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If the Community was allowed to make balance changes?!


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#226
RedJohn

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Air Quotes wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

dr_random wrote...

Internet poll? You serious? No, thanks - I prefer being mad at devs rather than at the people I play with.

 

If you get small buffs to underpowered classes and weapons for at least 3 starting months would you be mad? 


That's not the problem, you know how troll we ( community ) can be.

Balances shouldn't be in the comunity's responsability because the community never know what they want, they might buff some basic weapons and stuff but then what?, within not too much time things would become a real dissaster.


And it say it someone that wants a massive buff to the Adas.

 

READ before posting. 

If it was only a limited list on what people can vote on and all items on that list are small buffs to underpowered stuff for 3 months (and that is a LONG time) that are not larger than 10%. 

In 3 months maybe the community will get "better", maybe the servers get killed, but those UP classes and weapons will surely appreaciate the buffs. 


A gaming forum on internet getting better?, I wish I had your faith.

#227
parico

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Thylakaleo wrote...

The community can make their own balance changes.

You just need a PC, and no fear of being banned.



or a striker and a destroyer and people wonder what will happen if community could actually change this game unchecked. 

#228
Thylakaleo

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Air Quotes wrote...

Thylakaleo wrote...

The community can make their own balance changes.

You just need a PC, and no fear of being banned.

 

Well yeah. But that only applies to your own lobby. And in other words it's called cheating. 


Yeah... i guess that was the joke, wasn't it?

#229
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Thylakaleo wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Thylakaleo wrote...

The community can make their own balance changes.

You just need a PC, and no fear of being banned.

 

Well yeah. But that only applies to your own lobby. And in other words it's called cheating. 


Yeah... i guess that was the joke, wasn't it?

 

:mellow: or was it? <_< WAS IT? :ph34r:

#230
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RedJohn wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

RedJohn wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

dr_random wrote...

Internet poll? You serious? No, thanks - I prefer being mad at devs rather than at the people I play with.

 

If you get small buffs to underpowered classes and weapons for at least 3 starting months would you be mad? 


That's not the problem, you know how troll we ( community ) can be.

Balances shouldn't be in the comunity's responsability because the community never know what they want, they might buff some basic weapons and stuff but then what?, within not too much time things would become a real dissaster.


And it say it someone that wants a massive buff to the Adas.

 

READ before posting. 

If it was only a limited list on what people can vote on and all items on that list are small buffs to underpowered stuff for 3 months (and that is a LONG time) that are not larger than 10%. 

In 3 months maybe the community will get "better", maybe the servers get killed, but those UP classes and weapons will surely appreaciate the buffs. 


A gaming forum on internet getting better?, I wish I had your faith.

 

Well in 3 months any troll would probably cooldown. 

Modifié par Air Quotes, 29 avril 2013 - 08:38 .


#231
Striker93175

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Air Quotes wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Yeah I wasn't saying it would be necessarily a bad idea...
Just that it should be given some thought though. Saying "we're the ones who know how things go therefore we're the ones who get to decide" is... Not exactly what democracy is founded on :happy:

 

If they wanna vote, they can come here - register and vote. Like you know, citizens do? :P


Ah yes, or I can sneak in through the 'server backdoor'... register with a fake alias, and cast my 'balance change' vote on what gains me free 'psp' and entitles me to 'easy damage output'.  All the while demanding that your poll be written in my language of choice -- 'hex' or 'binary'!  Then being genuinely outraged for you calling me out on it!!!

Image IPB

Modifié par Striker93175, 29 avril 2013 - 08:45 .


#232
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Striker93175 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Deerber wrote...

Yeah I wasn't saying it would be necessarily a bad idea...
Just that it should be given some thought though. Saying "we're the ones who know how things go therefore we're the ones who get to decide" is... Not exactly what democracy is founded on :happy:

 

If they wanna vote, they can come here - register and vote. Like you know, citizens do? :P


Ah yes, or I can sneak in through the 'server backdoor'... register with a fake alias, and cast my 'balance change' vote on what gains me free 'psp' and entitles me to 'easy damage output'.  All the while demanding that your poll be written in my language of choice -- 'hex' or 'binary'!  Then being genuinely outraged for you calling me out on it!!!

Image IPB

 

Go ahead punk. Make 500 accounts.. :P

#233
sandboxgod

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So now You'd need devs approval on the changes? Even tho devs announced they are done and its over

Let's face it guys this game is a wrap. Just learn to be content with the changes they've made.

I'm very happy with the status quo. I got nothing to gain by you buffing the stuff I wont use anyway. I only see this game getting ruined by BSN

the casuals wont register to vote. And no way would i ever agree to BSN running the changes

#234
Selthae

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If the community was allowed to make changes...

The constant HOO-RAAAH Novaguard sound-spam would become less annoying.

#235
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sandboxgod wrote...

So now You'd need devs approval on the changes? Even tho devs announced they are done and its over

Let's face it guys this game is a wrap. Just learn to be content with the changes they've made.

I'm very happy with the status quo. I got nothing to gain by you buffing the stuff I wont use anyway. I only see this game getting ruined by BSN

the casuals wont register to vote. And no way would i ever agree to BSN running the changes

 

I never said anything about that. Plus, you're biased. So what if you don't have anything to gain? Many will. Even from small buffs. They add up you know. 

#236
sandboxgod

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You should've added a poll maybe to get feedback from everyone if you're really serious bout pursuing this. I've vote no of course. I've been in a state of bliss ever since the balance changes ended

Sure, I appreciate the buffs. Most changes were good. Even the bad ones was for the greater good. I realize that

But I'm also a selfish happy gamer

I like that point bout the Batarian Vanguard that dude Strikman wrote. I do. It's a great post. Great point

But alas, I can just acolyte the phantom then knock her back anyway. I can live w/o that buff

#237
ToaOrka

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Seems like a good idea.
First order of business: Nerfing the Harrier.

#238
january42

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Air Quotes wrote...


I never said anything about that. Plus, you're biased. So what if you don't have anything to gain? Many will. Even from small buffs. They add up you know. 


Honestly, I'm not sure there is much point to restricting yourself to small buffs as long as you have a decent way selecting items to vote on.   If something bad happens,  you just reverse it next week. NP.   The original Krysae lasted a few weeks IIRC and that was way worse than anything I can see the community passing.

#239
Tokenusername

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I got to about page 5 before I decided I knew how this thread was progressing.

In short, you have too much faith in people, while at the same time dismissing the flaws of your idea. This is basically, a horrible idea. I'm going to try talking this on a point by point basis.

Firstly, BSN is a very small portion of the community, and the group within it that really understands the game balance is even smaller still. You are giving a great amount of power to a very small amount of people. You claim that "the people that really care about the game are already on BSN" and that "if they want to vote they can just join BSN and vote". Both of these are elitist and ignorant statements. You basically claim that the only people that matter are on BSN, and if anyone takes offense to that they should just join BSN.
How are people not on BSN supposed to know that there are even balance changes being done on BSN, or even to go so far as that BSN exists. The obvious answer one would give is to "put up a notice to go to BSN in-game". How often will this notice come up? Once? What if it is accidentally skipped on habit. What if someone decides to check it out later because they actually wanted to play the game when they started the game and forget the web address. Can you find that information again later if you need to? What happens when BSN account policies confuse or deter people and they end up giving up on trying to use BSN? Do these people not matter because "they didn't put in the effort to join"? Should we be invaliding the opinions of people based on such frivolous standards?

You claim that bioware doesn't need to test this because the community can test it. How do we "test" non-existant number changes? PC players can mod their game and see first hand what these changes will be like, but what about Xbox players, and PS3 players, and that Nintendo thing people forget about.. We can't see how these changes will actually affect gameplay. PC players are a very small percentage compared to the console playerbase. Should the balance of the game be completely differed to PC players with the tools to do actual empirical testing? The PC players with framerate adjustments, modified FoV, a entirely different control scheme, and a dedicated reload cancel button? What about the people that don't care about any testing and just make their choices off gut feelings? What happens when people feel that the Suppressor is too weak because they didn't do well with it, when they just didn't know how to use the weapon and went for body shots? Should people without extensive knowledge of gameplay not be given an equal vote because of their ignorance? Does that not defeat the entire purpose of opening balance changes to the community?

What level of play are we balancing for? Many of the very active people on BSN play a majority of Gold or higher. Most opinions on gameplay will be coming from their in-game experiences, which will be of level on gold or higher. The most recent estimate I can recall placed around 80% of the playerbase in Bronze and Silver. If the game is balance around higher difficulties, what happens to lower ones? What keeps the hard difficulties hard? You commented earlier by saying that you felt that bronze was the "intro" difficulty, silver was easy, gold was normal, and platinum was hard, but that is completely wrong because platinum didn't exist for a large amount of the game's lifetime. It started as just Bronze, Silver, and Gold, respectively easy, normal, and hard. When people complained that the hard difficulty wasn't hard enough, the made a super hard difficulty, which created the illusion of difficulty by differences in scale rather than differences in kind. The game was continuously balanced around the "normal" difficulty, Silver, because that's what made the hard difficulties hard. I have a feeling you'll still disagree with me on this, but i've said all I feel I need to on this subject.

What determines what is included in balance changes? Does Bioware make a list? Does that not mean they have to do empirical testing to determine what is on that list? Does that not defeat the whole objective here? Are players voting a hundreds of sub-polls to decide the options of the official poll? What happens when people only want to buff everything and get super-power creeps. An inevitable response would be "well the community will nerf it back down when thing get too powerful", but what makes you think that? What happens when rather than logical nerfs to overpowered abilities, the community instead tries to buff everything else to compete with the OP things? When everything keeps getting stronger and stronger, what happens to the game's difficulty? When everyone can blast through a platinum game with a team of scimitars, what keeps them interested in the game? One might reply to that with that "people won't make the game easy-mode because they enjoy playing the game and being challenged more than winning", to which I would reply a big fat lol, probably with an accompanied gif. People farm all the time, because what they want is credits. Why wouldn't most people want to blow through an easy game with OP weapons to get tons of credits to buy more OP weapons?

I had another thing I wanted to say, but I seem to have forgotten it...Maybe i'll remember later.
Anyway, most of your idea is based on faith in the community. Faith which frankly it doesn't deserve. There may be a few examples of forumites with good ideas, but within the community as a whole, you could count them on your fingers.

TL;DR: If you didn't have the patience to read it, you don't really care what i'm saying.

#240
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Well you had to read more, not only the first 5 pages.

First of all we would need a dev response to this thread.

Modifié par Air Quotes, 29 avril 2013 - 11:57 .


#241
Tokenusername

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Air Quotes wrote...

Well you had to read more, not only the first 5 pages.


Nice dismissal. ;)

#242
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Tokenusername wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Well you had to read more, not only the first 5 pages.


Nice dismissal. ;)

 

Because we touched on a lot of the questions you made. :)

#243
WaffleCrab

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Tokenusername wrote...

Snip*
.


I usually agree to disagree with you token, but on this i see eye to eye with you

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 30 avril 2013 - 04:59 .


#244
WaffleCrab

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Original Stikman wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

you can easily set up a systems that allows propositions on a single balance change that requires a number of votes to get "passed." then, when the prop gets passed, it has to get approved by a dev, or bioware employee to be "approved." if the dev disaproves you can always rewrite the prop, get the votes, and then have it be send to get passed again.... it can still interact with devs.... it doesn't HAVE to be taken into the game just because it gets voted


:S sadly, each time dev does not pass it, all the voting is for nothing, henche, why even try :S


good ones would probably get passed. It also makes the temptation to troll not really worth it. the only problem with it, potentially, is more work for the devs.

Proposing a buff to the batarian vanguards biotic charge force by 5%, would probably get passed and approved, whereas a proposition that the harrier should be buffed by 30%, while possibly being voted to approval, won't pass because its stupid.

it would simply discourage dumb trolls


they would have had us all waste our time waiting for a decision from a dev not to go through with it, so even there they would be succesfull.

#245
36812180234

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The only change which is really needed is significant (not by pathetic 5 or 10%) buff for explosive ammo. Or the ammo should be removed from the store at all, since now it is just wasting slots in the packs and trolling players. Removal will not make any influence for balance, and I think everybody will agree on such balance change.

Second possible change could be removing some weapons from ultra rare list, because now they simply do not deserve the honorable title of ultra rare. This will again not break the balance of the game and will not make any difference for the elite gamers with full manifest, but will help new players significantly. I think the proper list of ultra rare could be voted, but it also could be based on usability statistics. Actually some rare weapons also deserve to be ultra rare (like Reager and Claymore).

With such change I see no need for buffing common weapons, since players will have better access to rare and ultra rare weapons. After that I see no real need for balance changes for weapons.

I think people would be also happy to have a possibility to trade consumables, but I guess this may be difficult to implement.

#246
MaxShine

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I can't comment in detail atm, but I like the idea...

#247
WaffleCrab

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36812180234 wrote...

The only change which is really needed is significant (not by pathetic 5 or 10%) buff for explosive ammo. Or the ammo should be removed from the store at all, since now it is just wasting slots in the packs and trolling players. Removal will not make any influence for balance, and I think everybody will agree on such balance change.

Second possible change could be removing some weapons from ultra rare list, because now they simply do not deserve the honorable title of ultra rare. This will again not break the balance of the game and will not make any difference for the elite gamers with full manifest, but will help new players significantly. I think the proper list of ultra rare could be voted, but it also could be based on usability statistics. Actually some rare weapons also deserve to be ultra rare (like Reager and Claymore).

With such change I see no need for buffing common weapons, since players will have better access to rare and ultra rare weapons. After that I see no real need for balance changes for weapons.

I think people would be also happy to have a possibility to trade consumables, but I guess this may be difficult to implement.


i would go down with this