160 réponses à ce sujet

[d_nought]

IamZAE wrote...

VoidNeXus 000 wrote...

codsquallic wrote...

In my experience nothing beats the Black Widow X on any infiltrator.

My Javelin GI would like to have a word with you.

Infiltrator with Black Widow X says: "I can't be beat"

GI with Javelin responds: "Come see me I need a word with you, I'm in the thunderdome"

[Original Twigman]

me0120 wrote...

GiroX- wrote...

Why do some people insist on not using things designed to help you in video games? Do those people take the path with most resistance for everything they do?

Not directed at anybody, just a general thought after reading this thread.

Because using something that inhibits self-progression does no decrease resistence. The nature of a crutch.

There are typically weapon + class combos that are superior to the Acolyte + Hurricane + any class combo. The problem is that they will not venture out and are instead making things more difficult in the long run.

bingo. much like the never ending Jugg.... or awful pugs that emerged after FBW was fixed.

[HoochieHamiltoe]

The only class I run this combo on is the Turian Cabal. And, tbh I only bring the Acolyte to deal with Phantoms on-host DR BS. If I were playing off-host, no Acolyte.

And, I agree switching weapons just to strip the shields is a waste of time, in most cases.

Modifié par HoochieHamiltoe, 30 avril 2013 - 06:41 .

[GiroX-]

me0120 wrote...

GiroX- wrote...

Why do some people insist on not using things designed to help you in video games? Do those people take the path with most resistance for everything they do?

Not directed at anybody, just a general thought after reading this thread.

Because using something that inhibits self-progression does no decrease resistence. The nature of a crutch.

There are typically weapon + class combos that are superior to the Acolyte + Hurricane + any class combo. The problem is that they will not venture out and are instead making things more difficult in the long run.

How does any combo in this game inhibit progression? Just playing the game makes you better than before. It might make your game one-dimensional, but it doesnt make you any worse.

And whats wrong with using Acolyte/Hurricane on everything, anyway? I dont recommend it on ever y class, but thats because there are other optimal combos. But using optimal loadouts is a crutch.

It seems like a paradox to me. 

[Original Twigman]

GiroX- wrote...

me0120 wrote...

GiroX- wrote...

Why do some people insist on not using things designed to help you in video games? Do those people take the path with most resistance for everything they do?

Not directed at anybody, just a general thought after reading this thread.

Because using something that inhibits self-progression does no decrease resistence. The nature of a crutch.

There are typically weapon + class combos that are superior to the Acolyte + Hurricane + any class combo. The problem is that they will not venture out and are instead making things more difficult in the long run.

How does any combo in this game inhibit progression? Just playing the game makes you better than before. It might make your game one-dimensional, but it doesnt make you any worse.

And whats wrong with using Acolyte/Hurricane on everything, anyway? I dont recommend it on ever y class, but thats because there are other optimal combos. But using optimal loadouts is a crutch.

It seems like a paradox to me. 

i believe you are now just mixing up definitions of crutch and optimal. Optimal =/= crutch. Optimal enhances performance, pushing the limit of a players/person capacity....

a crutch does not....

its not a paradox, you are just creating one through definition.

[GiroX-]

Original Stikman wrote...

i believe you are now just mixing up definitions of crutch and optimal. Optimal =/= crutch. Optimal enhances performance, pushing the limit of a players/person capacity....

a crutch does not....

its not a paradox, you are just creating one through definition.

Im clearly missing the difference here.

Is the Acolyte not the optimal weapon for low CD shield stripping? Isn't it "so optimal" compared to every other weapon that it becomes a crutch?

Modifié par GiroX-, 30 avril 2013 - 06:55 .

[Original Twigman]

GiroX- wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

i believe you are now just mixing up definitions of crutch and optimal. Optimal =/= crutch. Optimal enhances performance, pushing the limit of a players/person capacity....

a crutch does not....

its not a paradox, you are just creating one through definition.

Im clearly missing the difference here.

Is the Acolyte not the optimal weapon for low CD shield stripping? Isn't it "so optimal" compared to every other weapon that it becomes a crutch?

not if you then need to switch to another weapon to deal armor.... there are plenty of alternatives that are faster than the acolyte for shield stripping and faster than the hurricane or CSMG for taking down armor (when the two are paired).

Yes, you are missing the difference.

an analogy i can give is Lance Armstrong.

The guy won many races using testosterone (as did all the top cyclers he competed against). He pushed the limit of cycling. yet, if you removed the testosterone from the sport (never going to happen), you would still have the same guys winning, pushing the limit, finding optimal strategies to do so.

then you have the guy who places "ok." he doesn't train and doesn't do well... takes testosterone and bumps up a few places in his racing, so he keeps juicing... when he comes off, the guys he was beating easily surpass him, despite having similar training/supplementation regimes.... thats a crutch.

same substance, two totally different experiences.

Modifié par Original Stikman, 30 avril 2013 - 07:07 .

[Zorinho20_CRO]

I don´t know which weapon I dislike more,Hurricane or Acoyte:pinched:

[Trontor]

DHKany wrote...

Following today's theme of cheese, it seems as if Acolyte Hurricane is perhaps one of the cheesiest weapons combos in the game.

No, it isn't cheesy. It is a consequence of (bad?) game design choices:
1. The weapon weight system is too restrictive in multiplayer.
2. Biotic Powers don't work well against shields but the Acolye does.

I just don't get it why BSN insists on calling good builds cheesy. The only cheesy build I have ever encountered in almost 14 month of ME3 multiplayer was the pre-nerf Krysae on an Infiltrator.

Modifié par JustAnotherVanguard, 30 avril 2013 - 07:05 .

[Zorinho20_CRO]

JustAnotherVanguard wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Following today's theme of cheese, it seems as if Acolyte Hurricane is perhaps one of the cheesiest weapons combos in the game.

No, it isn't cheesy. It is a consequence of (bad?) game design choices:
1. The weapon weight system is too restrictive in multiplayer.
2. Biotic Powers don't work well against shields but the Acolye does.

I just don't get it why BSN insists on calling good builds cheesy. The only cheesy build I have ever encountered in almost 14 month of ME3 multiplayer was the pre-nerf Krysae on an Infiltrator.

Ah,nothing made Phantoms more "timid" than good old Krysae.

[Tortugueta]

According to many here, anything successful is "cheesy", "easy mode", "crutch", or "lolsomething".

Lame.

[Original Twigman]

Tortugueta wrote...

According to many here, anything successful is "cheesy", "easy mode", "crutch", or "lolsomething".

Lame.

i know. its lame that people enjoy casually drifting through anything remotely challenging. forget learning and progressing... lets just ride the wave



its a mentality... some get it, some don't

[Trontor]

zorinho20 wrote...

Ah,nothing made Phantoms more "timid" than good old Krysae.

The old Krysae made (almost) every enemy timid:
1. No reason to aim properly: with AoE proximity projectils you will hit anyway.
2. If you didn't kill the enemy with all of the above you probably staggered them and had an even easier job to kill them with the second shot.

That gun was really bad because it required absolutely no skill and effort.

[ScarletN7]

Are you calling me a cheese covered clown? O.o

[GiroX-]

Original Stikman wrote...

GiroX- wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

i believe you are now just mixing up definitions of crutch and optimal. Optimal =/= crutch. Optimal enhances performance, pushing the limit of a players/person capacity....

a crutch does not....

its not a paradox, you are just creating one through definition.

Im clearly missing the difference here.

Is the Acolyte not the optimal weapon for low CD shield stripping? Isn't it "so optimal" compared to every other weapon that it becomes a crutch?

not if you then need to switch to another weapon to deal armor.... there are plenty of alternatives that are faster than the acolyte for shield stripping and faster than the hurricane or CSMG for taking down armor (when the two are paired).

Yes, you are missing the difference.

Im strictly speaking about shield stripping in the previous example. 

Is the Acolyte not considered a crutch because it so good at what it does that if you can ONLY use the Acolyte to efficiently strip shields, you probably wont be able to use any other weapon effectively in dropping shields? 

Im not discussing the Acolyte/Hurricane combo, Im trying to find the point where something is no longer just the best option available, but becomes a crutch. 

Is it when something becomes so grossly better than the other options available that it becomes a crutch? 

[Zorinho20_CRO]

JustAnotherVanguard wrote...

zorinho20 wrote...

Ah,nothing made Phantoms more "timid" than good old Krysae.

The old Krysae made (almost) every enemy timid:
1. No reason to aim properly: with AoE proximity projectils you will hit anyway.
2. If you didn't kill the enemy with all of the above you probably staggered them and had an even easier job to kill them with the second shot.

That gun was really bad because it required absolutely no skill and effort.

Yeah,but there are other weapons that require almost no skill with pretty similar(off course not the same)results.

[CoffeeHolic93]

Whatever, I just want to have fun.

[Meistr_Chef]

Mi-Chan wrote...

Whatever, I just want to have fun.

www.youtube.com/watch

[solidprice]

k1ngl1ves wrote...

There should be the option to not equip any weapons...

if i wasnt wrong it was possible at one time in the demo. spam all the concussive shots/throws!

and yes it is good and cheesy. but you know what they say......

https://i.chzbgr.com...5632/hF54FB1AA/

[me0120]

GiroX- wrote...

Im strictly speaking about shield stripping in the previous example. 

Is the Acolyte not considered a crutch because it so good at what it does that if you can ONLY use the Acolyte to efficiently strip shields, you probably wont be able to use any other weapon effectively in dropping shields? 

Im not discussing the Acolyte/Hurricane combo, Im trying to find the point where something is no longer just the best option available, but becomes a crutch. 

Is it when something becomes so grossly better than the other options available that it becomes a crutch? 

If you ignore the fact that the term (like most terms on forums) is used incorrectly or in an exaggerated sense, then it might be more clear.

First, look at what a typical crutch actually is. It is something you use to help you walk. It works by supporting parts of your body to make walking easier. If someone grows up using crutches to walk will they ever be as good a walker as someone who doesn't use crutches to walk?

Now, look at the Acolyte. It is a light, AoE weapon with an insane anti-shield and barrier multiplier, a bounce effect, and no recoil. Yes, it is powerful. But it also inhibits self-progression. The ways it does this is by making things too easy in a sense. It does not promote headshots (on mooks an Acolyte might take the shields down but an Arc Pistol makes it a one-hit kill). It does not promote aiming. It comes at little to no cost, thanks to cooldown mechanics. It even causes staggers on unarmored mooks. And of course, it strips barriers and shields quickly.

People tend to "lean" on the Acolyte by not improving their skills in the areas where the Acolyte shines. Without improving skills people tend to get lazy like in the picture Twigman showed, he got worse at walking just as gamers can get worse at playing games.

And now that you read all that, you can't change the parameters of your question mid-argument. You asked a question then changed it to:

GiroX- wrote...
strictly speaking about shield stripping

And if anything here is wrong, it's not you...it's me. And I still want to be friends. <3

[HolyAvenger]

My personal favourite caster weapon combo, especially for biotics.

Cheesy? Well it's a rank or two below the lolharrier, lolreegar, lolgrenadespam, lolcainmines etc., but it's not exactly hipster.

[Dr. Tim Whatley]

The only issue I see with that is if that's the only combo you know how to play with. I fell into that trap when the Acolyte charge was removed and had that combo on everything. It gave me a false sense of security in terms of skill level, and I was brought crashing down when the charge was reinstated.

It was probably the best thing that happened because I actually had to learn how to play without "easy mode" for lack of a better description.

[MaxShine]

Well... The Hurricane by itself isn't that great on the majority of classes if you use it out of melee range

[Shadow of Terror]

Acolyte or Hurricane helps power classes compete better with pure weapons classes.

I really don't care if anyone calls using a certain weapon/class is a crutch. Can you use the class without the weapon? If the answer is yes, even if you're less effective, then it's not a crutch, if you can't at all, then it's a crutch. Same goes with classes, if you can use other classes well, but just not as well as the class you use all the time, then it's not a crutch, you just do better with a certain class.

If the answer to either of those was no, then it can be called a crutch.