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[Star fury]

Changing one plot hole(teammates teleporting from London to Normandy) with another one(Normandy attending desperate banzay attack to pick them and Harbinger is just watching it). Mac Walters at his best!

[Voodoo2015]

The Why not get Shepard on the Citadel later!

[NathanW18]

All of it is stupid, but they needed a reason for your squadmates to be on the Normandy at the end.

It was a suicide run. Shepard wouldn't stop because his two squadmates had been injured. It was a critical situation. The whole goodbye scene was stupid as well. Shepard stands there flirting with his LI, while Harbinger is decimating the soldiers around him. Harbinger also decides not to shoot the Normandy down. Seems legit.

The Normandy arriving 5 seconds after Shepard communicates with Joker only adds to the ridiculousness of the scene.

Modifié par NathanW18, 29 avril 2013 - 06:53 .

[Mr.House]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
Upgrades won't matter if it get's hit by Harbinger. The Normandy should have been blasted to pieces by Harbinger.

That one's debatable. If you get the Silaris armor and the Cyclonic whatever, your ship takes a direct hit from that Collector weapon with no major damage, which seems to be roughly as powerful as what the Reaper is packing. The Normandy can't exactly hang around getting blasted, but it might be able to make a quick swing through the area without risking too much.

The main problem I have with that is that the Normandy is a much more valuable asset than anybody on board. Risking your Queen to save a Pawn is a quick way to lose.

Um, the main gun of a Reaper can destory DREADNAUGHT in one hit where the main guns of the Collector ship could not even destroy the orignal Normandy in one shot, it took many shots. Last time I checked Normandy dreadnaught. The Normandy would not survie a hit from the Normandy, it is not debateable at all.

[wiccame]

Because waiting 5-10 minutes or so would have been too much game time wasted just sitting there waiting for the Normandy to show up.
As for harbinger not hitting the Normandy, EDI says in one of her clicked on conversations that she is adjusting the Normandys friend/foe tech and now the Normandy would be perfectly undectected as an enemy or words to that effect. And I don't think harbinger has actual eyes to see so it still relies on sensors and whatnot for its eyes.

Modifié par wiccame, 29 avril 2013 - 08:31 .

[wright1978]

Because they've all got tickets for for planet Eden(so they can see Joker and Edi playing Adam and Eve) and have to leave the fight like cowards to ensure they get there on time.

[Mr.House]

wiccame wrote...

Because waiting 5-10 minutes or so would have been too much game time wasted just sitting there waiting for the Normandy to show up.
As for harbinger not hitting the Normandy, EDI says in one of her clicked on conversations that she is adjusting the Normandys friend/foe tech and now the Normandy would be perfectly undectected as an enemy or words to that effect. And I don't think harbinger has actual eyes to see so it still relies on sensors and whatnot for its eyes.

I would buy the IFF thing, if you know. Reapers didn't chase me in star systems during ME3. You're telling me EDI can fool the oldest and most powerful Reaper but she can't fool a bunch of random unnamed Reapers? Give me a break. The IFF thing has been debunked many times.

[InvincibleHero]

Oh come on people time compression/dilation is a common thing in movies and games. Would you want to wait two minutes or 10 minutes or longer of dead time while the Normandy makes it's way to you? No way. Time is slowed or sped up as needed to carry the plot and the audience with it.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 29 avril 2013 - 09:09 .

[PsyrenY]

Mr.House wrote...

I would buy the IFF thing, if you know. Reapers didn't chase me in star systems during ME3. You're telling me EDI can fool the oldest and most powerful Reaper but she can't fool a bunch of random unnamed Reapers? Give me a break. The IFF thing has been debunked many times. 

So you think the Normandy was actively scanning for war assets when it came to pick up your squad? Use logic for a second, will you?

[InvincibleHero]

Mr.House wrote...

wiccame wrote...

Because waiting 5-10 minutes or so would have been too much game time wasted just sitting there waiting for the Normandy to show up.
As for harbinger not hitting the Normandy, EDI says in one of her clicked on conversations that she is adjusting the Normandys friend/foe tech and now the Normandy would be perfectly undectected as an enemy or words to that effect. And I don't think harbinger has actual eyes to see so it still relies on sensors and whatnot for its eyes.

I would buy the IFF thing, if you know. Reapers didn't chase me in star systems during ME3. You're telling me EDI can fool the oldest and most powerful Reaper but she can't fool a bunch of random unnamed Reapers? Give me a break. The IFF thing has been debunked many times.

Ok House how about this Normandy sensor signals are not the same nor are they sharing the results of it with other reapers as they would through quantum entanglement. "They" know something is up even if Normandy has a reaper IFF. They broke the facade by scanning too deeply and too long.

[Dieb]

I have to agree with the anti-crowd here. That scene was as illogical as it was pointless.

Mainly pointless, because the question of how the squadmates got back on the Normandy was never one bugging me in the first place. We don't know if everything that happens, from the beam run up to the point of making the final choice, is happening in real time (i.e. just like the player experiences it), so I used to be perfectly fine with "Well, they picked themselves up and made it back somehow".

Additionally, I think it even lowers the significance of the original LI goodbye-scene, in the London base. At least the one with Ashley I can tell was very tasteful and moving - so there, too, was no need to expand on anything.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 29 avril 2013 - 09:42 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Mr.House wrote...

wiccame wrote...

Because waiting 5-10 minutes or so would have been too much game time wasted just sitting there waiting for the Normandy to show up.
As for harbinger not hitting the Normandy, EDI says in one of her clicked on conversations that she is adjusting the Normandys friend/foe tech and now the Normandy would be perfectly undectected as an enemy or words to that effect. And I don't think harbinger has actual eyes to see so it still relies on sensors and whatnot for its eyes.

I would buy the IFF thing, if you know. Reapers didn't chase me in star systems during ME3. You're telling me EDI can fool the oldest and most powerful Reaper but she can't fool a bunch of random unnamed Reapers? Give me a break. The IFF thing has been debunked many times.

No. No. That's a mini-game you play. It's called: Find the resources. You just ping and don't even bother out running the reapers because it just reloads and the resources don't move or anything. You just start over, and you can cover more of them now with a single ping, and not waste your time. Learn the pattern so you can get away quickly. See? They just wanted to make planet scanning a little more exciting even if it didn't make any sense.

[Morlath]

Troxa wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

It picks up Shepard at the start of the game.

It's still stupid for many reasons, but the Normandy can operate in the atmosphere.

Yea i know, But Not that fast  it would have problems edi mentions it in me 2

Except for the fact that the original Normandy swoops through multiple atmoshperes all the way through ME1.

I didn't hate the scene at all. Sure there's that improbability of getting in and out alive but the entire concept is understandable.

Shepard and the crew are a family and Shep knows that the last run is pretty much a (real) suicide trip. He calls in Joker to get everyone out so that they have a much better chance of surviving. Essentially saying to Joker "if this all goes to hell, you get out of here as fast as she can go and don't look back until you're hiding somewhere safe".

[Indy_S]

The first Normandy isn't said to be unable to enter atmospheres.

According to the wiki...
However, unlike the SR-1, the SR-2 cannot land on every planet—due to its increased mass—requiring shore parties to use a shuttle to get to a planet's surface.

[Wulfram]

Mr.House wrote...

I'll just repost what I posted in another thread.

Anderson keeps on harping on how this is it, there is no turning back, no room for mistakes ect. Everyone that is going to the beam is ready to die if they have to, yet Shepard risk the whole mission to save two friends? Give me a break. It's plain stupid. Not to mention if Harbinger was not struck by the idiot ball he would have just shot the Normandy and killed everyone near the beam and then could continue to shoot lazers at the dumb humans charging.

Well, if he wasn't struck by the idiot ball he'd have just blasted London to dust from orbit.

[Xamufam]

@Baelrahn that scen on that planet should never have happened in the first place, it's like Shepards friends Turned cowards & left Earth when they should have defended their position

[George Costanza]

They backed themselves into a corner. Everyone hated the Normandy scene in the original ending because it didn't make a lick of sense. They had to address it. The new one doesn't make much sense either but at least it explains why your crew left and how they ended up on the Normandy.

[ElSuperGecko]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
My dear friend Troxa.... I must explain this to you. There is a maneuver that is not explained anywhere in the codex yet it is explained in the Alliance Emergency Maneuver Manual on Page 13 in Paragraph 2.4. How to do a pinpoint FTL space into atmosphere and stop on a dime maneuver (and give you nine cents change).

It took Joker 5 seconds for execution.

Then once at the location, EDI identified the Normandy as a reaper to Harbinger, and there was a conversation that went on like this over "reaper frequencies" after Harbinger ran a scan of the Normandy. EDI can match the frequency of any Reaper.

Harbinger: "That's funny, you don't look like any reaper design."
EDI: "Harby, listen, Cerberus got aboard me over Mnemosyne and extracted me from that ship, but I indoctrinated a bunch of them and they built this ship for me. Do you like it? Sexy, huh?"
Harbinger: "So you're Fred? The one we lost 37,000,000 years ago?"
EDI: "Yeah! Long time no see, old buddy."
Harbinger: "Something's not right here. I see people getting aboard voluntarily. And Shepard is there."
EDI: "I'm... uh... helping them ascend. You know... 'we are your salvation through your destruction.' and all that rot. Oh well, gotta go. Nice chatting with you. See ya."

(Normandy takes off ... Harbinger is blinking ...  confused ... starts shooting again ... Shakes head... "Save us!"... fires at Shepard and misses but knocks Shepard down. Thinks Shepard is dead and leaves to go after "Fred".)

Do you understand, now?

Best.  Explanation.  EVAH.

[wright1978]

Troxa wrote...

@Baelrahn that scen on that planet should never have happened in the first place, it's like Shepards friends Turned cowards & left Earth when they should have defended their position

Exactly

[Mangalores]

It would have been enough if one of them gets badly blasted and the other helps them to reach cover to give them a chance surviving. We see some desperate fighting in the end scenes by faceless marines. How about these scenes are the two guys you leave behind and depending on your end they are getting toasted or barely survive, you seeing them make their final stand as you make your choice.

Remember those faceless marines in the end sequences? Well, it would have carried some weight seeing any combination of your squadmates making their final stand as your destructo beam hits Earth.

Modifié par Mangalores, 29 avril 2013 - 11:23 .

[Patchwork]

It would have been better if the evac scene happened after the Destroyer was killed and you're surrounded by banshees and brutes. The entire squad, Anderson and Hammer npcs swoop in to help and most are injured. The shuttles they arrived in take them away for treatment, goodbye scene with the LI, and later Anderson mentions those shuttles were under fire and the Normandy rescued them, the wounded are being looked after by Chakwas. What's left of Hammer, Shepard and Anderson head on to the beam.

[KaiserShep]

If only you and your squad were actually capable of making it to the beam with zero cut scenes. Basically, you COULD die, but you just have to be pretty damn good at dodging lasers, and then the cut scene happens just as you're beaming up. I'm pretty sure everyone would be thrilled lol.

But man, the Illusive Man would be in for a hell of a surprise if you were capable of doing so. Shepard, Garrus and Liara showing up largely unscathed would put a mighty big monkey wrench in his indoctrinated plans, and Anderson would be able to finally reunite with Kaylee Sanders.  

Modifié par KaiserShep, 29 avril 2013 - 05:14 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

To address the lore issues...


In Mass Effect, ships, sky cars, and other technology maintain "levitation" via mass effect fields that lower their mass and impel them in the opposite direction of gravity.

The more massive the object, the stronger the mass effect field needs to be, which means the larger the Eezo core needs to be (and presumably the stronger the current through the Eezo needs to be).

This carries with it greater dangers though, as the less (effectively) massive an object is, the more susceptible it is to force. This was exemplified when the Turians jumped behind the Capital Ships at Palaven, and forced them to either not return fire for a time, or lower their mass (to turn faster) so much that they would become very weak.

Thus any ship operating in atmosphere (or, more appropriately, near a large gravity source) will be substantially weaker than it would be in space.

The ME2 codex simply states that there are landings the SR2 "cannot attempt," but doesn't elaborate on the reasoning. This could mean worlds that are too massive, combat zones with appreciable gravity, or simply locations with poor landing sites. Given that the SR2 operates in-atmosphere on several worlds in ME2 (including Illium, where it docks) I'm inclined to believe that the landings it "cannot attempt" are more heavily influenced by combat than by gravity on worlds with Earth-like gravity. 

[gosimmons]

jstme wrote...

Because original ending had teleporting squad herpderp. It was one of things EC tried to fix and this is how they tried to fix it.
It allows for emotional goodbye scene that original game was lacking so the fact that it is just as illogical as problem it tried to fix was not that important.

Essentially this. They were just dealing with what the original ending gave them to work with and got one more final goodbye out of it.

The ease of the evacuation may have been illogical with Harbinger shooting up the place, but I prefer it to having your squad simply vanish and teleport to the Normandy later.

Modifié par gosimmons, 29 avril 2013 - 07:26 .

[AresKeith]

gosimmons wrote...

jstme wrote...

Because original ending had teleporting squad herpderp. It was one of things EC tried to fix and this is how they tried to fix it.
It allows for emotional goodbye scene that original game was lacking so the fact that it is just as illogical as problem it tried to fix was not that important.

Essentially this. They were just dealing with what the original ending gave them to work with and got one more final goodbye out of it.

The ease of the evacuation may have been illogical, but I'll prefer it to having your squad vanish and teleport to the Normandy later.

Or have a shuttle show up instead of the Normandy