157 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

As I've said, including a boss battle would have done nothing to alleviate the problems with the ending. Associating those problems with the lack of a boss battle is just stupid. And I would think it's obvious that BioWare is perfectly fine with boss battles, given they included one in Citadel. That comment was made specifically in reference to a boss battle with the Illusive Man, which, again, would have just been stupid.

[Reorte]

David7204 wrote...

That simply isn't true.

And I wouldn't do it. I want the player asking "How the hell are we going to do this?" at the end of ME 2.

Not "How is this device (or whatever) going to save us (and we know it will because the story wouldn't have focused on it so heavily otherwise)?" No drama in that.

Sure, but that would require even more reworking. It depends on whether you're taking the view of "This is what it should've been in the first place" or "What could be done to at least make the whole thing OK with minimum work?" All academic of course since nothing's going to be changed.

As for a boss battle, good that it wasn't in there. The idea that the Reapers could be defeated by one fight between Shepard and one of them (or even worse, someone else) is ludicrous. Quite honestly Shepard's role should've been over once he got the galaxy together. From then on it would be everyone working together, with no individual that prominent. Shepard and the Normandy would still be involved, of course.

Modifié par Reorte, 28 avril 2013 - 09:43 .

[CSunkyst]

David7204 wrote...

As I've said, including a boss battle would have done nothing to alleviate the problems with the ending. Associating those problems with the lack of a boss battle is just stupid. And I would think it's obvious that BioWare is perfectly fine with boss battles, given they included one in Citadel. That comment was made specifically in reference to a boss battle with the Illusive Man, which, again, would have just been stupid.

And the series still doesn't have a climax.  I'll take dumb AND some vague form of closure or a climax of ANY kind with Harbinger and the Reapers. 

The ending is dumb with or without a boss battle.  Either way you slice it it's broke. 

Modifié par CSunkyst, 28 avril 2013 - 09:47 .

[SpamBot2000]

David7204 wrote...

None of the developers have ever used 'artistic integrity' as a defense, and it's incredible tedious to hear morons continually repeat it nonetheless.

Goddamn it, Ray Muzyka, the boss of those developers, did indeed use that as defense, and everything the developers have stated since has been based on that. Like you damn well know. It's been what, a week since I last posted the actual quote as a reply for you parroting the lie that they haven't.

Talk about tedious. Here we go, again:

"I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team.  The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game."

blog.bioware.com/2012/03/21/4108/

What more is it going to take for your superior intelligence to grasp that? A papier mache model?

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 28 avril 2013 - 03:21 .

[Oni Changas]

Boss battle would at least give us a confrontation with our enemy's general. Instead we get 3 rounds of platinum.

Too video gamey for ya?

[Han Shot First]

David7204 wrote...

Because it's utterly stupid.

That being said, I do think Shepard should have been able to...not necessarily 'fight' Harbinger, but turn the tables on him somehow. Defeat him in a single moment of great courage, skill, or willpower. And it needs to be on foot, preferably with no exotic weapons or equipment. Sovereign too, for that matter.

The only question is, how? This is difficult.

A battle against indoctrination might have been a good way to implement a battle where it is a test of wills, rather than actual physical combat. Having said that, I don't and never have subscribed to IT.

The boss 'battle' at the end could have been an an attempt by Harbinger to indoctrinate Shepard and prevent him/her from activating the Crucible at the last minute. In that scenario the final conversation is not with the Star Brat, but by some sort of projection of Harbinger's mind.

[AresKeith]

Han Shot First wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Because it's utterly stupid.

That being said, I do think Shepard should have been able to...not necessarily 'fight' Harbinger, but turn the tables on him somehow. Defeat him in a single moment of great courage, skill, or willpower. And it needs to be on foot, preferably with no exotic weapons or equipment. Sovereign too, for that matter.

The only question is, how? This is difficult.

A battle against indoctrination might have been a good way to implement a battle where it is a test of wills, rather than actual physical combat. Having said that, I don't and never have subscribed to IT.

The boss 'battle' at the end could have been an an attempt by Harbinger to indoctrinate Shepard and prevent him/her from activating the Crucible at the last minute. In that scenario the final conversation is not with the Star Brat, but by some sort of projection of Harbinger's mind.

I would have been ok with this

[GimmeDaGun]

Simple, because it would be damn stupid... a mortal man fighting one on one with a 2 km long, zillion years old, powerfull cyber-ship with the intelligence and arrogance of a whole apex predator race, with a several million tons heavy nano-hull.

[Lykurgos88]

Lol, Shepard's infantry weapons can only tickle that 2 km tall Harbinger. Harby would only have to use *roflstomp* and that's it.

I mean seriously, were people really expecting Shepard to fight Harbinger single handedly, or is this just some epic level trolling? Cause I can't really tell if you are serious or not.

[AresKeith]

You all do that know that "boss battle" doesn't always mean literally shooting at Harbinger right?

[Han Shot First]

AresKeith wrote...

You all do that know that "boss battle" doesn't always mean literally shooting at Harbinger right?

This.

When people say they wanted a boss battle with Harbinger, I think most of them mean a battle with an avatar of Harbinger. They're talking about Shepard fighting a man-sized (or slightly larger) enemy, rather than a 2 km long warship.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 28 avril 2013 - 07:16 .

[AresKeith]

Han Shot First wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

You all do that know that "boss battle" doesn't always mean literally shooting at Harbinger right?

This.

When people say they wanted a boss battle with Harbinger, I think most of them mean a battle with an avatar of Harbinger. They're talking about Shepard fighting a man-sized (or slightly larger) enemy, rather than a 2 km long warship.

Even fighting inside him and destroying his Organic core counts as a boss battle

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

AlanC9 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
That would have been a waste. But if you insist... I think it would have been too videogamey? And I really mean it. If you're going to do a Final Boss battle with Harbinger and a solo Shepard, do it right. 

Think about this....Here you are probably with a pistol, or assault rifle and at most a Cain with about 3 shots and an ammo crate that reappears periodically in case you miss, and you have to lock onto Harbinger's "eyes" while dodging his blasts in between waves of husks, brutes, and banshees with no support from anyone. I'm assuming you're not hurt at this time. You have to get a lock on the eyes and fire the Cain, and hope to God that you don't get gored by a brute while you're trying to get a lock and charge the thing.

If you miss it does nothing to him. And if you run out of heavy ammo while you're waiting for the crate to respawn. You're going to be shooting stuff and hope you don't run out of thermal clips.

Should we put a check point after each eye? Nah.... Maybe after the third one. Harbinger gets pissed and there's a cutscene to disrupt your rhythm. Looks like you're finally going to get some support, but wait!!! The shuttle gets shot down by..... Rachni. And now you have to deal with Rachni on top of Harbinger and the Husks.

Two more eyes to go. Oh you're going to run straight to the beam? Can't. There's a wall there that dropped due to "plot" reasons. Boss fight baby. No escape.

Knock out all five eyes, Harbinger says something mocking. Now you make a flying leap up onto Harbinger's leg and climb up using knives that you're jamming into the hull and wildly pressing the A button so he doesn't shake you loose or shot by one of the marauders shooting at you, until you get right where one of the eyes were and find a large crack in the the hull, and plant a charge of C4-2187 in there. Remember you're like a gnat. Cutscene: You jump down, do an unflinching walk and hit the detonator. This leads to a Micheal Bay explosion and Harbinger falls to the ground dead.

The rest of the reapers s*** their pants and explode. Shepard (either male or female) lights a cigar.

If you do this you do not end the game with the kid.

I can't tell the serious proposals from the parodies anymore.

The use of the "unflinching walk" trope, and the fact I said this was an example of a badly done boss fight two posts later should indicate it was a parody. Sometimes parodies are fun to write out. I thought the use of the knives to climb up the exterior of Harbinger was quite ridiculous yet I've seen stuff like that done in action movies that are parodies of action movies. The fact that a small amount of explosive could blow a reaper apart with a Michael Bay explosion absolutely requires the unflinching walk and the lighting of the cigar. Oh crap. I forgot the sunglasses.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Boss battles are rarely any good. Not to mention that they almost always feels completely out of place in a story based game.

The less boss battles, the better the game is.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Boss battles are rarely any good. Not to mention that they almost always feels completely out of place in a story based game.

The less boss battles, the better the game is.

Dark Souls, The Witcher, Persona, the Witcher and several other games say hello. Just because bioware can't quite get a handle on them doesn't mean good ones don't exist.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 28 avril 2013 - 07:47 .

[Han Shot First]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Boss battles are rarely any good. Not to mention that they almost always feels completely out of place in a story based game.

The less boss battles, the better the game is.

Dark Souls, The Witcher, Persona, the Witcher and several other games say hello. Just because bioware can't quite get a handle on them doesn't mean good ones don't exist.

I think Bioware's boss battles were kind of hit-and-miss. Oddly, their better boss battles were all in DLC. I'd rank the Brooks and CloneShep battle, Tela Vasir, and the Shadow Broker as all being hits, with Saren/Sovereign, Baby Reaper, and both Kai Lengs as being misses.

[AresKeith]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Boss battles are rarely any good. Not to mention that they almost always feels completely out of place in a story based game.

The less boss battles, the better the game is.

Dark Souls, The Witcher, Persona, the Witcher and several other games say hello. Just because bioware can't quite get a handle on them doesn't mean good ones don't exist.

Bioware's best and most well done boss battle is Tela Vasir in LotSB, so its definitely possible for a good one in ME3

[GreyLycanTrope]

Han Shot First wrote...
I think Bioware's boss battles were kind of hit-and-miss. Oddly, their better boss battles were all in DLC. I'd rank the Brooks and CloneShep battle, Tela Vasir, and the Shadow Broker as all being hits, with Saren/Sovereign, Baby Reaper, and both Kai Lengs as being misses.

I don't disagee with this assesment.

[Gabbenator8787]

 A boss fight could definitely work if implemented correctly game mechanic wise. Sadly reducing Harby to a silent 50 second "soot em up" cameo is just one of about 100 things ME 3 screws up with in its final mission and ending.

Also more tragic are the people who claim Harbinger was just one of many reapers and never set up to be the true antagonist usually being the same Bioware fanboys who think MEs ending was actually good...

Modifié par Gabbenator8787, 28 avril 2013 - 07:59 .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

AresKeith wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Boss battles are rarely any good. Not to mention that they almost always feels completely out of place in a story based game.

The less boss battles, the better the game is.

Dark Souls, The Witcher, Persona, the Witcher and several other games say hello. Just because bioware can't quite get a handle on them doesn't mean good ones don't exist.

Bioware's best and most well done boss battle is Tela Vasir in LotSB, so its definitely possible for a good one in ME3

Worst part of the entire Shadow Broker DLC. You pretty much do the same boring thing for five minutes straight. Bossbattles in a nutshell.

[Gabbenator8787]

*deleted*

Modifié par Gabbenator8787, 28 avril 2013 - 07:58 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...
Bossbattles in a nutshell.

Far from it.

[AresKeith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Worst part of the entire Shadow Broker DLC. You pretty much do the same boring thing for five minutes straight. Bossbattles in a nutshell.

All your opinion and subjective

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Well.. Yea?!

[AresKeith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Well.. Yea?!

And that's not all Boss Battles in a nutshell