161 réponses à ce sujet

[Artifex_Imperius]

so i was going through the mass effect folder and found this. yep shep is alive! period!


so what others believing that shepard died at the end of destroy is complete BS. and if you believe shepard died at the end of destroy its just your head canon. and not writers canon, coz in writers canon at the end of destroy shep lives.

so in destroy ending shepard lives! and thats what the writers wrote period.

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 27 avril 2013 - 04:21 .

[FluffyCannibal]

Shepard takes one breath. S/he survived the Crucible, doesn't mean they made it out of the rubble alive. And you only get the breather scene with a high EMS.

[Kunari801]

It's up to your own head canon at that point. For me? Yes, Shepard survived

[Reorte]

So, as has been repeated many times, why not show something a bit more concrete and satifying than a breath? Also, anything in the game has to be supported by what's shown in the game - external interviews, filenames, datamining doesn't cut it.

Personally I take the view that it is supposed to be Shepard alive and saying that he goes on to live but just find it a really, really hopeless and unsatisfying way of demonstrating it.

[Lars Honeytoast]

It's only one breath because it would be an exponentially more insulting slap in the face if destroyers were to get any substantially longer scenes than the other endings.

[Remix-General Aetius]

and the fact that Kaidan doesn't put his nameplate on the memorial wall if your EMS is high enough. not that any of it matters anyway because there's no savegame for it.

[Iakus]

Lars Honeytoast wrote...

It's only one breath because it would be an exponentially more insulting slap in the face if destroyers were to get any substantially longer scenes than the other endings.

Yup.  That's Bioware's idea of "closure" 

Modifié par iakus, 27 avril 2013 - 05:59 .

[Eterna]

 If you look and listen reallly closey, you can hear and see Shepard take a breath!

[Mangalores]

It's the typical Hollywood breathe scene which implies he's alive.

Now the real art would have been to make the players get Shepard killed and be satisfied with it. And the issue is not that you can't do it but that you have to deliver an ending that it makes it the necessary conclusion. In reverse that'd make it necessary that beyond the abstract stakes (end of the galaxy) you need personal stakes (inevitable death of your LI and comrades) so you'd rather sacrifice your player character than "lose".

Yeah, I'm a bit mean to my characters. I just don't get the alive debate. Imo the only reason it's there because if faced with a bad unsatisfying ending you'd rather have a conventional unsurprising one.

[Ticonderoga117]

Mangalores wrote...

It's the typical Hollywood breathe scene which implies he's alive.

Now the real art would have been to make the players get Shepard killed and be satisfied with it. And the issue is not that you can't do it but that you have to deliver an ending that it makes it the necessary conclusion. In reverse that'd make it necessary that beyond the abstract stakes (end of the galaxy) you need personal stakes (inevitable death of your LI and comrades) so you'd rather sacrifice your player character than "lose".

Yeah, I'm a bit mean to my characters. I just don't get the alive debate. Imo the only reason it's there because if faced with a bad unsatisfying ending you'd rather have a conventional unsurprising one.

How would I be happy when Shepard committed suicide?

And generally breath scenes like that are... more complete. As in, they actually show the character is alive and gets out of the rubble. Or like this for sequels. However, since niether will happen, it's a complete slap in the face and a big "FU".

[ATiBotka]

tickle267 wrote...

it would be pretty pointless to have a scene showing that shepard survived only for him/her to die right after.

This.

Modifié par ATiBotka, 27 avril 2013 - 06:27 .

[Ticonderoga117]

tickle267 wrote...

it would be pretty pointless to have a scene showing that shepard survived only for him/her to die right after.

So why half ass the scene? Would it really have been that hard to have 5 more seconds of footage showing Shepard getting out?

[Mangalores]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
...

How would I be happy when Shepard committed suicide?

And generally breath scenes like that are... more complete. As in, they actually show the character is alive and gets out of the rubble. Or like this for sequels. However, since niether will happen, it's a complete slap in the face and a big "FU".

Stories are not about you being happy but being brought on a journey and be satisfied at their conclusion. Good storywriting makes you throw a book that kills a character into the corner but at the same time feel content that this character completed his arc the way it had to happen. That you know that their actions are so in tune with their character that you cannot let them survive without you essentially subverting them to be something else than what they are.

I'm of the opinion that stories should evoke emotions and they don't always have to be happy ones.  They just have to be satisfying. I wasn't happy about Tom Hank's character dieing in Saving Private Ryan but it would have diminished the character to go through all that and just walk away.


These breathe scenes are just a cheap cop out after someone tried to elicit precisely that emotion from you. It makes the end of a character's arc less meaningful. Either let a hero live or make him die but don't make him die to miraculously survive after the ending credits. It just means you as the stoywriter weren't earnest about this character's sacrifice.

[AlexMBrennan]

Firstly, the name of game files is a meta argument - it is not in the game, and thus not a valid argument much like Twitter posts, etc. CF death of the author.

Secondly, all the name implies is that Shepard is alive to take that breath i.e. that he is not killed by the initial explosion of the Citadel. That does not necessarily imply that he will survive much longer than that.

[Acute]

ATiBotka wrote...

tickle267 wrote...

it would be pretty pointless to have a scene showing that shepard survived only for him/her to die right after.

This.

I agree, no one would ever write that scene and then have them die afterward. What would be the point when you could just die anyway with any of the other choices or a lower EMS score? Aside from that, one of the first things I imagine anyone would do as soon as possible is fly up to the crucible and figure out what the heck just happened. And of course look for Shepard because she's Shepard. 

It would be a pretty ridiculous and pathetic death to survive that epic explosion, then die a few days later because no one ever comes to check on you. Or cares to do a quick lifescan of the citadel. 

Modifié par Katie Grimm, 27 avril 2013 - 08:30 .

[FluffyCannibal]

Reorte wrote...

So, as has been repeated many times, why not show something a bit more concrete and satifying than a breath? Also, anything in the game has to be supported by what's shown in the game - external interviews, filenames, datamining doesn't cut it.

Personally I take the view that it is supposed to be Shepard alive and saying that he goes on to live but just find it a really, really hopeless and unsatisfying way of demonstrating it.

Because there are people like you who would prefer a "happily ever after" scene, and there are people like me who are more content leaving it up to the imagination. Shepard recovering and marching off to fight another day would have been too much for me, its kinda like my views on Synthesis; its all butterflies and rainbows and unicorns and I just don't buy it. And its already been done - remember how ME1 ended? And it would look too much like BW setting ME3 up for a straight sequel.

In short, head canon.

[sveners]

FluffyCannibal wrote...

Reorte wrote...

So, as has been repeated many times, why not show something a bit more concrete and satifying than a breath? Also, anything in the game has to be supported by what's shown in the game - external interviews, filenames, datamining doesn't cut it.

Personally I take the view that it is supposed to be Shepard alive and saying that he goes on to live but just find it a really, really hopeless and unsatisfying way of demonstrating it.

Because there are people like you who would prefer a "happily ever after" scene, and there are people like me who are more content leaving it up to the imagination. Shepard recovering and marching off to fight another day would have been too much for me, its kinda like my views on Synthesis; its all butterflies and rainbows and unicorns and I just don't buy it. And its already been done - remember how ME1 ended? And it would look too much like BW setting ME3 up for a straight sequel.

In short, head canon.

So, out of "7" endings, 3 high ems. refuse and 3 low ems, there is one where Shepard is shown to take a breath. Expanding on that single scene would have insulted your desire to leave the rest to your imagination? If you wanted Shepard to die, then just don't gather all ems you can. He/She'll die in all of them.

Why would you want that scene unless you wanted Shepard to live?

Oh, and ME ended wonderfully.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

sveners wrote...

FluffyCannibal wrote...

Reorte wrote...

So, as has been repeated many times, why not show something a bit more concrete and satifying than a breath? Also, anything in the game has to be supported by what's shown in the game - external interviews, filenames, datamining doesn't cut it.

Personally I take the view that it is supposed to be Shepard alive and saying that he goes on to live but just find it a really, really hopeless and unsatisfying way of demonstrating it.

Because there are people like you who would prefer a "happily ever after" scene, and there are people like me who are more content leaving it up to the imagination. Shepard recovering and marching off to fight another day would have been too much for me, its kinda like my views on Synthesis; its all butterflies and rainbows and unicorns and I just don't buy it. And its already been done - remember how ME1 ended? And it would look too much like BW setting ME3 up for a straight sequel.

In short, head canon.

So, out of "7" endings, 3 high ems. refuse and 3 low ems, there is one where Shepard is shown to take a breath. Expanding on that single scene would have insulted your desire to leave the rest to your imagination? If you wanted Shepard to die, then just don't gather all ems you can. He/She'll die in all of them.

Why would you want that scene unless you wanted Shepard to live?

Oh, and ME ended wonderfully.

I think the scene should have been in a hospital with your LI standing over Shepard. You know it's Shepard because of the N7 Tag. Shepard takes a breath and you can see the LI put their hand on Shepard, then cut to black.

I disagree. I think the ending was terrible. I won't pretend my opinion is objective, but there it is.

[Hazegurl]

I don't need files to prove my Shep is alive. His friend's didn't leave him behind so he's relaxing in his badass apt with Kaidan burning up steaks.

[sveners]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

sveners wrote...

FluffyCannibal wrote...

Reorte wrote...

So, as has been repeated many times, why not show something a bit more concrete and satifying than a breath? Also, anything in the game has to be supported by what's shown in the game - external interviews, filenames, datamining doesn't cut it.

Personally I take the view that it is supposed to be Shepard alive and saying that he goes on to live but just find it a really, really hopeless and unsatisfying way of demonstrating it.

Because there are people like you who would prefer a "happily ever after" scene, and there are people like me who are more content leaving it up to the imagination. Shepard recovering and marching off to fight another day would have been too much for me, its kinda like my views on Synthesis; its all butterflies and rainbows and unicorns and I just don't buy it. And its already been done - remember how ME1 ended? And it would look too much like BW setting ME3 up for a straight sequel.

In short, head canon.

So, out of "7" endings, 3 high ems. refuse and 3 low ems, there is one where Shepard is shown to take a breath. Expanding on that single scene would have insulted your desire to leave the rest to your imagination? If you wanted Shepard to die, then just don't gather all ems you can. He/She'll die in all of them.

Why would you want that scene unless you wanted Shepard to live?

Oh, and ME ended wonderfully.

I think the scene should have been in a hospital with your LI standing over Shepard. You know it's Shepard because of the N7 Tag. Shepard takes a breath and you can see the LI put their hand on Shepard, then cut to black.

I disagree. I think the ending was terrible. I won't pretend my opinion is objective, but there it is.

Opinions are subjective, that's their nature ^^ Just like mine about ME's ending. There's just something about that silence before the music reaches it's crescendo, and Shepard jumps from the debris that gives me goosebumps.


Or... it used to.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

sveners wrote...

Opinions are subjective, that's their nature ^^ Just like mine about ME's ending. There's just something about that silence before the music reaches it's crescendo, and Shepard jumps from the debris that gives me goosebumps.


Or... it used to.

I think it's a total cop out and I can't help but roll my eyes.

[Gixxer6Rdr]

Movies do this all the time... the breath shows he's alive at that point obviously, and since they do not show/tell of him dying after that, it's safe to assume he lives under those circumstances. Of course you could argue, but that's an opinion, being as how we see and hear him breathe.

Often it's a bad-guy that does that type of 'reveal' in films, but it works for the hero too.

[Yestare7]

tickle267 wrote...

it would be pretty pointless to have a scene showing that shepard survived only for him/her to die right after.

yep