team to cover your back. and a specialist team to disable the keepers "wall moving". People can die along the way depending upon proper assignments, EMS. High EMS means the reapers could not effectively reinforce the Citadel.

Defeat TIM's forces, execute TIM, and make assignments per below, Cut scene to activate Crucible.

* High EMS -- Straight to cutscene. Everyone alive gets picked up by a shuttle to the Normandy. Kodiak can hold 14.
* Medium EMS -- range one to two must stay behind. Shepard can, EDI is a natural choice (replacement bodies are available at your local friendly Cronos), and if From Ashes Javik would insist.
* Low EMS -- Shepard must stay along with three others.

This is to protect the panel from being deactivated by reaper forces. Reapers & Intelligence destroyed by Crucible.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 28 avril 2013 - 08:16 .

[David7204]

So does that leave TIM as just a madman who wants to kill Shepard? I would really prefer him to be somewhat right.

Also, that seems a little soft on the player. Only a squadmate or two dying for medium EMS? I would be happy to have Javik snuff it. That doesn't seem like much of a consequence.

Modifié par David7204, 28 avril 2013 - 08:18 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David7204 wrote...

So does that leave TIM as just a madman who wants to kill Shepard?

Wants to use the crucible to control the reapers. Your mission is to destroy the reapers.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David7204 wrote...

So does that leave TIM as just a madman who wants to kill Shepard? I would really prefer him to be somewhat right.

Also, that seems a little soft on the player. Only a squadmate or two dying for medium EMS? I would be happy to have Javik snuff it. That doesn't seem like much of a consequence.

Well, add Shepard plus the two for medium. Shepard only gets to survive the High EMS.It really doesn't matter. It's not going to happen anyway.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 28 avril 2013 - 08:24 .

[David7204]

This is all assuming the Crucible would still be there, of course. Which it wouldn't be it if I had a chance to change things.

I think that for a very low EMS, there should be bigger consequences than just three crewmembers and Shepard dying. You can have the entire crew die in ME 2, and the stakes are supposed to be much bigger here.

Modifié par David7204, 28 avril 2013 - 08:25 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Of course, but then that path would have had to have started back immediately after ME1 instead of wasting that time with ME2 and the Cerberus "no plot" plot.

I had this detailed in another thread where in very low EMS half of earth still got baked, and the relays got very severely damaged.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 28 avril 2013 - 08:28 .

[David7204]

That simply isn't true.

And I wouldn't do it. I want the player asking "How the hell are we going to do this?" at the end of ME 2.

Not "How is this device (or whatever) going to save us (and we know it will because the story wouldn't have focused on it so heavily otherwise)?" No drama in that.

Modifié par David7204, 28 avril 2013 - 08:29 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David7204 wrote...

That simply isn't true.

And I wouldn't do it. I want the player asking "How the hell are we going to do this?" at the end of ME 2.

Not "How is this device going to save us (and we know it will because the story wouldn't have focused on it so heavily otherwise)?"

Rannoch. Peace between Quarian and Geth are the key to victory. Rannoch has the last manufacturing base left intact. The Geth can crank out ships. The Quarians are innovative. People like Xen are key. That's how we can win this.

[David7204]

The quarians and geth can certainly play a big role, but in general, no. This is a story about Shepard. Shepard is the protagonist. Not the quarians. Shepard needs to be one defeating the Reapers. If the quarians do all the work, the story needs to be about the quarians. Not about Shepard, and not about all the other races and themes Shepard encounters.

Modifié par David7204, 28 avril 2013 - 08:34 .

[SpamBot2000]

Obviously if there had been a Boss Fight with Harbinger, it would have meant Shepard going inside it. Harbinger is a space ship, it's got an interior.

This would have been a proper... er, consummation of the relationship established in ME2.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 28 avril 2013 - 08:41 .

[David7204]

Maybe. Maybe not.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
That would have been a waste. But if you insist... I think it would have been too videogamey? And I really mean it. If you're going to do a Final Boss battle with Harbinger and a solo Shepard, do it right. 

Think about this....Here you are probably with a pistol, or assault rifle and at most a Cain with about 3 shots and an ammo crate that reappears periodically in case you miss, and you have to lock onto Harbinger's "eyes" while dodging his blasts in between waves of husks, brutes, and banshees with no support from anyone. I'm assuming you're not hurt at this time. You have to get a lock on the eyes and fire the Cain, and hope to God that you don't get gored by a brute while you're trying to get a lock and charge the thing.

If you miss it does nothing to him. And if you run out of heavy ammo while you're waiting for the crate to respawn. You're going to be shooting stuff and hope you don't run out of thermal clips.

Should we put a check point after each eye? Nah.... Maybe after the third one. Harbinger gets pissed and there's a cutscene to disrupt your rhythm. Looks like you're finally going to get some support, but wait!!! The shuttle gets shot down by..... Rachni. And now you have to deal with Rachni on top of Harbinger and the Husks.

Two more eyes to go. Oh you're going to run straight to the beam? Can't. There's a wall there that dropped due to "plot" reasons. Boss fight baby. No escape.

Knock out all five eyes, Harbinger says something mocking. Now you make a flying leap up onto Harbinger's leg and climb up using knives that you're jamming into the hull and wildly pressing the A button so he doesn't shake you loose or shot by one of the marauders shooting at you, until you get right where one of the eyes were and find a large crack in the the hull, and plant a charge of C4-2187 in there. Remember you're like a gnat. Cutscene: You jump down, do an unflinching walk and hit the detonator. This leads to a Micheal Bay explosion and Harbinger falls to the ground dead.

The rest of the reapers s*** their pants and explode. Shepard (either male or female) lights a cigar.

If you do this you do not end the game with the kid.

I can't tell the serious proposals from the parodies anymore.

[CSunkyst]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

CSunkyst wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Tell me, how exactly would a boss battle with the Illusive Man have done a single thing to alleviate any of the problems with the ending?

Well, the ending would STILL suck more than the worst ending of almost every other story ever made, BUT with a boss fight against Harbinger (Either directly or through some proxy such as TIM) then at least then the game would have something resembling a climax.  So it would be a minor improvement. 

Then it got one; you remember there was a final confrontation with TIM, right? Who is indoctrinated, and therefore practically Harbinger with a more interesting personality.

It wasn't a boss fight because a boss fight between a crippled space marine and an unnarmed man in a sharp suit does not make for a good climax. So it was done through dialogue, as is appropriate for a talky game.

The series was about the Reapers, the bit at the end with TIM was the conclusion to a side story and NOT the main reaper story.  The series is left hanging without a climax. 

Because "art"

In quotes, because Mr. Hudson is a whole lot less artistic than he apparently thinks he is. 

Modifié par CSunkyst, 28 avril 2013 - 09:07 .

[David7204]

None of the developers have ever used 'artistic integrity' as a defense, and it's incredible tedious to hear morons continually repeat it nonetheless.

[CSunkyst]

David7204 wrote...

None of the developers have ever used 'artistic integrity' as a defense, and it's incredible tedious to hear morons continually repeat it nonetheless.

I never said anyone at Bioware defended ME3 with artistic integrity.  However, with a boss battle being "too video gamey" it's rather obvious that Casey and/or Mac had their head burried up their ass and thought they were "too good" to write the ending to a "mere" video game adventure story.

It's OK to try something different, but if you're going to break the rules you HAVE to really know what you're doing.  ME3's ending was different for the sake of being different, they inexplicably tried to turn a space action adventure story into some kind of avant garde... something or other, and it failed miserably.   

So even though nobody used "artistic integrity" as a defense, it was kind of obvious that they were trying (and failing) to be "arty" with the ending.  If you can't see that, I think you may be the moron here.

Modifié par CSunkyst, 28 avril 2013 - 09:33 .

[Reorte]

David7204 wrote...

None of the developers have ever used 'artistic integrity' as a defense, and it's incredible tedious to hear morons continually repeat it nonetheless.

Some morons posting on BSN defending ME3's drivel use it though.