201 réponses à ce sujet

[Lulupab]

I just found this lying around my computer... Notice the Tevinter chantry amulet.

Modifié par Rassler, 30 avril 2013 - 07:06 .

[Shienis]

Rassler wrote...
On my first play I wanted to kill him since I knew Bethany will be back and she can heal good enough in last battle. However there was a conversation option to ask your other allies about what to do with Anders. Merrill intently and quite surely said I must spare him and give him a chance to redeem himself... also Varric hints he doen't want to lose blondie as well. I couldn't deny Merril and Varric lol


Given merrill's character especially when you romance her its very unlikely of her  to be so intent on something so I listened and spared Anders, later before final battle I spoke with Anders and he was no longer annoying at all and all he wanted was to redeem himself. After that on my second play I romanced Anders and got to know him, he just needs help, a help that never came from people who didn't like him from the beginning hence never really knew him.

In my first play I liked Anders - it was just after Awakening, where he was awesome. I romanced him, tried to talk to him and I saw he had trouble with that demon... but there was no option to help him. This poor guy was beyond the help.   And when he blew up the Chantry, I realised, that he is truly possessed by demon (no, good spirits don't do things like that) and I've been killing possessed mages from the beginning of the game. So when he asked me to kill him, I did.
But if he joins me when I side with templars, I want him to live.  Otherwise he should stay dead.

[Althix]

Rassler wrote...
 he just needs

Help? Well my Hawke was trying to help him. You know what happened? Vengeance took over. Anders is a possessed abomination and as a mage he should have know better. Already in Awekening  Justice show signs of emotional involment into human affairs.

Also Anders is a character forced on us.

Modifié par secretsandlies, 30 avril 2013 - 12:30 .

[Lulupab]

Yes he was forced and its not a good thing. You have to recruit him to get the maps, even Isabela can be avoided despite her big role, however Anders have much bigger role. The worst part is Not only Anders was forced to be a companion he is the only potent healer so he was also forced to be in the active party...

All I ask is having Anders if you kept him alive in DA2, if he died he should stay dead. btw Anders is not an abomination, Justice and him are of one mind now. That happens when its a spirit in your body. Do you remember the conversation with Wynne? if one retains his/her humanity one is not an abomination. Anders would have fight templars without justice anyway but with justice there is no limit to what he will do. So he destroyed the chantry.

Modifié par Rassler, 30 avril 2013 - 04:55 .

[EdwinLi]

Rassler wrote...

I just found this lying around my computer... Notice the Tevinter chantry amulet.

He obtained that through Hawke as a gift if you did not know about that quest in DA2 during Act 2.

On topic:

I hope they make Justice into come kind of boss in DA3. Not because i want to kill him since I spared him so he can live to obtain is real redemption (Death is never true justice but only a escape from True Justice) and sided with the Mages in DA2 but because it would kind of fit more to have Veangence as a Boss since he is a psychopathic spirit now.

However, the final battle with Veangence should be determined by Anders' fate in DA2.

The Final part of Veangence Boss battle should take place in the Fade where...

1) If Ander survived DA2, the final battle stage will have Anders and Vengeance splitting up in the Fade finally because now their ideals are different and Anders will fight with you to stop Vengeance. On the 2nd stage we are separated from Anders and must fight different bosses. Each stage of the battle will end with a cutscene showing Anders fighting Vengeance while the MC and his group are separated from them to fight a different boss that is making Vengeance stronger unless we defeat them. It ends with Vengeance's death and Anders dies as well because of the separation from Justice but not before saying his final words and goodbye in a cutscene. (If you romance Anders in DA2 he will mention Hawke as his love during his goodbye)

2) If Anders died in DA2, The final battle stage with Vengeance will have us facing Vengence with our companions and once we reach the 2nd stage we will face vengeance alone in Anders place because he did not survive DA2. The strategy required will be different from the battle if Anders Survives because one part is that we will not have our companions with us in this version of this boss battle and different strategies will be needed to defeat Vengeance. The cutscene we see will have out character take Anders' place and our actions in the cutscene are determined by our class and weapons.

Modifié par EdwinLi, 30 avril 2013 - 05:45 .

[Lulupab]

EdwinLi wrote...

Rassler wrote...

I just found this lying around my computer... Notice the Tevinter chantry amulet.

He obtained that through Hawke as a gift if you did not know about that quest in DA2 during Act 2.

On topic:

I hope they make Justice into come kind of boss in DA3. Not because i want to kill him since I spared him so he can live to obtain is real redemption (Death is never true justice but only a escape from True Justice) and sided with the Mages in DA2 but because it would kind of fit more to have Veangence as a Boss since he is a psychopathic spirit now.

However, the final battle with Veangence should be determined by Anders' fate in DA2.

The Final part of Veangence Boss battle should take place in the Fade where...

1) If Ander survived DA2, the final battle stage will have Anders and Vengeance splitting up in the Fade finally because now their ideals are different and Anders will fight with you to stop Vengeance. On the 2nd stage we are separated from Anders and must fight different bosses. Each stage of the battle will end with a cutscene showing Anders fighting Vengeance while the MC and his group are separated from them to fight a different boss that is making Vengeance stronger unless we defeat them. It ends with Vengeance's death and Anders dies as well because of the separation from Justice but not before saying his final words and goodbye in a cutscene. (If you romance Anders in DA2 he will mention Hawke as his love during his goodbye)

2) If Anders died in DA2, The final battle stage with Vengeance will have us facing Vengence with our companions and once we reach the 2nd stage we will face vengeance alone in Anders place because he did not survive DA2. The strategy required will be different from the battle if Anders Survives because one part is that we will not have our companions with us in this version of this boss battle and different strategies will be needed to defeat Vengeance. The cutscene we see will have out character take Anders' place and our actions in the cutscene are determined by our class and weapons.

Well I know it was a gift from hawke that's why I mentioned it.

Anyway your suggestions are nice but Bioware staff still call Justice, Justice and not vengeance. He is not a psychopath, his methods are just extreme. If you remember Justice approved ser Thrask eventhough he was a templar.

And as far as I've gathered from DA lore, if the host was willing he does not have to die along with the spirit, or demon for that matter, however if it was forced the only way is to kill them.

[BubbleDncr]

Enad wrote...

1. Yes I'd like to see Anders again if he was spared, not necissarily as a companion though. I'd rather leave space for new stories to be told.

2. No, I definitely don't want Justice to take over another once good mage and turn them into a lunatic.

This. Having Anders/Justice play more than a camero role would really start to turn the DA series into the Anders/Justice series.

[Renmiri1]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Enad wrote...



2. No, I definitely don't want Justice to take over another once good mage and turn them into a lunatic.

This. Having Anders/Justice play more than a camero role would really start to turn the DA series into the Anders/Justice series.

I would love it but BSN would erupt in flames 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 01 mai 2013 - 02:29 .

[Goneaviking]

 I honestly hope never to hear of Anders in the next instalment.

Aside from disliking him as a character (no slight on the writer, she did a creditable job of taking an obviously disturbed man and radicalizing him through the story), I'd really rather the mage-templar war be associated with the issues in contention rather than the deranged warblings of an abomination with messianic delusions.
Also, if he didn't survive DA2 how many people are left that knew of his involvement and how much motivation do they have to broadcast it? 

He has as much to do with the conflict as this fellow has to do with the First World War.



How many of us can honestly give his name without looking it up?

Modifié par Goneaviking, 01 mai 2013 - 03:03 .

[Renmiri1]

The "World of Thedas" book has a full body depiction of Anders.

[chuckles471]

Goneaviking wrote...

 I honestly hope never to hear of Anders in the next instalment.

Aside from disliking him as a character (no slight on the writer, she did a creditable job of taking an obviously disturbed man and radicalizing him through the story), I'd really rather the mage-templar war be associated with the issues in contention rather than the deranged warblings of an abomination with messianic delusions.
Also, if he didn't survive DA2 how many people are left that knew of his involvement and how much motivation do they have to broadcast it? 

He has as much to do with the conflict as this fellow has to do with the First World War.



How many of us can honestly give his name without looking it up?

Educated guess,somebody involved in franz ferdinand's assassination.  Don't know the name so your point is proven.

[Lulupab]

Goneaviking wrote...

 I honestly hope never to hear of Anders in the next instalment.

Aside from disliking him as a character (no slight on the writer, she did a creditable job of taking an obviously disturbed man and radicalizing him through the story), I'd really rather the mage-templar war be associated with the issues in contention rather than the deranged warblings of an abomination with messianic delusions.
Also, if he didn't survive DA2 how many people are left that knew of his involvement and how much motivation do they have to broadcast it? 

He has as much to do with the conflict as this fellow has to do with the First World War.



How many of us can honestly give his name without looking it up?

You make a nice point, but I never asked for forcing anders in Dragon age 3. Those who killed him shouldn't see him at all. All I ask is having him in DA3 only if he was spared, is it too much? Btw David Gaider wrote Anders for Awakening and he also decided that he should also have a big role in DA2 but his character in DA2 was written by Jennifer Helper.

[Goneaviking]

Rassler wrote...
You make a nice point, but I never asked for forcing anders in Dragon age 3. Those who killed him shouldn't see him at all. All I ask is having him in DA3 only if he was spared, is it too much? Btw David Gaider wrote Anders for Awakening and he also decided that he should also have a big role in DA2 but his character in DA2 was written by Jennifer Helper. 

Didn't say you did. Nor do I think it's an unreasonable request from a fan.

But I do think that his presence is unnecessary to the story, and perhaps even distracting to it. I don't want the mage-templar conflict reduced to a fight between personalities, and I don't want to slog through forty hours of a screaming between two opposing sets of extremists of which Anders would sit comfortably as a poster boy for one faction and most wanted criminal for the other. 

I'm aware of who wrote Anders from my previous readings, but don't think that's of any particular relevance given that my concern is more for his function within a forthcoming story than over the writing/writers attached to him.

[robertthebard]

Renmiri1 wrote...

The "World of Thedas" book has a full body depiction of Anders.

So does that mean that my choosing to kill him for his crimes mean I was wrong to do so?  Anders' role in DA I is martyr to the cause.  There should be nothing else.  "But he's cute" or "but he's cuddly" isn't justification to let him live.  He deserved death for what he did, and I gave it to him.  If it's retconned to "psyche, you can't really kill him", it'll be retconned to "psyche, you can't really have my money".  He blows up the Chantry to make sure a war starts, and will even tell you so.  So people that are innocent of any crimes have to die so he can get his war?  The worst part?  If you're a mage supporter, as I was in my first playthrough, you're fixing to fight that war anyway, so it was needless.  Abominations are abominations, I didn't spare any of the others on my way to that point, even though I was supporting mages, why would I spare a man that did that?

So his role should be martyr.  After all, extremist are historically renown for that.

[OdanUrr]

robertthebard wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

The "World of Thedas" book has a full body depiction of Anders.

So does that mean that my choosing to kill him for his crimes mean I was wrong to do so?  Anders' role in DA I is martyr to the cause.  There should be nothing else.  "But he's cute" or "but he's cuddly" isn't justification to let him live.  He deserved death for what he did, and I gave it to him.  If it's retconned to "psyche, you can't really kill him", it'll be retconned to "psyche, you can't really have my money".  He blows up the Chantry to make sure a war starts, and will even tell you so.  So people that are innocent of any crimes have to die so he can get his war?  The worst part?  If you're a mage supporter, as I was in my first playthrough, you're fixing to fight that war anyway, so it was needless.  Abominations are abominations, I didn't spare any of the others on my way to that point, even though I was supporting mages, why would I spare a man that did that?

So his role should be martyr.  After all, extremist are historically renown for that.

I was expecting an option to judge him, not outright kill him or spare him.

[robertthebard]

OdanUrr wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

The "World of Thedas" book has a full body depiction of Anders.

So does that mean that my choosing to kill him for his crimes mean I was wrong to do so?  Anders' role in DA I is martyr to the cause.  There should be nothing else.  "But he's cute" or "but he's cuddly" isn't justification to let him live.  He deserved death for what he did, and I gave it to him.  If it's retconned to "psyche, you can't really kill him", it'll be retconned to "psyche, you can't really have my money".  He blows up the Chantry to make sure a war starts, and will even tell you so.  So people that are innocent of any crimes have to die so he can get his war?  The worst part?  If you're a mage supporter, as I was in my first playthrough, you're fixing to fight that war anyway, so it was needless.  Abominations are abominations, I didn't spare any of the others on my way to that point, even though I was supporting mages, why would I spare a man that did that?

So his role should be martyr.  After all, extremist are historically renown for that.

I was expecting an option to judge him, not outright kill him or spare him.

He confesses to the crime, judgment is passed.  Hawke is given the opportunity to do whatever by the only surviving ranking officer in the City.  The player then gets to judge him according to what they believe.  I believe his action was an abomination, and as such, he got the same treatment as all other abominations I have encountered.

[Lulupab]

robertthebard wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

The "World of Thedas" book has a full body depiction of Anders.

So does that mean that my choosing to kill him for his crimes mean I was wrong to do so?  Anders' role in DA I is martyr to the cause.  There should be nothing else.  "But he's cute" or "but he's cuddly" isn't justification to let him live.  He deserved death for what he did, and I gave it to him.  If it's retconned to "psyche, you can't really kill him", it'll be retconned to "psyche, you can't really have my money".  He blows up the Chantry to make sure a war starts, and will even tell you so.  So people that are innocent of any crimes have to die so he can get his war?  The worst part?  If you're a mage supporter, as I was in my first playthrough, you're fixing to fight that war anyway, so it was needless.  Abominations are abominations, I didn't spare any of the others on my way to that point, even though I was supporting mages, why would I spare a man that did that?

So his role should be martyr.  After all, extremist are historically renown for that.

I was expecting an option to judge him, not outright kill him or spare him.

He confesses to the crime, judgment is passed.  Hawke is given the opportunity to do whatever by the only surviving ranking officer in the City.  The player then gets to judge him according to what they believe.  I believe his action was an abomination, and as such, he got the same treatment as all other abominations I have encountered.

Wynne is an "abomination" too. And this is not the first war that innocents die mind you and won't be the last. Elthina was innocent indeed but she was also ignorant to suffering of mages. She didn't deserve death, obviosuly but ignorance never gets by unpunished.

Btw I'm not really a "fan" of Anders I just notice a good character when I see one. In my expereince everyone  either like Anders or completely hate him . Some people ignore some characters because they have no interest in them but such is not the case for Anders. He is ready to do everything neccessary for his cause, and having an spirit inside him removes any limit in his path. He didn't want to start a war though it was inevitable, He believes that there can be no compromise and he is right. Mages are either free or imprisoned, there is no other way. And he choose freedom.

Also you're saying he should be martyr. Probably in your playthrough because I didn't kill him and I want him to have a good role in DA3 and be a hero for mages not a martyr because you can't be a martyr while alive.

Modifié par Rassler, 01 mai 2013 - 04:43 .

[OdanUrr]

Rassler wrote...

Wynne is an "abomination" too. And this is not the first war that innocents die mind you and won't be the last. Elthina was innocent indeed but she was also ignorant to suffering of mages. She didn't deserve death, obviosuly but ignorance never gets by unpunished.

I don't think she was ignorant, but I do believe she turned a blind eye all too often and prayed for the best, which is worse.

[Renmiri1]

But.. but..

[Lulupab]

[azarhal]

OdanUrr wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Wynne is an "abomination" too. And this is not the first war that innocents die mind you and won't be the last. Elthina was innocent indeed but she was also ignorant to suffering of mages. She didn't deserve death, obviosuly but ignorance never gets by unpunished.

I don't think she was ignorant, but I do believe she turned a blind eye all too often and prayed for the best, which is worse.

Elthina's idea was that "the Maker will do what is right and his children will see the light and compromise". The way I take the end is that her dying and Meredith/Orsino going insane is the Maker's will.

[Lulupab]

azarhal wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Wynne is an "abomination" too. And this is not the first war that innocents die mind you and won't be the last. Elthina was innocent indeed but she was also ignorant to suffering of mages. She didn't deserve death, obviosuly but ignorance never gets by unpunished.

I don't think she was ignorant, but I do believe she turned a blind eye all too often and prayed for the best, which is worse.

Elthina's idea was that "the Maker will do what is right and his children will see the light and compromise". The way I take the end is that her dying and Meredith/Orsino going insane is the Maker's will.

Couldn't agree more!


The things I'd do to see thise scene...

Sebastian depends on hawke all the time to bring "justice" to people who he thinks are guilty, but its simply act of pure vengeance which he can't do without help of hawke. He has broken his vows to his beloved maker so many times he himself has lost counting yet he swears to bring "true justice" to all of kirkwall. I couldn't surpress laughter when he made that empty threat. Only if his writer(s) made him a bit more... badass.



Anders ftw

Modifié par Rassler, 01 mai 2013 - 09:30 .

[Sejborg]

Rassler wrote...

azarhal wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Rassler wrote...

Wynne is an "abomination" too. And this is not the first war that innocents die mind you and won't be the last. Elthina was innocent indeed but she was also ignorant to suffering of mages. She didn't deserve death, obviosuly but ignorance never gets by unpunished.

I don't think she was ignorant, but I do believe she turned a blind eye all too often and prayed for the best, which is worse.

Elthina's idea was that "the Maker will do what is right and his children will see the light and compromise". The way I take the end is that her dying and Meredith/Orsino going insane is the Maker's will.

Couldn't agree more!


The things I'd do to see thise scene...

Sebastian depends on hawke all the time to bring "justice" to people who he thinks are guilty, but its simply act of pure vengeance which he can't do without help of hawke. He has broken his vows to his beloved maker so many times he himself has lost counting yet he swears to bring "true justice" to all of kirkwall. I couldn't surpress laughter when he made that empty threat. Only if his writer(s) made him a bit more... badass.



Anders ftw

I agree. Killing innocent bystanders is awesome and should be rewarded with kisses. 

not.

[Goneaviking]

Rassler wrote...
Wynne is an "abomination" too. And this is not the first war that innocents die mind you and won't be the last. Elthina was innocent indeed but she was also ignorant to suffering of mages. She didn't deserve death, obviosuly but ignorance never gets by unpunished.

Btw I'm not really a "fan" of Anders I just notice a good character when I see one. In my expereince everyone  either like Anders or completely hate him . Some people ignore some characters because they have no interest in them but such is not the case for Anders. He is ready to do everything neccessary for his cause, and having an spirit inside him removes any limit in his path. He didn't want to start a war though it was inevitable, He believes that there can be no compromise and he is right. Mages are either free or imprisoned, there is no other way. And he choose freedom.

Also you're saying he should be martyr. Probably in your playthrough because I didn't kill him and I want him to have a good role in DA3 and be a hero for mages not a martyr because you can't be a martyr while alive.

Wynne isn't a murderer, which is a fairly big distinction between the two characters.

It isn't about innocents die during war, it's about the fact that starting the war was Anders stated goal. Everything that happens, every innocent who dies in that war is on Anders' head, it's because he was unhinged and so extreme in his views that he stopped seeing the other side as people with legitimate fears and concerns and instead imagined a binary world that existed only in his imagination.

War was never inevitable. Conflict yes, but it didn't have to end in wholesale slaughter. We saw at the beginning of chapter three that people were openly looking for someone like Hawke to step into the vacuum left by the Arashok's murder of the Viscount and maintained by Meredith's political ambitions to push her aside. If Anders hadn't decided that murder was an acceptable course of action there's every reason to believe that the situation in Kirkwall could have been rectified, in fact that was exactly what I was expecting up until he betrayed me by involving me in a political assassination.

The right of annulment wouldn't have been invoked if Anders hadn't been so obsessed with giving Meredith a casus belli, Orsino and the circle were Anders' intended victims as much as Elthina.

Anders is a good character, I agree with you on that. He didn't interest me overmuch in Awakening, but he had some amusing lines and didn't annoy me, but I actually did dislike him through the DA2 because of his obsession with conspiracy theories and his obviously growing radicalisation. 

You say he was willing to do anything for his cause? I call that nonsense, because although he's certainly willing to kill for it, and to be martyred for it he wasn't willing to negotiate for it. At every stage in the game he shows himself unwilling to compromise, the only reason that the mages' condition can't be improved and the circles turned from prisons into something more wholesome is because people like Anders can't imagine any viable alternative.

The world has to burn because of his lack of imagination.

One of the reasons I'd prefer him to be largely ignored in DAI is that there's precisely no reason he should be relevant, even if he survived DA2.

Certainly he kicked the whole conflict off, but his mage underground had been disintegrated around him and he was no longer a leader to anyone. Few people have any reason to suspect that the healer in darktown had anything to do with the explosion and few people, if anyone, has any reason to care.

His goals, however noble he may imagine them to be, won't be the ones that shape the conflict. It'll be the leaders of the various factions, who for the most part should already be in place who decide the way events unfold and which slogans are being chanted between battles.

Logically Anders is just some mad bomber who kicked over the apple cart and made the whole world bleed.

Modifié par Goneaviking, 01 mai 2013 - 11:11 .

[Renmiri1]

Sejborg wrote...

I agree. Killing innocent bystanders is awesome and should be rewarded with kisses. 

not.

Oh lighten up. Is not like you are complaining about anyone romancing Fenris (killed an entile tribe and more), Zevran (kills for fun and money), Leliana (kills just for fun) or others.

It. Is. A. Game. 

No rl people or kittens were harmed during the making of Act 3. Sheesh!

Modifié par Renmiri1, 03 mai 2013 - 12:50 .