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#126
crimzontearz

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AlanC9 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Alan you are not helping their case really, merely reinforcing that for them (ea) potential revenue from microtransaction warrants more resources than a quality single player experience


That's a misreading. EA doesn't care where the profits come from as long as they're there. MP, like DLC, is in because it's more profitable than the SP game. ME3 without those profits has to be more profitable, not less. That would have meant even more cut corners.

It's pretty to think that we live in a universe where EA wouldn't care about projected revenue and would just throw money at ME3 because they felt like it. But I prefer to talk about things that could actually happen.

on the contrary, they do care where the revenue comes from, in fact they would rather see the revenue come from microtransactions that keep coming through constant weapon updates and such rather than from, say, a core game that sells a lot because it was given proper budget and development time ESPECIALLY if such game is nearly guaranteed to sell standing on the shoulders of its predecessors. Virtually every choice made by EA for ME3 conforms to this model and modus pensandi because it costs less money and potentially brings in more revenue (while making quality suffer)


 
It is the same for every EA owned studio

Modifié par crimzontearz, 02 mai 2013 - 05:55 .


#127
AlanC9

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crimzontearz wrote...

on the contrary, they do care where the revenue comes from, in fact they would rather see the revenue come from microtransactions that keep coming through constant weapon updates and such rather than from, say, a core game that sells a lot because it was given proper budget and development time ESPECIALLY if such game is nearly guaranteed to sell standing on the shoulders of its predecessors. Virtually every choice made by EA for ME3 conforms to this model and modus pensandi because it costs less money and potentially brings in more revenue (while making quality suffer)


Wait... ME3 is guaranteed to sell well, but more development time would have helped it sell more well? On what evidence?

Let's assume that's right, anyway. How does that make a case for not doing MP? If more resources into both MP and SP would be profitable, why not pursue both strategies simultaneously?

FWIW, "modus pensandi" is not used in colloquial English, though for some reason "modus operandi" is.

#128
SpamBot2000

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AlanC9 wrote...

So there's no fourth game? There's never an open war?


INH56 seems to have answered this one while I was gone. Nothing much to add to that.

#129
crimzontearz

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AlanC9 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

on the contrary, they do care where the revenue comes from, in fact they would rather see the revenue come from microtransactions that keep coming through constant weapon updates and such rather than from, say, a core game that sells a lot because it was given proper budget and development time ESPECIALLY if such game is nearly guaranteed to sell standing on the shoulders of its predecessors. Virtually every choice made by EA for ME3 conforms to this model and modus pensandi because it costs less money and potentially brings in more revenue (while making quality suffer)


Wait... ME3 is guaranteed to sell well, but more development time would have helped it sell more well? On what evidence?

Let's assume that's right, anyway. How does that make a case for not doing MP? If more resources into both MP and SP would be profitable, why not pursue both strategies simultaneously?

FWIW, "modus pensandi" is not used in colloquial English, though for some reason "modus operandi" is.

well one means "way to act" and the other "way to think"


 
Anyways, no, you are misunderstanding. EA bought Bioware midway through ME2, ME1 sold well, ME2 sold well on 2 platforms, ME3 had an established installed base to rely on thus its sales were almost a know quantity. Makes sense from EA's perspective to rush ME3 and not care much about the SP quality (because the previous fanbase who got hooked to
ME will buy it regardless for its SP almost closed box no question asked) and the new target audience will play MP Aand spend money in microtransactions....add in that the people emotionally invested HAD to play MP to allow their Shepard to survive and you have a lovely picture of it. EA would ratherake money by rushing games out and nikle and dime people rather than committ to quality and you know it, it is the case for so many games they publish that it's not even funny 

#130
AlanC9

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That argument might make a kind of sense if ME3 had been cheaper than ME1 or ME2.

#131
crimzontearz

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AlanC9 wrote...

That argument might make a kind of sense if ME3 had been cheaper than ME1 or ME2.

but it was released on 4 platforms as well.


 
Also "more expensive" does not equal "enough resources were allocated ($$+time+manpower) to afford proper quality given the project's scope"

#132
AlanC9

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crimzontearz wrote...

but it was released on 4 platforms as well.


WII U seems to have been a bust, and in any event that port came around too late to be a factor in ME3's planning. But yeah, PS3 would probably have been a planning factor.

Also "more expensive" does not equal "enough resources were allocated ($$+time+manpower) to afford proper quality given the project's scope"


Possibly true. Perhaps the project scope itself was a bad idea.

Modifié par AlanC9, 02 mai 2013 - 08:30 .


#133
Bleachrude

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Crimzontearz is working on a flawed assumption...the assumption that BW thought MP would be as big a success as it was...

From interacting with the developers on the MP forum, you can tell that they never really thought MP would be such a success that microtransactions could provide the revenue for 5 expansions. There are elements that they admitted they wouldn't have done in the 1st place if they knew how long the MP was going to last....

The MP for ME3 was supposed to be a small feature that would set the ground stage for a full blown co-op games (currently, it's just 1 mode....that's textbook "experiment")

There's also the fact that even before the patch that lowered the EMS threshold, you only had to play 3-4 silver games right before you talk to star kid...it's not like you had to constantly play the MP

Modifié par Bleachrude, 02 mai 2013 - 08:35 .


#134
Redbelle

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I wonder how MP developed over time..... I mean, I know how it developed. I was there when the patches came out and new content was added.

But thing's like the hazard maps. The extra objectives after surviving X number of waves on top of the exisitng objective's. Going platnum as the highest difficulty instead of gold. I read about those in the forum as idea's to make the MP more challenging than the vanilla MP we got at launch.

Does anyone know if any developer spoke of how those innovation's came about?

Modifié par Redbelle, 03 mai 2013 - 08:51 .


#135
crimzontearz

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Bleachrude wrote...

Crimzontearz is working on a flawed assumption...the assumption that BW thought MP would be as big a success as it was...

From interacting with the developers on the MP forum, you can tell that they never really thought MP would be such a success that microtransactions could provide the revenue for 5 expansions. There are elements that they admitted they wouldn't have done in the 1st place if they knew how long the MP was going to last....

The MP for ME3 was supposed to be a small feature that would set the ground stage for a full blown co-op games (currently, it's just 1 mode....that's textbook "experiment")

There's also the fact that even before the patch that lowered the EMS threshold, you only had to play 3-4 silver games right before you talk to star kid...it's not like you had to constantly play the MP


That does not contradict any of my statements tho


 
Sure MP was a success and as a separately funded mode I am 100% behind it, but not like it was in ME3, not while the vanilla game sat there unpolished and unfinished

#136
Bleachrude

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crimzontearz wrote...

 
Sure MP was a success and as a separately funded mode I am 100% behind it, but not like it was in ME3, not while the vanilla game sat there unpolished and unfinished


You know...I don't think this will ever happen...I'm almost 100% positive that the next ME game WILL ship with co-op. It's going to have a SP experience of course  but I don't see EA actually making two separate games since you don't have to spend advertising twice....

The microtransaction model means they WANT to get the game in as many hands as possible and by separating it, you lose potentially a good number of fans ..myself for example, I'd never would've bought a MP-only ME and reading the forums, I think there's a fair number of people who were like me..skeptical at best.

The next Mass effect will ship with a SP game AND a co-op mode/game as well...I'm actually blanking on any franchise that spinned off an entire co-op mode from their main game...excluding MMOs of course.

#137
crimzontearz

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Separately funded & developed ≠ separately sold

Look at Halo for instance.

And if that is the case I will probably stick with CDPR next generation unless BiowEAre sobers up

#138
Archonsg

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How long do you think before EA or someone else comes and "give" you a game free via Origins of course, a SP RPG microtransactions game?

Make it MEU quality in story / game play but, if you want more guns / armor you buy them.
You want more / different companions fully fleshed with their own story and quest and AI personality, you buy them.

Or, endings.
The game will come with one ending. Alternate endings purchasable.

Seriously, if you don't see this coming ....:whistle:

Modifié par Archonsg, 03 mai 2013 - 01:44 .


#139
crimzontearz

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Aaaand that is sadly where I see all if this going. Thank god CDPR is coming out with a Sci-fi RPG too

#140
Bleachrude

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crimzontearz wrote...

Separately funded & developed ≠ separately sold

Look at Halo for instance.

And if that is the case I will probably stick with CDPR next generation unless BiowEAre sobers up


Er, but ME3 MP WAS separately funded and developed...the ME MP team was in Montreal and the ME SP team is in the original Vancouver studios...

CDPR's sci-fi looks like it is a blade runner/deus ex type sci-fi...definitely NOT space opera.

#141
Archonsg

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Actually, if it is reasonably priced, I do not mind a microtransactions based SP RPG. Considering that I am already spending roughly $50 to about $150 per game (collector's edition + DLCs inclusive) though averaging around $90 (base game + DLC pass) it might not be such a bad idea.

Well bad if you are a completionist, (like me) but it might work out better and even cheaper for those who prefer a more "customized" game to thier liking.

Say base game for $15.00, companions, weapon and armor packs at $9.90 and it'll come to about what we are *already* paying.

#142
crimzontearz

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Bleachrude wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Separately funded & developed ≠ separately sold

Look at Halo for instance.

And if that is the case I will probably stick with CDPR next generation unless BiowEAre sobers up


Er, but ME3 MP WAS separately funded and developed...the ME MP team was in Montreal and the ME SP team is in the original Vancouver studios...

CDPR's sci-fi looks like it is a blade runner/deus ex type sci-fi...definitely NOT space opera.

yes I was not arguing that I was arguing that the vanilla game already needed more resources (time money and manpower) and other resources were allocated to MP rather than finishing off the main game properly (I know different teams worked on MP and SP

And yes they are doing Cyberpunk 2077....but I would rather have that than "Mass Effect Space Opera Art as envisioned by Mac Walters with EA business model"

#143
crimzontearz

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Archonsg wrote...

Actually, if it is reasonably priced, I do not mind a microtransactions based SP RPG. Considering that I am already spending roughly $50 to about $150 per game (collector's edition + DLCs inclusive) though averaging around $90 (base game + DLC pass) it might not be such a bad idea.

Well bad if you are a completionist, (like me) but it might work out better and even cheaper for those who prefer a more "customized" game to thier liking.

Say base game for $15.00, companions, weapon and armor packs at $9.90 and it'll come to about what we are *already* paying.

a FF fame tried that....did not end well

#144
Archonsg

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@crimsontearz

If there is a company worse than EA in terms of money grabbing, its SOE. Planetside 2 for example sells you guns that *are NOT account wide* at more than $10.00 a pop.

I would not mind microtransactions as long as the items they sell *are optional and are not deemed necessary to the game.

Additional companions, more quests especially if they are post ending, more armor / gun options are okies with me.

For example, if they made a Bisexual version of Traynor or better yet made her a tech specialist squad-mate with her own quest line, I'd be willing to bet she'd sell well.

#145
crimzontearz

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Archonsg wrote...

@crimsontearz

If there is a company worse than EA in terms of money grabbing, its SOE. Planetside 2 for example sells you guns that *are NOT account wide* at more than $10.00 a pop.

I would not mind microtransactions as long as the items they sell *are optional and are not deemed necessary to the game.

Additional companions, more quests especially if they are post ending, more armor / gun options are okies with me.

For example, if they made a Bisexual version of Traynor or better yet made her a tech specialist squad-mate with her own quest line, I'd be willing to bet she'd sell well.



 
Deemed necessary....by whom?


 
Because adding an afterthought as a dlc (like unrelized guns ideas and stuff) is ok by me but giving me an RPG with barely any customization because I have to pay for the rest is bull****
but the COD shooter crowd would not mind...

 
Oh and of course....want NG+? gotta pay for that too right? It is not necessary by someone's standards.... yeah no thanks

Modifié par crimzontearz, 03 mai 2013 - 03:49 .


#146
Archonsg

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@crimsontearz

Not necessary as in totally optional stuff.
For example, if 6 months after Omega was released and they held a kickstarter styled optional DLC for you to save Nyreen and have her as a squad mate, is that wrong?

It is *optional*.

Or turn Traynor from Lesbian to Bisexual, alternate ending content, bring in Miranda as squad mate with her own line of quest. Ditto for Jack and her biotic babies.

The thing is, we are all going to pay for content. Just how much and how often is the issue.

#147
NeonFlux117

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Lots of things went wrong. Lots.

But I'd say that the leaked script and the departure of Karpyshyn impacted the narrative a lot.

But actual design choices like streamlined dialogue wheel, zero side quests, 1 hub world, zero ME2 squadmates..... Yeah, I don't get that, cause ME2 improved on all those things from ME1. There are 19 N7 missions in ME2, there were 10 in ME1, there are 12 squadmates in ME2 and 1/3 or ME1 returning squadmates-Garrus and Tali Plus a full DLC with Liara. See where I'm going with this. The only thing ME2 did was reduce and streamline weapon and armor modification- this was added in ME3. But that's the only thing that was added.

I thought the MP would impact the SP. But to my surprise the MP part of ME3 is fantastic and I would have liked to have even more maps and modes.

So it wasn't the MP that impacted the SP, it had to be design choices implemented by the creative director and lead writers of the game. I blame them. Hudson, Gamble, and their minions.

#148
Iakus

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

 There are 19 N7 missions in ME2, there were 10 in ME1
 


There actually weren't any N7 missions in ME1.  Are you comparing ME2 N7 missions with ME1 UNC missions?  
Because there's thirty two of those, plus the paragon/renegade ones

#149
NeonFlux117

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iakus wrote...

NeonFlux117 wrote...

 There are 19 N7 missions in ME2, there were 10 in ME1
 


There actually weren't any N7 missions in ME1.  Are you comparing ME2 N7 missions with ME1 UNC missions?  
Because there's thirty two of those, plus the paragon/renegade ones



well, I think we can agree that ME3 had zero side quests lol, it had what I think 7 N7 missions and fetch quests=Lame. 

#150
dreamgazer

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NeonFlux117 wrote...

well, I think we can agree that ME3 had zero side quests


We can?