157 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

 

Because Harbinger would win:P:P

Sad but true.  In order to do a boss fight with Harby, Harby would have to come down to our level in some way.... oh right, so all of ME2 was basically a string of Harby boss fights. Huh.

We are your salvation through your destruction...... Surrender and you will be spared..... This hurts you.... My attacks will tear you apart..... If I must destroy you, Shepard, I will...... Assuming control of this form.....

[grey_wind]

There didn't have to be an actual boss battle at the end, but there should have been a simultaneous narrative and gameplay climax that substituted for one. And Harbinger is a bit implausible to design as a boss battle (unless, of course, you're fighting an avatar).

One way this could work is if Harbinger is the Reaper defending the beam in London (not some useless Destroyer), and Priority: London is basically you fighting through waves of enemies in order to get to a good strategic position from which you can aim the Rannoch syncing laser at him in order for your war assets to rain hellfire down on him. Could have been much better than the uninspired "defend the missiles" nonsense.

[ElSuperGecko]

Because Bioware MADE A MISTAKE.

[dorktainian]

art.

[Bizinha]

Because it is very video game, after all want a piece of art.

[SpamBot2000]

chemiclord wrote...

Because he DIDN'T do so.

Muzyka is not using the phrase to defend ANYTHING. He is not saying anything about we won't change it because of "artistic integrity." THAT is where the disingenuous part comes in. You WANT him to be saying that so that you can turn him, and by extension Bioware, into an enemy; an enemy you can justifiably rage against (which you have done so MANY times with any number of conspiracy theories, I may add).

Seriously, guys and gals, you should listen to this fellow rant about how Walters INTENTIONALLY destroyed the Mass Effect video game series so that he could sell more comic books about the setting he just intentionally destroyed.  It's hilarious.

All that statement says is, "I support my team's decision to not do something they don't want to do. This is the ending they want." That you want it to say more isn't Muzkya's or Bioware's problem.

You're just going to prostitute the very meaning of the words because you don't like my uppity attitude? And you're a writer of some sort? Ever hear of integrity?

And that's not how my conspiracy theory goes. Look it up. It's about them intentionally terminating the setting to get out of making Mass Effect games. The ending terminates the setting. You think it wasn't intentional? That these guys are drooling idiots?

We've had our share of differences, but I always thought you were better than this.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 29 avril 2013 - 06:13 .

[Mr.House]

tickle267 wrote...

/stupid snip

You need to play more video games. Sometimes final bosses DO NOT FIT the game. Examples, Half-Life 2 and Bioshock Infinte. Another example would be TW2 hich depending on your choice you would have no final boss, just an epic conversation.

So the whole logic that a game needs to have a final boss is folly and why we got Robo Saren and T-800 in the first place.

[Argolas]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Because Bioware MADE A MISTAKE.

I fckn love steak

[AresKeith]

Mr.House wrote...

tickle267 wrote...

/stupid snip

You need to play more video games. Sometimes final bosses DO NOT FIT the game. Examples, Half-Life 2 and Bioshock Infinte. Another example would be TW2 hich depending on your choice you would have no final boss, just an epic conversation.

So the whole logic that a game needs to have a final boss is folly and why we got Robo Saren and T-800 in the first place.

What's funny is that ME1 almost did what you said for TW2 with Saren before he turned into Frog Saren

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Frog Saren was there just to be there. It was the "arcade throwback" to the video games of the past. Story-wise it did not need to be there. Especially after you convinced Saren to do the galaxy a favor. "There's still one way to end this, if you've got the guts." Or if you'd just fought Saren ... yes, some people didn't get the conversation option.

I thought Saren looked more like one of those "light doggies" from Halo 4.

[Big Bad]

I don't need a boss battle with Harbinger per se, but given the fact that he is pretty much the "face" of the Reapers up until the end, it would have been nice to have some sort of extended confrontation with him. Of course, given that Bioware felt it was a good idea to exchange Harbinger for StarChild as the face of the Reapers during the last five minutes of the series, they probably thought an extra conversation with Harbinger would have been superfluous. Yet another reason to hate that damn kid.

[Killdren88]

Yeah as much as I would love to duke it out with Harbinger, It would be difficult. The only way I can see it done is if Harby was on Sheps level.

For instance. Shep and his squad are running across London and as they run Harbinger comes flying down blowing Shep and cos path to bits. Shepard gets separated and is alone with Harbinger.They exchange dialogue and Harbinger is about to finish off Shep. In the meantime Hacket was keeping taps on Harbinger and we have a Return of the Jedi moment and the fleet concentrates all their focus on Harbinger hitting him from Orbit. Nearby getting overwhelmed by sudden punishment decides to abandoned ship. I always thought that Reapers would have smaller bodies they can escape into in case they get overwhelmed. Anyway Harbinger escapes his body into a smaller one. I imagine his smaller body would be very powerful in biotics as well as teleportation like banshees. And I suppose a reaper-fiefied omni blade in hand for close quarters. I would also think that Harbinger would be upset to say the least being forced to resort to his secondary form. So I imagine he would want Shep to suffer.

So the fight would commence. I would think the fight would be one sided. Shep having his/ her ass kicked. During the fight I would like to think Shep would goad harbinger comparing his anger say he sounds just like an organic. Harbinger being angered that he is seen on the same level as organics gets mad. And as a machine he can process emotion. So anger makes him REALLY angry. Making him more violent and reckless.

As the fight continues Harbinger continues to beat down Shep. If Shep has a LI they will come and try to fight. Of course Shep would be like " No! Get out of here!" Of course the LI won't listen and move on harby. Needless to say they get beaten down. With the LI beaten down in a corner Harbinger prepare a biotic attack to kill your LI. Now you have a choice. Step in the way taking the hit your LI survives but Shep is badly wounded activating hard mode for the rest of the fight. Or let your LI die to make Shep go into rage mode and make the fight a bit easier. Eventually if Shep wins they loom over Harbinger who is pretty broken at this point and we get a scene resembles the second episode of the walking dead game when Lee repeatedly punches the guy in the face. We something like that with Shep with their omin weapons. They repeatedly punch Haeby in the face until his chassis cracks. They share some more dialogue with harbinger claiming this changes nothing then Shep runs him through with an omin blade. The fights over.

That is how I see it anyway....

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Killdren88 wrote...

Yeah as much as I would love to duke it out with Harbinger, It would be difficult. The only way I can see it done is if Harby was on Sheps level.

For instance. Shep and his squad are running across London and as they run Harbinger comes flying down blowing Shep and cos path to bits. Shepard gets separated and is alone with Harbinger.They exchange dialogue and Harbinger is about to finish off Shep. In the meantime Hacket was keeping taps on Harbinger and we have a Return of the Jedi moment and the fleet concentrates all their focus on Harbinger hitting him from Orbit. Nearby getting overwhelmed by sudden punishment decides to abandoned ship. I always thought that Reapers would have smaller bodies they can escape into in case they get overwhelmed. Anyway Harbinger escapes his body into a smaller one. I imagine his smaller body would be very powerful in biotics as well as teleportation like banshees. And I suppose a reaper-fiefied omni blade in hand for close quarters. I would also think that Harbinger would be upset to say the least being forced to resort to his secondary form. So I imagine he would want Shep to suffer.

So the fight would commence. I would think the fight would be one sided. Shep having his/ her ass kicked. During the fight I would like to think Shep would goad harbinger comparing his anger say he sounds just like an organic. Harbinger being angered that he is seen on the same level as organics gets mad. And as a machine he can process emotion. So anger makes him REALLY angry. Making him more violent and reckless.

As the fight continues Harbinger continues to beat down Shep. If Shep has a LI they will come and try to fight. Of course Shep would be like " No! Get out of here!" Of course the LI won't listen and move on harby. Needless to say they get beaten down. With the LI beaten down in a corner Harbinger prepare a biotic attack to kill your LI. Now you have a choice. Step in the way taking the hit your LI survives but Shep is badly wounded activating hard mode for the rest of the fight. Or let your LI die to make Shep go into rage mode and make the fight a bit easier. Eventually if Shep wins they loom over Harbinger who is pretty broken at this point and we get a scene resembles the second episode of the walking dead game when Lee repeatedly punches the guy in the face. We something like that with Shep with their omin weapons. They repeatedly punch Haeby in the face until his chassis cracks. They share some more dialogue with harbinger claiming this changes nothing then Shep runs him through with an omin blade. The fights over.

That is how I see it anyway....

I am General Moskvin and I endorse this post.

[KC_Prototype]

Ok maybe it doesn't happened necessarily the way I described it but it at least gives us an epic battle with an epic fight! People who think it's a bad idea, stop for a minute and think outside of the box, Shepard wasn't supposed to defeat the reapers who were more technologically advanced than any species but they did and we knew he and the rest of the galaxy would, so why not have an epic boss fight where Shepard SHOULD die because of Harbinger's many advantages but Shepard again overcomes the impossible and defeats the Reaper. Have that instead of him kicking everyone's ass and leaving and then never being heard about again(Did he even talk in the game?), when He was killing everyone on the way to the beam I was getting pissed and I wanted to kill him.

Modifié par KC_Prototype, 30 avril 2013 - 07:24 .

[JamesFaith]

chemiclord wrote...

Because he DIDN'T do so.

Muzyka is not using the phrase to defend ANYTHING. He is not saying anything about we won't change it because of "artistic integrity." THAT is where the disingenuous part comes in. You WANT him to be saying that so that you can turn him, and by extension Bioware, into an enemy; an enemy you can justifiably rage against (which you have done so MANY times with any number of conspiracy theories, I may add).

Seriously, guys and gals, you should listen to this fellow rant about how Walters INTENTIONALLY destroyed the Mass Effect video game series so that he could sell more comic books about the setting he just intentionally destroyed.  It's hilarious.

All that statement says is, "I support my team's decision to not do something they don't want to do. This is the ending they want." That you want it to say more isn't Muzkya's or Bioware's problem.

Absolutely agree with you, Chemiclord.

Problem is that "artistic integrity" is one of last big "weapons" against BW. It is hard for some people here accept true when they already lost " 16 endings" (mistake of IGN(?) who mischanged Witcher 2 with ME3 in short article) or  "don't be too attached to plot" (missimpreted and explained by Merizan).  Quote "bosses are to videogamey" still live as this thread proved few times, but some people already accepted true that it was just twisted quote about TIM's transformation.

But "fighting" with memes and stupid pictures is sooo much easier then real argumentation for some people.

[SpamBot2000]

JamesFaith wrote...

Problem is that "artistic integrity" is one of last big "weapons" against BW. It is hard for some people here accept true when they already lost " 16 endings" (mistake of IGN(?) who mischanged Witcher 2 with ME3 in short article) or  "don't be too attached to plot" (missimpreted and explained by Merizan).  Quote "bosses are to videogamey" still live as this thread proved few times, but some people already accepted true that it was just twisted quote about TIM's transformation.

But "fighting" with memes and stupid pictures is sooo much easier then real argumentation for some people.

And why don't you argue what that paragraph by Ray Muzyka I quoted is really saying? As far as I can tell, he

1) professes a strong belief that games are indeed art

2) says that he "supports the artistic choices" that the team made 

3) says that they are looking at how to modify the game insofar as is compatible with the "artistic integrity" of the game.

That is, he is explicitly saying that some changes to the ending would be unacceptable because that would be a violation of the artistic integrity of the work and those who made it. In other words, he is defending the ending by invoking the concept of artistic integrity.

I realize that some people prefer to "fight" actual demonstrations of proof of claims with blanket denial that frankly borders on the pathological. But you obviously like real argumentationa lot, so why don't you show the rest of us how it's done?

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 30 avril 2013 - 08:41 .

[JamesFaith]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Problem is that "artistic integrity" is one of last big "weapons" against BW. It is hard for some people here accept true when they already lost " 16 endings" (mistake of IGN(?) who mischanged Witcher 2 with ME3 in short article) or  "don't be too attached to plot" (missimpreted and explained by Merizan).  Quote "bosses are to videogamey" still live as this thread proved few times, but some people already accepted true that it was just twisted quote about TIM's transformation.

But "fighting" with memes and stupid pictures is sooo much easier then real argumentation for some people.

And why don't you argue what that paragraph by Ray Muzyka I quoted is really saying? As far as I can tell, he

1) professes a strong belief that games are indeed art

2) says that he "supports the artistic choices" that the team made 

3) says that they are looking at how to modify the game insofar as is compatible with the "artistic integrity" of the game.

That is, he is explicitly saying that some changes to the ending would be unacceptable because that would be a violation of the artistic integrity of the work and those who made it. In other words, he is defending the ending by invoking the concept of artistic integrity.

I realize that some people prefer to "fight" actual demonstrations of proof of claims with blanket denial that frankly borders on the pathological. But you obviously like real argumentationa lot, so why don't you show the rest of us how it's done?

Because your "really" saying is just your own interpetation more based on what you want him to say then what he say?

There is difference between defence of creator's work and defence of right of creator. You obviously don't see this difference so discussion with you on this theme is futile. I already tried it once, other people too, but you still repeating same thing - I think that he said something different. 

[SpamBot2000]

JamesFaith wrote...

There is difference between defence of creator's work and defence of right of creator. You obviously don't see this difference so discussion with you on this theme is futile. I already tried it once, other people too, but you still repeating same thing - I think that he said something different. 

Hey, thanks for the evasion.

[Goneaviking]

KC_Prototype wrote...

I know Im a year late but it really bugs that Bioware didn't implement a final conclusion of the series with Commander Shepard personally defeating the leader of the reapers. It would of been right before going to the citadel but after the EC cut scene and everything. Shepard would of grabbed some heavy weapons and the fight would start and after about 5 hits with a cain, Harbinger shots a beam at Shepard before an epic explosion initiating the scene where Shepard is unconscious and then wakes up all beat up with burnt armor and then slowly moves towards the beam like he originally does, that's how the battle should of gone and tied into the ending scene. Why wasn't this in the game??

They did have a boss fight with Harbinger. It's just that it was so appropriately one sided no one bothered trying to kill the behemoth because that would've just been silly.

Remember how it took like three or four targeted hits from space fleet to break one of the smaller Reapers on Rannoch, at its weak point in the very short period of time it was vulnerable. Yeah, no way to justify that kind of firepower again while the fleet was being shredded in their own fight.

[AresKeith]

Reposting for good reason

You all do that know that "boss battle" doesn't always mean literally shooting at Harbinger right?

[Killdren88]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

He got the Saruman treatment.

No. Saruman got more screen time and was more involed in the plot. Harbinger got a footnote and a breif mention and a breif apperance at the end.

[tevix]

Because a lot of people didn't like harbinger so (despite there being just as many that did like him) reduced him to a footnote in ME3.

If you do a no import game, he essentially doesn't exist.

I expected harbinger to be neigh indestructable. I expcted to have to call in air support to distract him. I expected to get to see frigates and cruisers make in-atmosphere suicide runs at harbinger to force him to redirect his fire.

I expected to have at least one final conversation with him.

Nope. BW didn't understand the idea of a fluid storyline, and acted like he never existed, and served no purpose.