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[Silfren]

EntropicAngel wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

It's also extremely disgusting for you to want him to violate his Templar duty and love a mage (if DA:O is any indication, this is not allowed), especially after being tortured by mages that he thought he could trust.  If your character is a blood mage, it will almost reek of battered wife syndrome.

Frankly it sickens me.

I have no idea about Silfren, but this is something I actually see a lot: people wanting to change a character that has stances they do not like, and they disguise that through romance.

Again, not talking about Silfren, but I've seen that sentiment here.

ROFL.  I wasn't talking about that at all.  I'm not even sure how that could be interpeted from my comments.  I was pretty clearly talking about the narrative drama of a man falling in love with a person he's not supposed to have.  My interest has nothing whatosever to do with changing a character and everything to do with the dramatic conflict. 

I can't be the only one who appreciates Dragon Age first and foremost for its story, surely.

[sandalisthemaker]

AresKeith wrote...

Have you even romanced Isabela OP?

No.
Have you even read my OP?

[Kenshen]

Or just drop these stupid romances for more story content.

[robertthebard]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Have you even romanced Isabela OP?

No.
Have you even read my OP?

I read it, and here's my rough interpretation:

I hate women, so don't make a female LI because if you do, it will be considered the "main LI"(even if you can play the entire game w/out ever picking the character up) and I won't like it.  Seems harsh, but that's how it came across to me.  Whether that's what you meant to say or not.

[sandalisthemaker]

robertthebard wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Have you even romanced Isabela OP?

No.
Have you even read my OP?

I read it, and here's my rough interpretation:

I hate women, so don't make a female LI because if you do, it will be considered the "main LI"(even if you can play the entire game w/out ever picking the character up) and I won't like it.  Seems harsh, but that's how it came across to me.  Whether that's what you meant to say or not.

Um...yeah...
No.
Try again.

[Silfren]

robertthebard wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Have you even romanced Isabela OP?

No.
Have you even read my OP?

I read it, and here's my rough interpretation:

I hate women, so don't make a female LI because if you do, it will be considered the "main LI"(even if you can play the entire game w/out ever picking the character up) and I won't like it.  Seems harsh, but that's how it came across to me.  Whether that's what you meant to say or not.

.....

Honest question:  How in the hell did you get "i hate women," from the OP?  I didn't get that vibe the first time I read it, and on going back to re-read it again after your comment, I can't begin to figure where you're getting that interpretation. I actually find it very doubtful you DID read it.

[robertthebard]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

...Petty, selfish, cruel, and/or evil.
We already got that with Morrigan and again with Isabela.
I would like to try out all of the romances in DA, but found that I just could not go through with it in regards to those two.
The reason being, I usually play relatively nice characters, and the fact that both of them generally find good, upstanding behavior to be repugnant causes me to find *them* repugnant.
For DA3 I would like to see a good, morally upstanding LI like Aveline (Some of my characters flirted with her like mad, lol).
If Cassandra is an LI, I think she would fit this role nicely, except with a bit of an edge to her (but not like Morrigan or Isabela).

Edit:
For the record, I don't think we should even have a main LI.
This really only applies if we do get another main female LI.

[sandalisthemaker]

At least humor me with some sort of coherent explanation of your claims.

[robertthebard]

Ah, I see the problem, my brain was working faster than my fingers, and half my thought got left out of my post, so, to clarify:

It should have read, hate women that can think for themselves etc etc.

You see, that's what I see as your biggest issue. Isabela isn't all that petty, selfish or cruel, and she's certainly not evil. Morrigan probably fits the bill. However, since neither of them are the "main LI", as was pointed out, even by myself, it only leaves me with one conclusion: OMG, I don't like women that think for themselves. Frankly, I prefer that they do, and we could use a lot more romances like Isabela's, where you let appearance dictate how you try to deal with it, only to find out that judging a book by it's cover is bad. There is a hell of a lot more to the character than you give her credit for.

[sandalisthemaker]

robertthebard wrote...

Ah, I see the problem, my brain was working faster than my fingers, and half my thought got left out of my post, so, to clarify:

It should have read, hate women that can think for themselves etc etc.

You see, that's what I see as your biggest issue. Isabela isn't all that petty, selfish or cruel, and she's certainly not evil. Morrigan probably fits the bill. However, since neither of them are the "main LI", as was pointed out, even by myself, it only leaves me with one conclusion: OMG, I don't like women that think for themselves. Frankly, I prefer that they do, and we could use a lot more romances like Isabela's, where you let appearance dictate how you try to deal with it, only to find out that judging a book by it's cover is bad. There is a hell of a lot more to the character than you give her credit for.

I'm trying to make sense of your post because it's kind of all over the place. 
Note the and/or in my OP. 
Isabela is most certainly selfish. The cruel/evil applies to Morrigan.
The pettiness applies to both.
These are major facets of their personalities that do not change at all...unless you romance them. You do not see a different side to either of them otherwise. That's the problem I had. Pretty much all of their character development depends on you romancing them. I could not bring myself to romance them because they are opposed to good, unselfish behavior by the PC. They call you out on it and even mock you for it. That is a fact.
Just because I don't like Isabela or Morrigan, that means I don't like women in general? 
What kind of logic is that?
As far as the whole "women who don't think for themselves," I don't even know where you pulled that out of , so I'm not even going to try.

[EdwinLi]

I see some people want Cullen to be a LI but wasn't Cullen supposed to go insane and kill three you mages then go on a psychopathic killing spree of mages and then get sent to the loony bin sometime after DA:O for siding with Mages in origins?

I'm still waiting for them to explain how he became Knight-Captain after having that ending in Origins for DA2.

Modifié par EdwinLi, 30 avril 2013 - 05:42 .

[Fredward]

Stop pretending that two games form a pattern people. Just like... stahp. And Isabela and Morrigan aren't the same people at all. Also personally I'd rather have a ****y character than a bland, quotidian female LI any day.

[azarhal]

EdwinLi wrote...

I see some people want Cullen to be a LI but wasn't Cullen supposed to go insane and kill three you mages then go on a psychopathic killing spree of mages and then get sent to the loony bin sometime after DA:O for siding with Mages in origins?

I'm still waiting for them to explain how he became Knight-Captain after having that ending in Origins for DA2.

DA:O ending slide were rumors. Although, maybe Meredith recruited him especially because he did that. Looks like its something she would approve of.

[Lluthren]

Maybe they could use a non-LI in the promo this time. Or they could use a less prominent LI or give multiple LI equal time. They could just use a friend and show how much of a bro he or she is with the PC.

I never really noticed the isabela thing or morrigan actually. Morrigan's just an important character, so it would make sense to show her often.

[laudable11]

Wulfram wrote...

Why do you care who the "main" LI is, anyway?

I'm happy with Leliana/Merrill for my characters. I like Isabela too - though I don't think she's particularly "main", you can play the game without ever meeting her after all.

[grumpymooselion]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

...Petty, selfish, cruel, and/or evil.
We already got that with Morrigan and again with Isabela.

I don't feel like you got to know Isabela very well at all.

There were other options anyways, but none of them lacked flaws. I can't really think of a full on goody two shoes in DA2 anyways, everyone had their very obvious flaws.

[sushismygen]

I fail to see how Isabela is what you call a "main" LI. In fact there is no other game that I can think of where all LI choices were more equal. You can go through the whole game without ever picking her up. As many had pointed out before me none of the romances were flawless and I feel it was divided quite equally. You then bring up the argument that Isabella is in all trailers so that makes her a main LI. So what about Hawke then? All the trailers I've seen pictured male Hawke, does that mean that female Hawke is not a main character? I can understand your confusion when it comes to Morrigan since she's a strong part of the plot and that may feel somewhat forced on the player from the very beginning but you still can send her away. She has just as much romance content as Leliana does so I just can't see the whole main LI thing you talk about anywhere.
Other then that, there is much more to both Morrigan and Isabella then what you just stated without even giving them a proper playthrough. I would definitely recomand you romancing both, so you can see their true colors. You still may not like them much in the end but at least you could get to know the characters better before reducing them to evil and shallow. Who you end up with in the end is just a preference of the character. Some people like it sweet and shy and some like it b****y and angsty.

Modifié par sushismygen, 30 avril 2013 - 07:26 .

[Silfren]

EdwinLi wrote...

I see some people want Cullen to be a LI but wasn't Cullen supposed to go insane and kill three you mages then go on a psychopathic killing spree of mages and then get sent to the loony bin sometime after DA:O for siding with Mages in origins?

I'm still waiting for them to explain how he became Knight-Captain after having that ending in Origins for DA2.

I think that only happens on certain playthroughs, not all of them.  I'm not sure what the requirements are to get that ending.  But as was said, those ARE being treated as hearsay and rumor. 

Mind you, that's actually one of the problems I have with Cullen.  I don't understand why he's held up as this awesome ideal of a moderate templar at all.  GREGOIR was the moderate, not Cullen.  Prior to his trauma in Broken Circle, Cullen makes it clear his sympathies are with the mages.  He comes across as someone who, though he says he would do his duty, would struggle with it quite a bit, and I think he'd probably be more inclined to err on the side of sparing mages than the other way 'round. 

When he goes to the opposite extreme, it's a perfectly believable and natural response to the torture he endured.  My issue is, we SEE that aspect of his character in DA2.  He comes across as someone who is more or less healed from the worst of his trauma--he's not frothing at the mouth and advocating for the immediate Tranquilization or slaughter of all mages.  But he is still pretty extreme.  This is the guy who says you can't think of mages as people, and who clearly sympathises with Alric's push for the Tranquil Solution.  For that matter, when he's pressed by Hawke on the matter of mages, his response is that mages need to be educated all the more as to why their subjugation is necessary. 

So the guy...is NOT a moderate.  He's just not quite as extreme as Meredith.

[LobselVith8]

EdwinLi wrote...

I see some people want Cullen to be a LI but wasn't Cullen supposed to go insane and kill three you mages then go on a psychopathic killing spree of mages and then get sent to the loony bin sometime after DA:O for siding with Mages in origins?

Cullen goes insane as a consequence of the Magi Boon - which also lead to no independent Circle in Orzammar forming from Dagna's research since the Circle of Ferelden was already made free. Both of these outcomes were rectonned.

EdwinLi wrote...

I'm still waiting for them to explain how he became Knight-Captain after having that ending in Origins for DA2. 

It's a recton. It's no different than the implausibility of Anders and Justice meeting if Anders was never recruited and Justice was killed at the Dragonbone Wastes.

[Ageless Face]

Right, they should make the main male LI like that. I always wanted to romance a male version of Morrigan. But nooo... Apperantly main LIs must be overly emotional with a strong sense of duty and selflessness.

GIVE ME A GUY THAT WANTS TO DESTROY THE WORLD AND KILLS BABIES ON A WHIM GODDAMIT!!!

Modifié par HagarIshay, 30 avril 2013 - 07:59 .

[BubbleDncr]

Wulfram wrote...

Why do you care who the "main" LI is, anyway?

I'm happy with Leliana/Merrill for my characters. I like Isabela too - though I don't think she's particularly "main", you can play the game without ever meeting her after all.

There is definately a "main" love interest for both male and female characters in both Origins and DA2, and I feel the game is significantly better if you romance one of the "main" romances in your first playthrough.

Spoilers below:

Origins: If you romance Alistair, you get to deal with the excitment of possibly marrying the king/the tragedy of find out either you or him have to die to save the day. If you romance Morrigan, there's the Dark Ritual drama.

DA2: If you romance Anders, it adds a lot more dimension and drama to his giant BOOM at the ending. If you romance Isabella, it adds a lot more to the Qunari invasion in Act 2.

The other romances in the game are all well and good - in fact, I would go so far and say I like them better (Zevran and Fenris romances are much sweeter than Alisatir and Anders, IMO) - however, the reason all those moments listed above are impactful is because they invlove your love interest and you don't know they're coming. If I had romanced Zevran my first playthrough, I would have known Alistair might have to die, so that conversation wouldn't have been as jaw-dropping.

So, I care a fair amount who the "main" love interest is, because I feel its a better experience if you romance them on your first playthrough as opposed to the 2nd. So I understand the OP wanting a different personality type to be the main LI so he's want to romance her and experience that. Though I personally think they should just give every LI an important tie-in to the main story, that way everyone can experience that no matter who they romance.

[Plaintiff]

aryon69 wrote...

Or just drop these stupid romances for more story content.

Replace story content with story content! Genius, why didn't I think of that?!

Modifié par Plaintiff, 30 avril 2013 - 11:04 .

[-TC1989-]

aryon69 wrote...

Or just drop these stupid romances for more story content.

Yep, romances are rarely ever done by the gamers. This is how Bioware can avoid upsetting their fans.

[robertthebard]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Why do you care who the "main" LI is, anyway?

I'm happy with Leliana/Merrill for my characters. I like Isabela too - though I don't think she's particularly "main", you can play the game without ever meeting her after all.

There is definately a "main" love interest for both male and female characters in both Origins and DA2, and I feel the game is significantly better if you romance one of the "main" romances in your first playthrough.

Spoilers below:

Origins: If you romance Alistair, you get to deal with the excitment of possibly marrying the king/the tragedy of find out either you or him have to die to save the day. If you romance Morrigan, there's the Dark Ritual drama.

DA2: If you romance Anders, it adds a lot more dimension and drama to his giant BOOM at the ending. If you romance Isabella, it adds a lot more to the Qunari invasion in Act 2.

The other romances in the game are all well and good - in fact, I would go so far and say I like them better (Zevran and Fenris romances are much sweeter than Alisatir and Anders, IMO) - however, the reason all those moments listed above are impactful is because they invlove your love interest and you don't know they're coming. If I had romanced Zevran my first playthrough, I would have known Alistair might have to die, so that conversation wouldn't have been as jaw-dropping.

So, I care a fair amount who the "main" love interest is, because I feel its a better experience if you romance them on your first playthrough as opposed to the 2nd. So I understand the OP wanting a different personality type to be the main LI so he's want to romance her and experience that. Though I personally think they should just give every LI an important tie-in to the main story, that way everyone can experience that no matter who they romance.

Correction:  If you romance Alistair on your first playthrough, you get to get dumped for him lying to you since Ostagar, and if you do the Redcliffe quest last, he's been lying to you the whole game to that point, deliberately.  But it's your fault, just ask him.  He's so important to me that after I get Sten, he stays in camp the rest of the game, except where the game forces him to show up.

Romance Anders?  I ran him off.  Well, I got ninjamanced once, not paying attention until he moved in, and I was like WTF is this?  So no, he's not a plot essential romance.  Nobody in either game is.