246 réponses à ce sujet

[Ziegrif]

Air Quotes wrote...
We will never know until we try. People had opportunities to be dicks in other surveys. But they weren't and most of them aswered honestly. 

So take a leap of faith?
With something important like Balance?

I would not take that risk.

You're also underestimating the internet.

It will always get worse.

[sandboxgod]

Don't forget these forums totally sucked during the balance changes phase. This is probably why Bioware couldn't wait to bounce.

Plus, like someone else hinted at, I wouldn't feel comfortable with BSN balancing a game I paid for. I'd be okay if this game was moddable like Neverwinter (or Dragon's Age) then I could reject BSN changes.

But no way in hell would I want you guys changing the game for me at this point.

#1 These forums would go down in flames with balance suggestions again
#2 Most of BSN poster are too elite. Everything fun would get nerfed into the ground

Hell to the hell no

[Cyonan]

Air Quotes wrote...
I can think of 5 things pretty easily. And buffing the them 10% would do good things immediately. 

Start with buffs only. 

10% buff to Poison Strike DOT 
10% buff to Explosive Rounds on all levels 
10% buff to Sentry turret 
10% buff to Sumbission net DOT
10% buff to Scimitar 
10% buff to Katana  

There. One month. Next moth - new discussion. 

10% more damage isn't going to do much for anything on that list except maybe the shotguns, so I wouldn't really say "good things immediately" even if 10% buff is the limit based on the rules.

and I don't even agree with the shotguns being on that list. A common that's supposed to be pretty bad anyway needs a buff more than the rares that are bad?

Modifié par Cyonan, 29 avril 2013 - 06:09 .

[Cyonan]

sandboxgod wrote...

#2 Most of BSN poster are too elite. Everything fun would get nerfed into the ground

Is it fun because the mechanics of the weapon are actually enjoyable, or is it "fun" because it's overpowered?

[parico]

Air Quotes wrote...
I can think of 5 things pretty easily. And buffing the them 10% would do good things immediately. 

10% buff to Scimitar 
10% buff to Katana  

There. One month. Next moth - new discussion. 

This is why its a bad idea players would buff things based on thier manifests so the store would become pointless.  Everyone would buff the katana to outclass the wraith and pirhana.   Never understood why so many don't understand that common guns should be underwhelming comapred to rare and ur weapons.  Now if a common is better than a ur thats a balance issue. 

[Cyonan]

Air Quotes wrote...

It's a good thing. Things that were awful got a small buff. Still better than nothing. And if you have something more important to buff - vote and express your opinion. 

That would just bring us full circle because I don't think that having the entire BSN vote on balance in this game would result in a thing that has any semblance of balance in it.

Which was what my very first post was =P

[Manbearpig]

I'd start a campaign to get the shuriken nerfed for the lulz.

[sandboxgod]

@Cyonan, to be brief there's a lot of kits that folks claim is OP that I see PUGs struggle with all the time.

Let's put it this way. Some BSN folks would say my Harrier X is OP. But I say hell no it isnt. And even if it is, I need an edge to help these platnium pugs have some hope in extracting

I see AIUs die all the time. The average BSN poster would have folks believing that AIU & Geth Juggernaut are 100% iWin cards. But that's a total lie. I see geth juggies die left & right.

In the end, Skill trumps everything. The only thing thats cheap is this' game's enemies & the store.

[january42]

Air Quotes wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

If we did balancing the game would be horribly balanced.

It's much harder to balance a game well than a lot of the people on the BSN think.

 

Well if the guys like you and Pedro and Corlist and a few others were involved it woudn't be that hard. Pure math. No feelings. 

Unlike ME1, you can't really balance this based on pure math. To many different mechanics going on at once. Overall it's a good thing, as it makes it more interesting.  But it makes it harder to balance.

[january42]

Air Quotes wrote...
We will never know until we try. People had opportunities to be dicks in other surveys. But they weren't and most of them aswered honestly. 

Make a group for this I (and probably others) will honestry join and try. I dunno if it will work, but you don't know till you try.

[robarcool]

I believe that this can lead to very bad decisions at times. I have seen in threads how people want to totally annihilate something when they don't like and have a notion how it is overpowered. It will also lead to lot of cries when some genuine nerf or buff is done and will lead to rescinding of the changes next time. This is all my belief and could be wrong, but it is based off my time spent in the forum reading threads.

[sandboxgod]

Air Quotes wrote...

january42 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

If we did balancing the game would be horribly balanced.

It's much harder to balance a game well than a lot of the people on the BSN think.

 

Well if the guys like you and Pedro and Corlist and a few others were involved it woudn't be that hard. Pure math. No feelings. 

Unlike ME1, you can't really balance this based on pure math. To many different mechanics going on at once. Overall it's a good thing, as it makes it more interesting.  But it makes it harder to balance.

 

Limited small changes CAN be based on math. No one is talking about complete overhauls. Get it? 

Yeah but overtime it can add up to a complete overhaul. When many of us purchased this game we thought we were getting a finished product. If I had any idea was still tearing up the game's balance I totally would've passed. It was very agonizing every balance day waiting to see what they'd tear up next

[PureGeth]

I'd nerf all the DLC characters to where they have 50 shields and 5 health. No Barriers.

[Cyonan]

sandboxgod wrote...

@Cyonan, to be brief there's a lot of kits that folks claim is OP that I see PUGs struggle with all the time.

Let's put it this way. Some BSN folks would say my Harrier X is OP. But I say hell no it isnt. And even if it is, I need an edge to help these platnium pugs have some hope in extracting

I see AIUs die all the time. The average BSN poster would have folks believing that AIU & Geth Juggernaut are 100% iWin cards. But that's a total lie. I see geth juggies die left & right.

In the end, Skill trumps everything. The only thing thats cheap is this' game's enemies & the store.

It's still something to consider, though. Plenty of people say "You're nerfing fun things!" when we talk about nerfing the Harrier, but when you break it down what is the difference between the Harrier and the Avenger?

The Harrier does a lot more damage while the Avenger is lighter and has more ammo. Other than that they're both moderately accuracy full auto assault rifles.

Now, some people are actually going to find a moderately accuracy full auto assault rifle to be fun. That's a legitimate point. I enjoy the single shot sniper rifles and there are a lot of those(I also got lucky in that the Mantis isn't awful like the Avenger is).

However, when people start using that argument every time a nerf is discussed it starts sounding less like "I enjoy using this style of weapon" and more like "I enjoy being really powerful" which has nothing to do with the gun in question.

When discussing balance, fun isn't typically a good argument to use unless you're discussing making changes that would alter the essence of the gun itself. If you really find the Harrier fun then you should still find it fun even if it does a little less damage than it does now.

That's why AQ mentioned the 10% cap. It's there so that we can't Krysae things.

[january42]

Air Quotes wrote...

january42 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

If we did balancing the game would be horribly balanced.

It's much harder to balance a game well than a lot of the people on the BSN think.

 

Well if the guys like you and Pedro and Corlist and a few others were involved it woudn't be that hard. Pure math. No feelings. 

Unlike ME1, you can't really balance this based on pure math. To many different mechanics going on at once. Overall it's a good thing, as it makes it more interesting.  But it makes it harder to balance.

 

Limited small changes CAN be based on math. No one is talking about complete overhauls. Get it? 

I'm not sure what you mean.  There is a while lot of mechanics in this game that can't be balanced mathematicaly.  You have stuff like Sabotage, which is pretty good vs 1 faction, somewhat useful vs another almost pointless vs the other two.  And there are tons of other issues, like hosting vs non-hosting.  Heck, a big part of grenade utilty is what the map is and what the team is (3 or more will tend to have problems).    Even then, you have something like the  Reegar.  How do you balance the limited range and ammo capacity with the damage output?  

I  think most of the stuff you can balance with math is done already.

[Turian Master Race]

It will never work. You will never get a consensus. Either people will complain that a small group of elite BSN players change their game to something they don't want, or the small group of elite player will complain that ignoramus scrubs vote silly balance changes. If the game dies it dies not because of the lack of balance changes. The balance changes are gone, the game is still fun. Get over with it.

[Cyonan]

Air Quotes wrote...

10% buff to Poison Strike DOT 
10% buff to Explosive Rounds on all levels 
10% buff to Sentry turret 
10% buff to Sumbission net DOT
10% buff to Scimitar 
10% buff to Katana   
 
If this was the list of things you can vote on and you can only cast 1 vote, I can't see how it could go horribly wrong. You will need 500 accounts to spoof that. Go ahead, make my day losers. 

and who gets to decide the list? Why do they get to decide what to vote on?

It becomes less the BSN voting on things and more you(or whoever is making up that list, even BioWare) trying to balance the game with a few BSN checks in place so you don't go completely insane on things.

[Original Twigman]

sandboxgod wrote...

@Cyonan, to be brief there's a lot of kits that folks claim is OP that I see PUGs struggle with all the time.

Let's put it this way. Some BSN folks would say my Harrier X is OP. But I say hell no it isnt. And even if it is, I need an edge to help these platnium pugs have some hope in extracting

I see AIUs die all the time. The average BSN poster would have folks believing that AIU & Geth Juggernaut are 100% iWin cards. But that's a total lie. I see geth juggies die left & right.

In the end, Skill trumps everything. The only thing thats cheap is this' game's enemies & the store.

I believe there was a poll that stated whether or not the AIU should or should not be nerfed, and most of BSN said that it shouldn't be nerfed. It would be an interesting experiment, imo.

You would encourage posters to both A) write up stupid posts that state "buff the HARRIER!! DURRR HURRR" followed by a bunch of other empty heads cheering like they were at a frat party, and have people writing up some serious propositions for or against balance changes to aspects of the game. I would assume the latter would hold more weight

i would go further to say that people with video recording capabilities that can give visual representation of what their arguments are could be even more pursuasive, so that gives a bit of an unfair advantage.

overall, a lot of people on bsn are easy to manipulate with sophistry, so.... i would be curious to see if it is plausible

[parico]

Air Quotes wrote...

parico wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...
I can think of 5 things pretty easily. And buffing the them 10% would do good things immediately. 

10% buff to Scimitar 
10% buff to Katana  

There. One month. Next moth - new discussion. 

This is why its a bad idea players would buff things based on thier manifests so the store would become pointless.  Everyone would buff the katana to outclass the wraith and pirhana.   Never understood why so many don't understand that common guns should be underwhelming comapred to rare and ur weapons.  Now if a common is better than a ur thats a balance issue. 

 

Jumping to conclusions like a boss. Read the OP. 

I did read it anyways heres how that will end. 


www.youtube.com/watch