60 réponses à ce sujet

[emanziboy]

ITT: No one who has ever taken a STAT course. Ever.

[Han Shot First]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

No it wouldn't.

And you base that on what exactly?

The tone of the discussion of the original endings was negative, no matter where you looked online or offline. Outside of a few critical reviews, there was no place where the majority of people were saying, "Wow, what an amazing ending!"

Contrast that to the reaction to Mass Effect 2. There were some people who hated that game just as much people hated the endings to Mass Effect 3. The difference however is that the tone of the discussion both online & offline was overwhelmingly positive. For every person who pronounced ME2 the death of the series and/or Bioware, there were more who were crowing about what an amazing game it was. With ME3 the reverse was true.

And I think Bioware realizes that, whether or not Mac does or admits to it. If they didn't, we wouldn't have seen the Extended Cut. Why create DLC that alters the endings (and they do, despite what the more hardcore anti-enders allege) if the people who disliked those endings, are only a small minority? Why not just ignore them, like the people who hated Mass Effect 2 were ignored?

[chemiclord]

Han Shot First wrote...

He's right. Bioware's own numbers are a billion times more reliable than your silly forum polls.

How could Bioware determine whether or not an ending was liked? Their numbers are certainly accurate in regards to how many people finished the game, or the ratio of Male Sheps to Fem Sheps, or the percentage of players that picked certain classes, ect. But there is no way to determine whether or not players liked the endings from that data.

If Bioware conducted a poll on fan reaction to the endings, I have neither seen the poll itself or the results.

If Bioware had conducted a survey prior to the EC the feedback would certainly have been overwhelmingly negative.

What the Bioware numbers told me were:

1) The BSN is not a good sample size for the fanbase at large.  For example, from Bioware's presented metrics, Liara is highly favored... but she is largely despised here in the BSN.  Another one is the Wrex survived percentage (something close to 65% of playthroughs never meet him).  Which ties into...

2) A very significant % of the players of ME3 seem to be "new" to the series.  It's not unusual for games as a rule, but it's a bit jarring for "hardcore fans" who have followed the story from the beginning.  "New" players likely aren't going to have the same level of emotional investment.  The ending isn't going to "hurt" them quite as profoundly.

So yeah, I don't think Walters is incorrect.  "Hate" is a very strong word... and I DO believe those who have such a significant level of negative emotion IS a "loud minority."  That is not saying that it is good or that a majority like it though... and any attempt to try and spin that meaning into Walters words is again the work of people TRYING to find reason to be insulted and make Bioware an enemy they can justify their rage towards.

Modifié par chemiclord, 28 avril 2013 - 04:49 .

[Fixers0]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

You first.

I haven't made any claim, you did.

Modifié par Fixers0, 28 avril 2013 - 04:49 .

[emanziboy]

Han Shot First wrote...

If Bioware conducted a poll on fan reaction to the endings, I have neither seen the poll itself or the results.

If Bioware had conducted a survey prior to the EC the feedback would certainly have been overwhelmingly negative.

The fact that poll wasn't open to the public just means that the people running it know what they're doing. Voluntary response bias makes any open online poll skewed and unreliable from a statistical point of view.

Modifié par emanziboy, 28 avril 2013 - 04:58 .

[Clayless]

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

The fact this douche is back for Mass Effect 4 makes it even worse.

Pretty sure there's some rules against this.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Yea, I reported him.

[arial]

1) where do you get 90%?

2) IT DOES NOT MATTER!!
an argument can not be won by simply saying "I am with the majority" "Majority agrees with me" "your part of the minority".
An argument can only be won through its own merit, not by how many people take a given side.

Modifié par arial, 28 avril 2013 - 05:04 .

[Dubozz]

You sold 4.6M copies of your game(me3) over all platforms.(if you ask me its huge success)
More then 1m watched Mass Effect 3 ending and why we hate it! video
More then 1m watched 10 reasons why we hate mass effect ending video
More then 450k wathed Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage video (it's like 40 minutes video)
More then 1.2m watched Mass Effect 3 - Shepard's Indoctrination (because they just want your ending to become unreal.)
How many of you guys usually want to go to the internet and watch a 40 minutes video about how bad video game ending is? What about silent gamers? i know a lot of them. i'm sure you do as well.

Considering roughtly 42% of the people started the ME3 finished the game, i would say reception of the ending was VERY bad('controversial' is our case = we ****ed up but we have no other word for this). Now tell me one thing: Who will buy DLCs if ending sucks and setting is litteraly ruined? JonnyNewPlayerNeverFinishedTheActualGame or fans, who would buy dlcs, but they finished the game and hate the ending? No one. What can we do? Let's salvage the ending! How? Let's remove plotholes guys, more choices! What? Choices? Didn't you say "***k choices, Diana Allers is bettah" a while ago? Oh come on! I mean slides! usual slides in .bik (to feel big lol)! Oh ok. A few more dialogue lines here and there, some goodbye scenes. What about the catalyst? What about it? They want him removed. WHAT! NO! IT'S MY ARTISTC VISION! Ok ok man chill out, we have no time for this anyway,the next DLC is on the way, we should make this extended cut fast. Also if catalyst stays we should explain him a bit more in Leviathan. Why? No one understand your space magic stuff. IT'S NOT SPACE MAGIC IT'S ART! Err..ok. Let's get back to Extended cut. How about Rachni? No. ME2 squadmates, fans want them. No. Suicide mission? War assets in action? It would be awesome! **** this. Just slides and plotholes, a few cgi, also remove this line about "relays will be destroyed...bla bla' i was not in myself when i wrote this. Not surprising. WHAT? Nothing!..nothing. Ok i think we can make this in time. Last thing...I don't think it will be enough. What? We will explain everything but ending will still suck. It's not a secret and you know this. OK OK What are you suggesting? Let's make DLC that is not ending related. What? why? Everything that touch the ending is doomed. That is the **itypower of the ending. We can't avoid this. Well..ok, than lets put a lot of romance content in it and jokes, it will be almost a year from now right? Yes. I don't think there still will be a **itstorm about the ending after a year. Don't underestimate your creation, also what should we say to the fans. Nothing. What? Our PR manager told me to say nothing. Are you sure? Yes, I think she is a professional. How did you know this? She looks beatiful in cosplay costume. Right. Well ok, do you think it will be enogh. Nope, call Doctors.

Jokes aside guys we have 3 DLCs that tried to salvage the enging or the whole franchise. Bioware can't say to us "sorry, we screwed up in the end" but they tried to make thing right(sometimes in a strange ways). Minority is a funny term when you look at what have they done in a last year for this minority, and ofcoure it's just PR. (cos if nobody saw the numbers you may say whatever you want) Also i think today Mac is one of the most expirienced ending writers, because you either take the feedback to your heart or go full denial. I'm sure he is a professionsl enough and made a right choice long ago. Too bad it wasn't early enough.

Modifié par Dubozz, 28 avril 2013 - 05:08 .

[Han Shot First]

chemiclord wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

He's right. Bioware's own numbers are a billion times more reliable than your silly forum polls.

How could Bioware determine whether or not an ending was liked? Their numbers are certainly accurate in regards to how many people finished the game, or the ratio of Male Sheps to Fem Sheps, or the percentage of players that picked certain classes, ect. But there is no way to determine whether or not players liked the endings from that data.

If Bioware conducted a poll on fan reaction to the endings, I have neither seen the poll itself or the results.

If Bioware had conducted a survey prior to the EC the feedback would certainly have been overwhelmingly negative.

What the Bioware numbers told me were:

1) The BSN is not a good sample size for the fanbase at large.  For example, from Bioware's presented metrics, Liara is highly favored... but she is largely despised here in the BSN.  Another one is the Wrex survived percentage (something close to 65% of playthroughs never meet him).  Which ties into...

2) A very significant % of the players of ME3 seem to be "new" to the series.  It's not unusual for games as a rule, but it's a bit jarring for "hardcore fans" who have followed the story from the beginning.  "New" players likely aren't going to have the same level of emotional investment.  The ending isn't going to "hurt" them quite as profoundly.

So yeah, I don't think Walters is incorrect.  "Hate" is a very strong word... and I DO believe those who have such a significant level of negative emotion IS a "loud minority."  That is not saying that it is good or that a majority like it though... and any attempt to try and spin that meaning into Walters words is again the work of people TRYING to find reason to be insulted and make Bioware an enemy they can justify their rage towards.

Not to veer off topic, but I think that bolded bit is incorrect. Liara always finishes high on favorite character polls on the BSN with a decent sample size. The top 3 are nearly always Garrus, Liara, and Tali, with only the order of those three occasionally changing from poll to poll. Back when the character fan forum were still active, the Liara thread was also one of the more active of the bunch. So while there are certainly some posters on the BSN who passionately hate Liara, they are no where close to being a majority.

But I get your basic point that the BSN isn't necessarily representative of the fanbase as a whole, and on that I agree.

If Walters stated that he thought the people who hated the endings to ME3 were a minority, I would probably agree. I think most peoples' reaction to the endings, whether they liked or hated them, was to move on to the next game. Those that hated the endings to the degree that they got wrapped up in the whole 'retake' movement were certainly a vocal minority.

The problem is that Walters is described as saying that, "he doesn’t think the majority of Mass Effect fans had an issue with Mass Effect 3′s ending and that it was just a very vocal minority." If he used the phrase 'had an issue' instead of the word 'hated,' it implies that people who did not like the endings were a minority. It is one thing to say that retakers were a minority, quite another to say that all people who had issues with the endings were a minority.

[RaenImrahl]

Sorry, but this discussion about faux statistical analysis is veering off topic. Time to lock this down.