264 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

AresKeith wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Cheviot wrote...

I see no such detachment.  Shepard's choice at the end of ME3 is formed by his experiences over the series, and his experience during the war.  To pick a random example, a Shepard who freed the Rachni Queen in ME1 would be less likely to choose destroy than a Shepard who killed her, since the first Shepard would know that some previously hostile species can be trusted at their word, and can co-exist with others given the right cirumstances.

Bad example. I saved the rachni queen in every single play through... all 12 of them. I've only played ME3 three times. I picked destroy all three times. I sided with the quarians twice and made peace once. The Geth with Legion at least show some redeeming features. I see absolutely no redeeming features in the Reapers -- ZERO. I would never pick an ending where the reapers were left around. Bioware might as well have made a single ending game.

Without metagaming. The galaxy went too far. I trusted my instincts and trusted Liara. And then there was that souring of the songs. It sounded like reaper interference to me. So I trusted the queen.

One Ideal ending that branches off in many different ways based on your choices including whether Shepard lives or dies

And being to control the Reapers, with a fail ending where the cycle continues

Ah yes, the Low EMS Control ending. The one where you gave the base to TIM, and got the Low EMS ending ... the one with no destroy ending available. You die. The Normandy crashes, everyone on board perishes.

[TheRealJayDee]

My 'main' Shepard saved the Rachni Queen and chose Destroy.

[AresKeith]

My main Shepard saved the Queen, cured the genophage and chose Destroy

[KENNY4753]

My main Shep saved the Queen, cured the genophage, made Quarian/Geth peace, and chose destroy

[robertthebard]

My main Shepard saved the Queen, cured the genophage, couldn't make peace and chose the geth, then destroyed.

[Steelcan]

My main Shep killer the queen and chose Destroy.

Breaking the pattern

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

My main Shepard saved the Queen, shot Wrex, faked the genophage cure, made peace, then Destroyed. 100% Galactic Readiness. 100% completion. EMS =

[robertthebard]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

My main Shepard saved the Queen, shot Wrex, faked the genophage cure, made peace, then Destroyed. 100% Galactic Readiness. 100% completion. EMS =

I never got to shoot Wrex, or to let Ashley do it, but, I did let Garrus shoot Ashley, does that count?

[cljqnsnyc]

My Shep saved everyone and made no deals with the enemy. He remained true to himself, his friends, and allies. He didn't gain an allies' trust just to stab them in the back with genocide in the end. He didn't tell TIM he was wrong for trying to "control" the enemy, only to be proven the biggest hypocrite of all time later on. He didn't choose to take away the choices of the entire galaxy and transform them all into the new master race. He didn't say to hell with the galaxy and give it the biggest kiss off ever with his refusal....which leads to even more genocide than another of the silly starchild's schemes.

The starchild is the King Of The Repears...who have murdered billions upon billions. This is someone you will even listen to and deal with on any level? Not my Shep.

I choose MEHEM. Shep remains the same character I started years ago...the ultimate Paragon. No deals with the enemy, no betrayal of friends and allies, no hypocrisy, no new master race.

NO SILLY STARCHILD!

It's great that people made the choices they can live with for their own personal reasons. I'm glad the modding community afforded me the option to make a choice I can live with.

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 30 avril 2013 - 05:22 .

[TheRealJayDee]

Steelcan wrote...

My main Shep killer the queen and chose Destroy.

I'm sure your Shepard had his reasons for doing so.

(filthy xenophobic luddite, you ^^)

[Bizinha]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

I choose MEHEM. Shep remains the same character I started years ago...the ultimate Paragon. No deals with the enemy, no betrayal of friends and allies, no hypocrisy, no new master race.

I would be happy if you would leave the pro MEHEM PS3: (I have to go soon master race.

[cljqnsnyc]

Bizinha wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

I choose MEHEM. Shep remains the same character I started years ago...the ultimate Paragon. No deals with the enemy, no betrayal of friends and allies, no hypocrisy, no new master race.

I would be happy if you would leave the pro MEHEM PS3: (I have to go soon master race.

PS3? 

I've never owned, operated, or touched a PS3 before. I only game on the PC. I have no idea what your statement means. 
 

Edit. Sorry. I guess I misunderstood you. Both Sony and Microsoft would never allow fanmade creations onto their machines because they can't make a buck on them. Sad but true. I gamed on the 360 years ago, before I knew anything about mods or rig building. Today, I couldn't even imagine console gaming again. Also, I was lead to believe that modifying the PS3 or 360 would get you banned somehow. There are some mods out there for consoles but I wouldn't really call those mods. They seem more like hacks and cheats than actual mods.

You would be severly limited on both machines anyway. They just aren't designed to handle mods to the degree a pc can. You might be more successful on the next gen consoles as far as mods go. I guess you'll just have to wait 
and see. 

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 30 avril 2013 - 02:14 .

[Bizinha]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Bizinha wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

I choose MEHEM. Shep remains the same character I started years ago...the ultimate Paragon. No deals with the enemy, no betrayal of friends and allies, no hypocrisy, no new master race.

I would be happy if you would leave the pro MEHEM PS3: (I have to go soon master race.

PS3? 

I've never owned, operated, or touched a PS3 before. I only game on the PC. I have no idea what your statement means. 

I mean: I wanted to mod for ps3 was as easy as making mods for the pc. 

[PsyrenY]

Astartes Marine wrote...

When I first chose Destroy for the first time (even before the EC when the Geth's destruction was guaranteed by that line from the Catalyst "you can wipe out all synthetic life if you want, including the Geth") I went in expecting that Shepard would die too, and thinking "I'll see you in the afterlife Legion, I only pray that you can forgive what I'm about to do and understand why." and I shot the tube.  It was not something I did casually.

But this is still either fear or vengeance. Fear of what the Reapers might do, either under your control or synthesized. Or vengeance for the lives they took being repaid, at any cost, no matter how high.

Fear of Control is understandable (see below) but fear of Synthesis is illogical, because you are quite deliberately not giving one individual all the power.

Astartes Marine wrote...

I could not choose control as it's far too much power for one single man to have.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and it leaves the Reapers intact leaving the possibility of future harvests open as once Shepard becomes the Catalyst he's no longer the character I've been playing for three games and instead is something...else, with the combined knowledge and logic of the Reapers.

This I agree with, as it is the reason I did not choose Control.

Astartes Marine wrote...

I could not choose Synthesis as that's too drastic a change to decide in the few seconds one gets at the end of the game.  That is something that would require discussion and debate among all the races, Shepard is not qualified nor does he have the right to make that kind of change for everyone.  Besides we've seen that forced uplifting before a race is ready can have dire consequences...it is not something to be done on a whim. 
If the Catalyst is right and synthesis is inevitable then it should be done gradually and we should accomplish it on our own terms, allowing everyone to adapt as it comes and have all the extra experience and maturity when it does happen.

Shepard is not qualified to make any of the choices. But s/he has to make them anyway, there is no one else. So that rationale is right out.

My understanding of synthesis is that the experience and maturity are part of the package. For it to be a solution to the cyclical problem of ignorant organics creating enlightenened synthetics, the "ignorant" part needs to be solved first. The Catalyst, having watched our ignorance for eons, believes this is the solution, therefore logically it does solve this problem.

Astartes Marine wrote...

As for Refuse...I DO like the speech that Shepard gives.  The first time I heard that speech I thought, THAT'S MY SHEPARD!  Now let's end this war the right way!
And then I got dick slapped in the face by "art" and a game over.  <_<

I loved the speech too. I loved the result even more. I thought "THAT'S MY BIOWARE!" Give people the choice they clamor for, and stay true to the universe you created at the same time. It was brilliant. Conventional Victory is impossible.

[David7204]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

My Shep saved everyone and made no deals with the enemy. He remained true to himself, his friends, and allies. He didn't gain an allies' trust just to stab them in the back with genocide in the end. He didn't tell TIM he was wrong for trying to "control" the enemy, only to be proven the biggest hypocrite of all time later on. He didn't choose to take away the choices of the entire galaxy and transform them all into the new master race. He didn't say to hell with the galaxy and give it the biggest kiss off ever with his refusal....which leads to even more genocide than another of the silly starchild's schemes.

The starchild is the King Of The Repears...who have murdered billions upon billions. This is someone you will even listen to and deal with on any level? Not my Shep.

I choose MEHEM. Shep remains the same character I started years ago...the ultimate Paragon. No deals with the enemy, no betrayal of friends and allies, no hypocrisy, no new master race.

NO SILLY STARCHILD!

It's great that people made the choices they can live with for their own personal reasons. I'm glad the modding community afforded me the option to make a choice I can live with.

Your Shepard is a complete idiot, then.

[Astartes Marine]

Optimystic_X wrote...
But this is still either fear or vengeance. Fear of what the Reapers might do, either under your control or synthesized. Or vengeance for the lives they took being repaid, at any cost, no matter how high.

One's vengeance is another's justice.

Optimystic_X wrote...
My
understanding of synthesis is that the experience and maturity are part
of the package.

So...magic essentially?  The sheer mechanics of that and the hows and whys...

Optimystic_X wrote...
I loved the speech too. I loved the result
even more. I thought "THAT'S MY BIOWARE!" Give people the choice they
clamor for, and stay true to the universe you created at the same time.
It was brilliant. Conventional Victory is impossible.

Ebaying the game was a tempting choice when I first saw the results of refuse.  It felt like being insulted by not loving the trio of fails.  "You don't like our art?  Then screw you."

[David7204]

That would also be pretty stupid. 'Ebaying' the game doesn't give you power over the developers. You might as well punch yourself in the face in order to hurt them.

You can't just put in a refuse ending with the Reapers being killed conventionally and have things work.

Modifié par David7204, 30 avril 2013 - 06:31 .

[PsyrenY]

Astartes Marine wrote...

One's vengeance is another's justice.

Neither is justification for genocide.

Astartes Marine wrote...

So...magic essentially?  The sheer mechanics of that and the hows and whys...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

Astartes Marine wrote...

Ebaying the game was a tempting choice when I first saw the results of refuse.  It felt like being insulted by not loving the trio of fails.  "You don't like our art?  Then screw you."

You're waffling yet again - taking things that happen to the fictional characters so personally, yet using their fictional nature as justification for destruction. If the fate of fictional characters doesn't bother you, why does Refusal's result come across as a personal screw you?

[Astartes Marine]

David7204 wrote...
That would also be pretty stupid. 'Ebaying'
the game doesn't give you power over the developers. You might as well
punch yourself in the face in order to hurt them.
You can't just put in a refuse ending with the Reapers being killed conventionally and have things work.

No, we just have a magic win device brought in at the last second that up until the end nobody has any idea of what it does.  That's so much better. 

As for ebaying, no it wouldn't be stupid and no **** it wouldn't give me power.  I'd have been able to recover some money that I spent originally to help soothe the disappointment. 

Optimystic_X wrote...
You're waffling yet again - taking things that happen to the fictional characters so personally, yet using their fictional nature as justification for destruction. If the fate of fictional characters doesn't bother you, why does Refusal's result come across as a personal screw you?

The idea that BioWare flipped people off for rightfully being upset at a rushed ending is what bothers me. 

[Iakus]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...
You're waffling yet again - taking things that happen to the fictional characters so personally, yet using their fictional nature as justification for destruction. If the fate of fictional characters doesn't bother you, why does Refusal's result come across as a personal screw you?

The idea that BioWare flipped people off for rightfully being upset at a rushed ending is what bothers me. 

This.

And it has me really worried about future products as well

[David7204]

Plenty of people think so, evidently. People of people have told me how perfect the ending would be if the Crucible just turned out to be a Reaper-killer with no catches or consequences, with no Catalyst or choices or Reaper motive.

Obviously this issue is not and never has been about money.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Optimystic_X wrote...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

Ah yes, that old argument.

The problem lies within understanding biology and understanding science vs non-sense.

Can you explain what my "Life energy" and "life essence" is?

Can you explain to me how you can reach a final point in evolution?

Can you explain to me how all life apparently has DNA, even synthetics?

Can you explain how being vaporized in a beam somehow activates it with enough energy and material to cause a change to every denizen in the galaxy?

Can you explain to me the science behind that? Or the symbolism?

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 30 avril 2013 - 06:58 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

So...magic essentially?  The sheer mechanics of that and the hows and whys...

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke

Cop out. 

[Argolas]

David7204 wrote...

Plenty of people think so, evidently. People of people have told me how perfect the ending would be if the Crucible just turned out to be a Reaper-killer with no catches or consequences, with no Catalyst or choices or Reaper motive.

You disagree?

I am not saying the ending would be "perfect" that way, but I am pretty sure removing the Catalyst eliminates roughly 90% of the worst issues already. Before MEHEM, there was already a simple fanmade version that just cut directly after Anderson's death and skipped right to the Destroy ending- and it worked pretty well already.

I'm still fine with mere self-interest as the Reapers' motive. It worked for Sauron. It worked for Voldemort. It worked for the Darkspawn. It worked just fine for the Reapers.

[David7204]

Yes, I very heavily disagree. We don't solve problems by avoiding them.