160 réponses à ce sujet

[ASmoothCriminalx]

Original Stikman wrote...

it is an effective combo.... until its not. What i mean by that is, its the go-to combination of guns when the player doesn't know what else to do.

Ex. No Infiltrator should have to run the combo. The huntress is the only one who can get away with running an acolyte, due to not having the weapon damage bonus.

No character with shield stripping power needs this.... Overload kits/Arc Grenade kits. Disruptor Rounds + High powered weapon (lancer, harrier, wraith, claymore, crusader, etc.), will eliminate an atlas shield faster than pew pew of an acolyte, and save you time switching weapons.

yet i see the combo on kits like, Human engineer, shadow infiltrator, QME, QMI, Turian Sentinel

its just sad to see the combo on the valkyrie.... which doesn't even make sense, considering that, if you are going for effective, the reegar can't be beat.

Its not that players who use it are sissies, its the players who can't use much else outside the combo who are.

True. An infiltrator doesn't need an acolyte, but most engineers will be more efficient with the acolyte. One-shotting nearly every mook in the game on platinum with incenacolyte and overload/incinerate? that's pretty efficient and you're only limited by your cooldown.

And with the QME, why settle for arc grenade > incinerate for a TB and then follow up with a 2nd arc grenade for the FE ? when you could, acolyte > to arc grenade for FE/TB > incinerate for TB. Same amount of Tech explosions for 1 less grenade. Yes, I know there is a difference in the level of FEs but either of those combos will kill any plat mook except for a phantom if you catch in a dodge animation or don't know how to avoid proccing her barrier.

[Shadow of Terror]

Original Stikman wrote...

No character with shield stripping power needs this.... Overload kits/Arc Grenade kits. Disruptor Rounds + High powered weapon (lancer, harrier, wraith, claymore, crusader, etc.), will eliminate an atlas shield faster than pew pew of an acolyte, and save you time switching weapons.

yet i see the combo on kits like, Human engineer, shadow infiltrator, QME, QMI, Turian Sentinel

Here's the thing, the kits you listed there highly benfit from making tech bursts/Fire explosions using ammo as a primer, the acolyte is the ligest, one shot prime weapon, while also throwing in the added bonus of instant shield stripping, with a nice stagger animation. You could use an Adas or Falcon to do the ammo providing job of the Acolyte, but they are also heavy, so you have decide if the extra damage/stagger is worth the weight.

Human engineer, prime with acolyte, detonate with overload/incinerate. QME, prime with acolyte, detonate TB with incinerate, detonate FE with arc grenade.

Shadow/QMI have far better choices however, as does the Turian sentinel (although, the hurricane is good on him).

[Shadow of Terror]

ASmoothCriminalx wrote...

And with the QME, why settle for arc grenade > incinerate for a TB and then follow up with a 2nd arc grenade for the FE ? when you could, acolyte > to arc grenade for FE/TB > incinerate for TB. Same amount of Tech explosions for 1 less grenade. Yes, I know there is a difference in the level of FEs but either of those combos will kill any plat mook except for a phantom if you catch in a dodge animation or don't know how to avoid proccing her barrier.

Would be better to set off the first TB/FE with incinerate, then set of the FE with the Arc Grenade.

[Knockingbr4in]

QME should Acolyte shot > Incinerate > Arc Grenade. You might never feel the need to switch to your Hurricane on Gold, or quite rarely. Might not be the same for Plat however; armor spam etc.

edit: oh wait, didn't see the above msg. carry on.

Modifié par Knockingbr4in, 30 avril 2013 - 09:24 .

[Deerber]

HolyAvenger wrote...

My personal favourite caster weapon combo, especially for biotics.

Cheesy? Well it's a rank or two below the lolharrier, lolreegar, lolgrenadespam, lolcainmines etc., but it's not exactly hipster.

Dammit, Djeck! I opened this thread for the sole purpose of doing an Inb4Djeck! You damn ninja! 

[HolyAvenger]

Deerber wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

My personal favourite caster weapon combo, especially for biotics.

Cheesy? Well it's a rank or two below the lolharrier, lolreegar, lolgrenadespam, lolcainmines etc., but it's not exactly hipster.

Dammit, Djeck! I opened this thread for the sole purpose of doing an Inb4Djeck! You damn ninja! 

 

 

I actually only run a few kits with the combo- QFE, HA, PA, Vorcha Soldier/Sentinel. 

Sometimes the Slayer/Asariguard if I feel like using SMG amps instead of Pistol/Shotgun ones.

But I play my Human Adept and Phoenixdept a lot, so it feels like I use them a lot.

I run a Hurricane GI quite a bit. Never put an Acolyte on him though. 

[billy the squid]

It's cheesy. I use it for most of my adept classes, due to the inherent suckiness of biotics vs shields. But on Sentinels and engineers? Nah, they already have shield stripping powers. Soldiers and Infiltrators, mods and ammo types let them deal with it or they can just max their damage potential with their powers like Tac cloak or mrksmn and blast through shields.

Vanguards are somewhere in between, but they're up close most of the time so a Talon shot deals with the issue better than switching between the Acolyte. Unless we're thinking of PD or Nova spam, then an Acolyte shot is definitely worthwhile.

[Lathlaer]

It's funny that it wasn't a big deal few months ago. It seems BSN really likes adding "lol" to just about any weapon/combo that can be remotely good.

Judging by how those opinions and threads pop, there are probably, like, five weapons you are allowed to use without the risk of beeing called out as playing something "lol" or "crutch".

[Caineghis2500]

I run with acolyte alot but to be honest I do better without it on most classes I use. Stickman has a point in saying that it's useless using the acolyte on shield stripping classes.

[Tortugueta]

Original Stikman wrote...

Tortugueta wrote...

According to many here, anything successful is "cheesy", "easy mode", "crutch", or "lolsomething".

Lame.

i know. its lame that people enjoy casually drifting through anything remotely challenging. forget learning and progressing... lets just ride the wave

its a mentality... some get it, some don't

You are confused. It is one thing to challenge yourself to solo platinum with a level 1 char and an unmodded Shuriken, and quite another calling all good kits "cheesy" or what have you.

First is fine, second is lame.

[The-Fantasm]

Why does it matter to others what weapon you're using/not using? Does it directly effect you in some life-changing fashion? Threads like these never made much sense to me.

[Kuato Livezz]

If someone was using a hornet, folks would say "why use that when you can use the hurricane?". People use the hurricane, folks reply "Thats crutch!"

[cato potato]

Knockingbr4in wrote...

We should all run with no spec old turians with non-modded shurikens without using consumables in the thunderdome. volus are too OP, they still have a dodge and light melee cloak.

Pfft, playing this game using your hands is a crutch tactic. Real players headbutt the controller

[The-Fantasm]

cato_84 wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

We should all run with no spec old turians with non-modded shurikens without using consumables in the thunderdome. volus are too OP, they still have a dodge and light melee cloak.

Pfft, playing this game using your hands is a crutch tactic. Real players headbutt the controller

I can actually imagine a few people on these forums doing exactly that.

[Kuato Livezz]

cato_84 wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

We should all run with no spec old turians with non-modded shurikens without using consumables in the thunderdome. volus are too OP, they still have a dodge and light melee cloak.

Pfft, playing this game using your hands is a crutch tactic. Real players headbutt the controller

The controller is a logitech formula 1 racing wheel though.  A regular controller is crutch.

[WaffleCrab]

hmmmm i still dont think it is as cheesy as this thread.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The-Fantasm wrote...

cato_84 wrote...

Knockingbr4in wrote...

We should all run with no spec old turians with non-modded shurikens without using consumables in the thunderdome. volus are too OP, they still have a dodge and light melee cloak.

Pfft, playing this game using your hands is a crutch tactic. Real players headbutt the controller

I can actually imagine a few people on these forums doing exactly that.

Done it!

[GiroX-]

me0120 wrote...


If you ignore the fact that the term (like most terms on forums) is used incorrectly or in an exaggerated sense, then it might be more clear.

First, look at what a typical crutch actually is. It is something you use to help you walk. It works by supporting parts of your body to make walking easier. If someone grows up using crutches to walk will they ever be as good a walker as someone who doesn't use crutches to walk?

Now, look at the Acolyte. It is a light, AoE weapon with an insane anti-shield and barrier multiplier, a bounce effect, and no recoil. Yes, it is powerful. But it also inhibits self-progression. The ways it does this is by making things too easy in a sense. It does not promote headshots (on mooks an Acolyte might take the shields down but an Arc Pistol makes it a one-hit kill). It does not promote aiming. It comes at little to no cost, thanks to cooldown mechanics. It even causes staggers on unarmored mooks. And of course, it strips barriers and shields quickly.

People tend to "lean" on the Acolyte by not improving their skills in the areas where the Acolyte shines. Without improving skills people tend to get lazy like in the picture Twigman showed, he got worse at walking just as gamers can get worse at playing games.

And now that you read all that, you can't change the parameters of your question mid-argument. You asked a question then changed it to:

GiroX- wrote...
strictly speaking about shield stripping

And if anything here is wrong, it's not you...it's me. And I still want to be friends. <3

Thank you, I wanted someone to clarify what I was missing. So something does become a "crutch" when it is far superior to the other options. 

I'm still not sure what BSN considers "optimal" though. Can anyone give an example of a weapon that is the best option available but is not a crutch? 

And to clarify on the last part, none of my posts have been arguments (there no side for me to argue for ), but me admiting ignorance and authentically trying to find what the general public thought. Much more like a discussion.

I didnt switch anything up, I was discussing the OP"s Acolyte/Hurricane with you but In my discussion with Mr Stikman I brought up the Acolyte as an example just to keep things simplified. 

[GiroX-]

Kuato Livezz wrote...

If someone was using a hornet, folks would say "why use that when you can use the hurricane?". People use the hurricane, folks reply "Thats crutch!"

This is a great example for my previous posts in this thread.

At what point did the Hurricane go from "optimal SMG" to crutch that makes you unable to use the other SMG's?

[FLAREMAN]

It's no where near as cheesy as the Adrenaline Module III sprinting Grenade spamming Drell Adept/Vanguard; MQI; Asari VG; Drell VG; or Cain mine spamming Talon Merc. We get it. You carry +5 nades and mindlessly sprint around all over the map in the cricle from ammo crate to ammo crate and toss grenades along your trail of tears. Being your teammate is only as much fun as missile glitchers on this side of the line in the sand. That it's a clever use of in game mechanic earns it the Gold Cheese Whiz Cannister bust.

[Original Twigman]

GiroX- wrote...

me0120 wrote...


If you ignore the fact that the term (like most terms on forums) is used incorrectly or in an exaggerated sense, then it might be more clear.

First, look at what a typical crutch actually is. It is something you use to help you walk. It works by supporting parts of your body to make walking easier. If someone grows up using crutches to walk will they ever be as good a walker as someone who doesn't use crutches to walk?

Now, look at the Acolyte. It is a light, AoE weapon with an insane anti-shield and barrier multiplier, a bounce effect, and no recoil. Yes, it is powerful. But it also inhibits self-progression. The ways it does this is by making things too easy in a sense. It does not promote headshots (on mooks an Acolyte might take the shields down but an Arc Pistol makes it a one-hit kill). It does not promote aiming. It comes at little to no cost, thanks to cooldown mechanics. It even causes staggers on unarmored mooks. And of course, it strips barriers and shields quickly.

People tend to "lean" on the Acolyte by not improving their skills in the areas where the Acolyte shines. Without improving skills people tend to get lazy like in the picture Twigman showed, he got worse at walking just as gamers can get worse at playing games.

And now that you read all that, you can't change the parameters of your question mid-argument. You asked a question then changed it to:

GiroX- wrote...
strictly speaking about shield stripping

And if anything here is wrong, it's not you...it's me. And I still want to be friends. <3

Thank you, I wanted someone to clarify what I was missing. So something does become a "crutch" when it is far superior to the other options. 

I'm still not sure what BSN considers "optimal" though. Can anyone give an example of a weapon that is the best option available but is not a crutch? 

And to clarify on the last part, none of my posts have been arguments (there no side for me to argue for ), but me admiting ignorance and authentically trying to find what the general public thought. Much more like a discussion.

I didnt switch anything up, I was discussing the OP"s Acolyte/Hurricane with you but In my discussion with Mr Stikman I brought up the Acolyte as an example just to keep things simplified. 

\\

Bolded: you are still clearly not getting it. Its not a superior option.... its an option that provides a huge safety net when its not really needed

[Original Twigman]

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

No character with shield stripping power needs this.... Overload kits/Arc Grenade kits. Disruptor Rounds + High powered weapon (lancer, harrier, wraith, claymore, crusader, etc.), will eliminate an atlas shield faster than pew pew of an acolyte, and save you time switching weapons.

yet i see the combo on kits like, Human engineer, shadow infiltrator, QME, QMI, Turian Sentinel

Here's the thing, the kits you listed there highly benfit from making tech bursts/Fire explosions using ammo as a primer, the acolyte is the ligest, one shot prime weapon, while also throwing in the added bonus of instant shield stripping, with a nice stagger animation. You could use an Adas or Falcon to do the ammo providing job of the Acolyte, but they are also heavy, so you have decide if the extra damage/stagger is worth the weight.

Human engineer, prime with acolyte, detonate with overload/incinerate. QME, prime with acolyte, detonate TB with incinerate, detonate FE with arc grenade.

Shadow/QMI have far better choices however, as does the Turian sentinel (although, the hurricane is good on him).

no way.

There are a few things that people have to take into consideration, lets use the QME, since you chose him.

Acolyte has travel time, as does incinerate & arc grenade. Both powers have cast animations.

A harrier, on the other hand does not have travel time (hitscan). You can easily take out a mook just as fast, if not faster if you learn to headshot with the harrier alone using disruptor rounds.

vs. a boss, the difference will become even more apparent.

Assuming you Tac Scan the Boss, you can simply shoot the harrier until your clip runs out, use grenades to reload cancel, and then keep firing away.

You will demolish an atlas faster with a harrier instead of having to A) wait for travel time of the acolyte  wait for charge up with acolyte, C) animations of both incinerate and arc grenade.

Benefitting from tech bursts are great, but if there is a superior option that requires learning how to shoot/aim better, why not take the time to learn to use it?

[JohnnyQPublic]

Original Stikman wrote...

no way.

There are a few things that people have to take into consideration, lets use the QME, since you chose him.

Acolyte has travel time, as does incinerate & arc grenade. Both powers have cast animations.

A harrier, on the other hand does not have travel time (hitscan). You can easily take out a mook just as fast, if not faster if you learn to headshot with the harrier alone using disruptor rounds.

vs. a boss, the difference will become even more apparent.

Assuming you Tac Scan the Boss, you can simply shoot the harrier until your clip runs out, use grenades to reload cancel, and then keep firing away.

You will demolish an atlas faster with a harrier instead of having to A) wait for travel time of the acolyte  wait for charge up with acolyte, C) animations of both incinerate and arc grenade.

Benefitting from tech bursts are great, but if there is a superior option that requires learning how to shoot/aim better, why not take the time to learn to use it?

LOL, you're suggesting use of a harrier in a discussion about avoiding "crutch" weapons??  Alrighty then.

[GiroX-]

Original Stikman wrote...


Bolded: you are still clearly not getting it. Its not a superior option.... its an option that provides a huge safety net when its not really needed

You need to give me an example. You can't just keep saying Im not getting it without actually trying on your part to explain it to me. It comes off as condescending. 

What single weapon in this game rips the shields off things as effectively as the Acolyte and gives a 200% CD? You can probably think up a combination of things that is more effective, but no single weapon comes close to what the Acolyte can do with the same weight. Thats why people think it's a crutch.

And you are facilitating the paradox, you say the Acolyte is a crutch, but then say the Harrier is optimal compared to the Acolyte for the QME. Everyone on BSN seems to think the Harrier is a major crutch.

EDIT: Seriously though, if you get it and I dont, why cant you simply explain it to me? We're not talking theoretical physics or something, just an example of some sort would suffice!

Modifié par GiroX-, 30 avril 2013 - 05:24 .

[Beerfish]

I miss out on the affects of the acolyte as I just hate carrying more than one weapon. When it was a non charge up weapon for a while I used it fairly often with my casters. I'm a lazy bugger because I do not want to invest the time into being effective with two weapons. any time I take two I invariably end up switching weapons when I don;'t want to when reloading or having the 2nd weapon come out when trying to get the missile launcher etc.