199 réponses à ce sujet

[TheBorgPrincess]

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and let me just apologize in advance for the really long post. I just finished the game a few days ago (with Leviathan and the EC) and honestly, I am so confused by the ending. I just feel kind of hollow and frustrated about the whole game now. The problem for me is not only did I feel that it was emotionally
unsatisfying, but I also don't think large portions of how the Reaper conflict was solved make any sense!

I've spent a while going through the forums and trying to read about stuff to figure it all out but it's difficult because many threads seemed to quickly devolve into personal criticisms about people who liked the ending vs. people who didn't. Also, many of the threads I found happened before the EC, so I don't know if they're even applicable. So, I've written down the major questions I have with the game. I was hoping that you guys could maybe help me answer them? Obviously this would be helpful not only for me, but also for anyone who played the game and was left feeling confused/unsatisfied.


If you post about one of my questions, below, please reference the question number!

• Leviathans were unable to explore space/build ships/ build technology themselves right? (I'm basing
  this off the linked codex entry and what you hear in the DLC.) That is why it was so important that they were able to “enthrall” land-based species? So then how did they build the AI in the first place?
  
  • Resolved: I forgot that the thralls could just build the AI for them. Whoops.
• Why would Leviathans create a synthetic to solve the problem of synthetics constantly rebelling and killing thrall species? The Leviathan you talk to makes it seem like they distrusted synthetics from the get-go, so creating an AI solution makes little sense to me. If you were concerned about this, wouldn't you not build any synthetics at all? 
  
• On harvesting as a logical solution to life preservation (and an AI developed this, so at the very least, it should be logical): I get the notion that organics will make synthetics, synthetics will kill organics, etc, etc. But... you're killing organics anyway by harvesting. The only difference is, you're speeding up the kill/grow cycle and yay, you
  make a giant reaper in the “likeness” of the races you just killed. How in the world is harvesting actually making anything any better?
  
• I don't understand the synthetic/organic conflict. To say that synthetics “will always kill” organics to the point of total and complete annihilation suggests that synthetics have some sort of vendetta against organics. We have seen NO evidence of this thus far. The geth fought only as long as it took to save themselves. It's not like they went
  off Rannoch and started murdering organics on their own. This only happened when the Reapers started messing with them. So I guess the problem is again, aren't the Reapers creating the problem that the AI is saying they're solving? 
  
• There is no mention of the Reapers wiping out the cycle's existing synthetics during the harvest process so that the new cycle can start from a clean slate. Am I just supposed to assume that this happens? Otherwise, if the Reapers come along, harvest all the organics and leave, wouldn't there still be fully operational synthetics running around now ruling the galaxy? If the idea is that synthetics/organics are always in conflict, didn't you just give the synthetic team a leg up?
  
  • Resolved: In the final scene, the Catalyst tells you the Reapers harvest all advanced species (both organic and synthetic).
• Leviathan says the Reapers built the mass effect relays and the Citadel, to speed the cycles. But isn't the Citadel part of the Catalyst? At first I thought, ok, the Citadel is just where the Catalyst lives, but then in the end scene the AI kid literally tells Shepard “no, the Citadel is a part of me.” If this is true, then how did the Catalyst build the Reapers and then the Reapers build the Catalyst?
  
  • Resolved: The Citadel could be part of the Catalyst AI just as the Normandy (or Dr. Eva's body) is part of EDI. So basically, the Reapers could have been built by the AI, and then in turn built a "body" for the AI.
• Why does the AI suddenly decide his “solution won't work anymore?” He claims that Shepard standing there talking to him is proof of this but he can easily just kill Shepard and the cycle can continue as normal. Since this
  is what happens in the refuse ending, the AI's solution clearly does still work, right?
  
• On that note, why does the Catalyst get mad if you shoot at him? I didn't do this, but saw it happen on a YouTube clip and I was really surprised. He's an AI and and hologram right? Why would he ever be angry at you shooting at his holographic construct of a body? Also, do AI's get angry? I thought the whole point was that they were logical to a fault.
  
• Why would the AI willingly offer Shepard a chance to destroy the Reapers/Catalyst? Isn't the AI convinced that the harvest is necessary? In the same vein, why would the AI let you control it/the Reapers?
  
• How did the races build a power source (the Crucible) for a weapon (the Citadel) that they didn't even know was a weapon? Are we supposed to assume that some of the other previous races did know that the Citadel was a big weapon? 
  
• I really dislike the entire Crucible idea and because I don't understand how the Crucible/Citadel combo can 1) instantly kill all synthetics, 2) instantly alter the entire galaxy on a molecular level, or 3) turn Shepard into Reaper controller. I guess there's really no explanation for this though and I'm just supposed to accept it as just sci-fi science?
  
• Why does the Normandy land in the middle of a battle zone to pick up two squadmates? I know they're supposed to be injured, but... it seems like really terrible military tactics to risk an entire frigate for that.
  
• Why do your squadmates get on the ship?! They just spent a long time professing their dedication to
  you and the mission, and promising to fight to the death. I romanced Garrus and I guess it bugs me because this seems especially out of character for him. 
  
• Why is your LI getting ready to hang Shep's name on the memorial wall if there is some ambiguity as to if (s)he's alive or not? It seems strange that they would even entertain the idea that Shepard is dead until they actually get back to the Citadel to search. But we see the memorial scene before we see the Normandy leave the planet and before the breath scene even.

Edit: I'm (slowly) reading through all your responses and I'm going to update this OP to record which questions I feel have been resolved for me. Thanks for trying to help me out with all of this you guys!

Modifié par TheBorgPrincess, 02 mai 2013 - 01:22 .

[MyChemicalBromance]

For 3/4, check this thread. I tried to keep it as neutral as possible with regards to the endings. There's a perspective to the Reapers that isn't represented well in the games (but is represented in astrophysics).

Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 30 avril 2013 - 02:06 .

[xlegionx]

For number 3, yes it does seem like The Reapers are a form of the problem they're trying to solve. This is most likely just the result of bad, rushed writing. I wish I could explain it more.

For 11, it was better than the original teleporting squadmates phenomenon, where squadmates who were on the ground with you in London would appear on the Normandy after the crash. still an illogical scene, but no longer broken like it was before

for 13, they likely just had the ceremony for Anderson (a confirmed KIA) and maybe they had plaques prepared for everyone in case of misfortune. I don't know, it was cinematic, it worked for me

Welcome to the forums

[KingZayd]

1. I'm guessing they used their slaves?
2. The closest thing to a sensible answer I can think of, is the Leviathans became stupid over a ridiculously long time of having slaves do everything for them.
3+4. I agree.
5. I think it's safe to say that all the advanced races were being wiped out. Since the synthetics are already advanced, they'd be taken out too.
6+7+8+9+10:No idea. For 10, the only thing I can think of is the Leviathans. It's their way of winning their war against the Reapers without putting themselves at risk. Eventually even if takes billions of years, they should win.
11. I don't like it much either, but I consider the Starchild a much greater problem.
12. Because the EC had to make the ending more stupid. The game didn''t need an extended cut. It needed a cut. Specifically a cut of the Starchild.
13. See 12. Because they're VIPs, Shepard will even stop charging at the beam to get his friends escorted away, while all those grunts being wiped out in front of you are left to die.
14. Because apparently symbolism trumps logic.

[OdanUrr]

1. I don't remember, sorry.

2. They didn't. The Catalyst eventually interpreted that was the best way to achieve its purpose.

3. I'm presuming the Reapers preserve a species' DNA. Thus, they're "preserving life."

4. That bit was poorly explained. My interpretation is that there will always be conflict between organics and synthetics and the latter will eventually triumph over the former. To prevent civilizations from vanishing completely the Reapers come once in a while to harvest DNA. Allegedly, the Catalyst has had eons of evidence to reach this conclusion.

5. Yes, they wipe out synthetics also.

6. That part is confusing as hell. To my mind, the Crucible's designers intended to use the Citadel to distribute their "solution" all over the galaxy. Over time it might have been called "catalyst." The Crucible doesn't need Starkid to work.

7. I don't know. Perhaps it believes that someone finally building the Crucible is a sign that its solution is failing.

8. I don't know. Stupid primitives?

9. The AI is simply letting you know the score and your options. For some reason it acknowledges Shepard as the ultimate decision-maker.

10. The Citadel is simply used to distribute the solution, to my mind.

11. I don't know if it even qualifies as syfy.

12. Well, in the original cut, your mates were back in the SR2 out of the blue. The Normandy pick-up scene was added to explain that, thus creating more problems.

13. Because.

14. Because they tried to re-use the crash landing scene as a memorial scene also when that should have taken place on Earth some weeks later.

If you're interested, I have a couple of threads on the Crucible and the Catalyst on my sig.

Modifié par OdanUrr, 30 avril 2013 - 02:24 .

[rapscallioness]

lessee here:

1. I think they used thralls to make the AI, too.

2. yeah...idk. If I had been a Leviathan I just woulda made my thralls shackle the AI in the future. With my mind control capabilities.

3. Reapers are only harvesting the tech advanced races. So, all organics are not harvested. That's how humans dodged a bullet the last cycle. They were too primitive.

5. That's a damn good point......

8. Catalyst does drop the whole innocent kid thing, doesn't he? Scared the shyte outta me, "SO BE IT!"

9. It seems to be the AI doesn't really care, or rather is not emotionally involved. Although, w/the whole point #8--that is questionable. But generally it's thought that the AI is just fulfilling its mission. Giving the info you need.

11. Ah, yes---space magic.

12. Cuz....well, in the original ending squaddies you had w/you would just get disappeared. And end up on that jungle planet. Ppl said, "What? Wait..." So, in EC they squeezed in that particular bit.

14. Maybe they felt like there was no way Shep could have survived the blasts.

that's all i got *rapscallioness falls down exhausted*

I guess sometimes it's just best not to look too deeply into these things.

[MyChemicalBromance]

As for the others...
[quote]
Leviathans were unable to explore space/build ships/ build technology themselves right? (I'm basing
this off the linked codex entry and what you hear in the DLC.) That is why it was so important that they were able to “enthrall” land-based species? So then how did they build the AI in the first place?[/quote]                                            


That happened long after they'd taken to the stars. They probably had either learned from their thralls, or simply directed the thralls to build it.

[quote]
Why would Leviathans create a synthetic to kill other synthetics because they were afraid of the synthetics constantly rebelling and killing thrall species? The Leviathan you talk to makes it seem like they distrusted synthetics from the get-go, so creating an AI solution makes little sense to me. If you were concerned about this, wouldn't you not build any synthetics at all?  [/quote]

The Leviathans didn't create the intelligence to kill other synthetics; they created it to find a solution to the creator-created conflict.





[quote]
There is no mention of the Reapers wiping out the cycle's existing synthetics during the harvest process so that the new cycle can start from a clean slate. Am I just supposed to assume that this happens? Otherwise, if the Reapers come along, harvest all the organics and leave, wouldn't there still be fully operational synthetics running around now ruling the galaxy? If the idea is that synthetics/organics are always in conflict, didn't you just give the synthetic team a leg up?[/quote]

Legion (in Mass Effect 2) states that the Reapers seek to destroy the non-heretic Geth. While the Reapers don't harvest synthetics, it can be safely assumed that they're destroyed when evidence of their existence is removed (discussed more in Mass Effect 1).


[quote]
Leviathan says the Reapers built the mass effect relays and the Citadel, to speed the cycles. But isn't the Citadel part of the Catalyst? At first I thought, ok, the Citadel is just where the Catalyst lives, but then in the end scene the AI kid literally tells Shepard “no, the Citadel is a part of me.” If this is true, then how did the Catalyst build the Reapers and then the Reapers build the Catalyst?[/quote]

Leviathan (as far as I remember) only says that the Reapers built the Mass Relays.



[quote]
Why does the AI suddenly decide his “solution won't work anymore?” He claims that Shepard standing there talking to him is proof of this but he can easily just kill Shepard and the cycle can continue as normal. Since this
is what happens in the refuse ending, the AI's solution clearly does still work, right?[/quote]

The fact that the Crucible was built proved that the Reaper cycle could be broken. The Catalyst thinks and acts in terms of inevitabilities. See more on this in the thread I linked.


[quote]
On that note, why does the Catalyst get mad if you shoot at him? I didn't do this, but saw it happen on a YouTube clip and I was really surprised. He's an AI and and hologram right? Why would he ever be angry at you shooting at his holographic construct of a body? Also, do AI's get angry? I thought the whole point was that they were logical to a fault.[/quote]
This (a long with the entire refuse ending) was added with the Extended Cut. It doesn't make much sense, but people asked for the option to refuse the Catalyst. You get the same result if you refuse it with words.


[quote]
Why would the AI willingly offer Shepard a chance to destroy the Reapers/Catalyst? Isn't the AI convinced that the harvest is necessary? In the same vein, why would the AI let you control it/the Reapers?[/quote]

As you stated in an earlier questions, the Catalyst has determined that the Reapers won't work anymore. Thus, a new solution to the Created-Creator conflict must be found.


[quote]
How did the races build a power source (the Crucible) for a weapon (the Citadel) that they didn't even know was a weapon? Are we supposed to assume that some of the other previous races did know that the Citadel was a big weapon? [/quote]
 
The fact that it is a power source implies that the majority of the functionality (destroy, control, synthesis) comes from the Citadel itself, thus interfacing with it wouldn't be very "proprietary." It's likely the only unique thing about the crucible is the amount of energy it can generate.


[quote]
I really dislike the entire Crucible idea and because I don't understand how the Crucible/Citadel combo can 1) instantly kill all synthetics, 2) instantly alter the entire galaxy on a molecular level, or 3) turn Shepard into Reaper controller. I guess there's really no explanation for this though and I'm just supposed to accept it as just sci-fi science?[/quote]

There's been a lot of discussion on this, and there are no concrete answers. I tend to think all three are the result of the subatomic machines we see in the Synthesis EC ending, just tuned to different purposes.


[quote]
Why does the Normandy land in the middle of a battle zone to pick up two squadmates? I know they're supposed to be injured, but... it seems like really terrible military tactics to risk an entire frigate for that.[/quote]

That was added with the EC. People were complaining that, in the original ending, there was no reason why the squadmates who were with you at the beam should be on the Normandy at the end. This solves that problem, but introduces several others. In truth, it would have made a lot more sense for the Normandy to come down after Harbinger left, but that wouldn't have allowed for the "goodbye."


[quote]
Why do your squadmates get on the ship?! They just spent a long time professing their dedication to
you and the mission, and promising to fight to the death. I romanced Garrus and I guess it bugs me because this seems especially out of character for him.[/quote]

See above. 


[quote]
Why is your LI getting ready to hang Shep's name on the memorial wall if there is some ambiguity as to if (s)he's alive or not? It seems strange that they would even entertain the idea that Shepard is dead until they actually get back to the Citadel to search. But we see the memorial scene before we see the Normandy leave the planet and before the breath scene even. [/quote]

Good question. I suppose in Synthesis it's possible that they're aware of who is and who isn't synthesized. Otherwise they may have been informed (via the Normandy's QEC) by Earth as to what happened.

[Wayning_Star]

this poster has (possibly) been on here before.. this is looks like a rehash, written different, but still... just say'n


edited in deference to the OP, my probable bad. (it's why I posted the 'just say'n, but still, should digress with apologies.)

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 30 avril 2013 - 02:50 .

[Tron Mega]

Stupid is as stupid does.

Biowares mission statement

[TheBorgPrincess]

Wayning_Star:  

Are you referring to me? The OP? Because I literally JUST signed up for a forum account like, on Saturday.

I'd appreciate if you'd edit your comment if you do mean me because that is kind of mean to accuse me of and I don't want people thinking I'm just being annoying and reposting some old thread or something.

Modifié par TheBorgPrincess, 30 avril 2013 - 02:39 .

[OdanUrr]

TheBorgPrincess wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

this poster has been on here before.. this is a rehash, written different, but still... just say'n

 

Are you referring to me? The OP? Because I literally JUST signed up for a forum account like, on Saturday.

I'd appreciate if you'd edit your comment if you do mean me because that is kind of mean to accuse me of and I don't want people thinking I'm just being annoying and reposting some old thread or something.

Welcome to the BSN, where we mostly accuse people of things they could have done, might have done and didn't do. We also get lucky once in a while.

[AresKeith]

OdanUrr wrote...

TheBorgPrincess wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

this poster has been on here before.. this is a rehash, written different, but still... just say'n

 

Are you referring to me? The OP? Because I literally JUST signed up for a forum account like, on Saturday.

I'd appreciate if you'd edit your comment if you do mean me because that is kind of mean to accuse me of and I don't want people thinking I'm just being annoying and reposting some old thread or something.

Welcome to the BSN, where we mostly accuse people of things they could have done, might have done and didn't do. We also get lucky once in a while.

Today I got accused of not caring about EDI and the Geth just because I chose Destroy and not the others 

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

1. By using their thralls, the ones not creating other synthetics, or by designing the technology themselves. We don't know how dependent the Leviathan were, but we do know they were hyper-intelligent and had access to the best the galaxy had to offer. They were likely capable of creating the Catalyst themselves.

2. The Leviathan didn't create the Intelligence to destroy synthetics, but to mediate peace and bring synthetics under Leviathan control (the last bit is extrapolated). One of their defining traits is hubris, and as beings who quite nearly controlled a galaxy, they no doubt considered themselves "above" the problems of the lesser races. At the time, they saw no other alternative as their thralls kept building synthetics to "improve" themselves.

3. The Catalyst's mandate is to "preserve" life. Both the definitions of preserve and life were unspecified to it and, after its observance period, developed wholly different definitions from its creators. To the Catalyst, storing the genetic material, cultural/technological data, etc. of a species in Reaper form counts as preservation.

4. See above links.

5. Yes, this is to be assumed. There is no evidence of any lasting synthetics nor is there any indication that synthetics are left standing. In "cleaning up" after the Harvest, the Reapers destroy most if not all of the function equipment of the previous cycle, synthetics included (once again inferred from Reaper behavior).

6. The nature and definition of the Catalyst is fairly undefined. While the Catalyst was originally the Intelligence, it likely "transcended" into the Reaper Consensus upon the completion of Harbinger. Once the cycles were initiated, it was transferred to the Citadel and resided there for the rest of its existence (all of this is my interpretation). None of this is required to understand what the Catalyst, at its core, is, however. Just know that it resides on the Citadel, is the collective consciousness of the Reapers, and is capable of activating the Crucible, though that may be more a function of the Citadel itself.

7. By connecting the Crucible to the Citadel, Shepard has proven that the Reapers are truly fallible, that the cycles are unsustainable. His solution is no longer the ideal, as it was just foiled. Thus, he invites Shepard up to his "private chambers" and, since Shepard is the Paragon of organic life, allows him to create a new solution via the options presented. In short, the Catalyst accepts its inevitable defeat and allows the "worthy" organics to design a new solution.

8. From the perspective of the Catalyst, it's a metaphorical rejection of a new solution, leaving it with its unsustainable solution for at least one more cycle.

9. See number 7. The Catalyst is allowing Shepard to create a new solution through various means, though Shepard is in no way obligated to.

10. They did indeed know it was a weapon, just not the intricacies of its design or function. In short, they were building a gun knowing only that it worked somewhat like a crossbow, only it required an extra oomph (for the metaphor, gunpowder) to get it to work.

11. It targets Reaper code, and the only synthetics we know run on that modified code. I cannot justify the technological workings of synthesis. Shepard replaces the Catalyst and his control is broadcasted to Reapers everywhere. The formermost and lattermost fall under a reasonable suspension of disbelief, synthesis much less so.

12-14. Each of these deal with the emotional and character closure that was severely lacking in the original. Logical leaps, often large ones, were made to create the scenes. Ignore them if you so choose.

[OdanUrr]

AresKeith wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

TheBorgPrincess wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

this poster has been on here before.. this is a rehash, written different, but still... just say'n

 

Are you referring to me? The OP? Because I literally JUST signed up for a forum account like, on Saturday.

I'd appreciate if you'd edit your comment if you do mean me because that is kind of mean to accuse me of and I don't want people thinking I'm just being annoying and reposting some old thread or something.

Welcome to the BSN, where we mostly accuse people of things they could have done, might have done and didn't do. We also get lucky once in a while.

Today I got accused of not caring about EDI and the Geth just because I chose Destroy and not the others 

There's not caring and there's also having to live with the burden of your choice.

[Arturia Pendragon]

The answer to all your questions is quite simple: because the entire trilogy is a story being told to a child by a senile old man from what remains of his memory.

Thus all the plot holes, inconsistencies, and sudden thematic changes.

Fred Savage had it good compared to the Stargazer's victim.

Modifié par Arturia Pendragon, 30 avril 2013 - 02:49 .

[AresKeith]

OdanUrr wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

TheBorgPrincess wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

this poster has been on here before.. this is a rehash, written different, but still... just say'n

 

Are you referring to me? The OP? Because I literally JUST signed up for a forum account like, on Saturday.

I'd appreciate if you'd edit your comment if you do mean me because that is kind of mean to accuse me of and I don't want people thinking I'm just being annoying and reposting some old thread or something.

Welcome to the BSN, where we mostly accuse people of things they could have done, might have done and didn't do. We also get lucky once in a while.

Today I got accused of not caring about EDI and the Geth just because I chose Destroy and not the others 

There's not caring and there's also having to live with the burden of your choice.

They will be honored in the coming Empire

[Wolfva2]

I think it helps if you bear in mind that the Catalyst is just a computer program, and GIGO applies. The Leviathans programmed it with 'garbage in', because being a totalitarian slaver race with a MASSIVE ego problem, they couldn't think 'outside the box' if you will. They assumed that their knowledge...organics created synthetics which always killed organics thus stripping Leviathans of needed worship, was the ONLY data possible. Of course, there were other possibilities, but they didn't realize that.

[Wayning_Star]

TheBorgPrincess wrote...

Wayning_Star:  

Are you referring to me? The OP? Because I literally JUST signed up for a forum account like, on Saturday.

I'd appreciate if you'd edit your comment if you do mean me because that is kind of mean to accuse me of and I don't want people thinking I'm just being annoying and reposting some old thread or something.

edited to suit with comment.

[Archonsg]

I actually recommend playing the game in "Vanilla mode" (no DLC, no EC) first, then play it "with full toppings" and see where and what they did retcon / changed.

That Bioware is aware they made a bad mistake with the ending isn't a question, however instead of saying "Sorry guys, we fracked up, here's the EC, with a rewritten Endings minus all the illogical bits.." they went the "Okies, you guys didn't understand the ending..." and tried to make both the Leviathan and the EC explain / cover up that original *really* bad ending.

You also need to note that one of the key points presented in The Leviathan DLC, is that Reapers can be killed without even firing a single shot. It has an "off switch" that responds to the Leviathan signal/mental voodoo.

Ever wonder why the Alliance with the recovery of the Leviathan artifacts which in codex are used militarily, did not bother to find a way to copy and deploy it in ships / drones /delivery systems and take out Reaper forces?

The means for an unconventional military victory is right there.
We just weren't allowed to use them.

[Celtic man51]

I think i can answer these- 3,4,5,6,10,11,12,13

Let me start off by saying you aren't alone in this confusion. Alot of fans, new and old, didn't know what to make of the ending but some of us have pieced together information to make it clearer.

3. Harvesting as a solution. The catalyst's logic is a little faulty but the gist of it is organic will "transcend" into reaper form becoming the pinnacle of sentient existence. All the memories of the species along with it's technology, values and culture will become one being. While preserving this old civilization in a reaper shell new life can evolve from other worlds. This is what it thinks anyhow. Some have also interpreted that the catalyst is faulty and while it originally had a pure goal (peace between organics and synthetics) It "broke" somewhere along the way twisting it's original purpose into something terrible.

4. Again the catalyst is wrong in this assessment hinting that there is no real conflict or it is just a broken machine fulfilling a flawed purpose. In the catalyst's previous years a conflict arouse between organics and synthetics and it was asked to solve it. It's "solution" in it's eyes is helping but in reality its not.

5. As show in ME 1 synthetics are used as tools for the reapers. The Geth are easy to control by the reapers,but the reapers see them as weak(soverign says this in ME1), so it is assumed they are discarded after assisting them in harvesting.

6. The reapers used the citadel as a mass relay in early harvests. The Catalyst is a VI it can be put anywhere but it was put on the citadel to open the citadel relay in past cycles. The catalyst created the reapers not directly but they are under his control.

7. The Catalyst wants to work with shepard because it see that it's "solution" will not be strong enough to stop organics in the future. The crucible will be used at some point to destroy, control or synthesize the reapers even if its not Shepard.

9. The catalyst sees it's solution as flawed now that organic life can beat the reapers

10. Humans followed the plans laid out by the protheans. the citadel is the final component that allows the reapers to be destroyed but the reapers came through the citadel originally in previous cycles. Thus they were unable to finish the crucible and destroy the reapers.

11. Sadly yes this part is space magic destroy makes the most sense?maby ?

12./13. It was a way of explaining things not put into the original ending.

14. Shepard is alive. Your love interest similes hopefully and refuses to hang your name on the wall. The is different from control or synthesis where they actually put it on the wall. It is inplied that you and garrus will eventually be reunited. Althought this is never actually mentioned. do headcanon.

Hang in there its still a good series the last ten minutes are a bit rough. Hope this helps.

Modifié par Celtic man51, 30 avril 2013 - 03:03 .

[Wayning_Star]

OP, it's impossible to say what is what with your consternation without insisting on our bias toward another series of events that tailor our expectations with the endings choice. These would probably conflict you even more, or possibly insist on our version of any canon in the game.

The writers did it that way to promote cross talk amongst gamers/fans. As you post, it worked.. a bit too well?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The BSN is the last place you'd want to get answers from. Everyone here has their own interpretations and their own idea's.

It will probably dissolve into bickering and fighting. I can already see the rumblings of discontent now...

Pro-tip: Never, EVER listen to these two guys called Seival or Auld Wulf. They are literally insane.

If you destroy, Wulfie will call you a luddite who is not intelligent and hates life. Seival will simply claim you don't understand Mass Effect.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 30 avril 2013 - 02:59 .

[spirosz]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

The BSN is the last place you'd want to get answers from. Everyone here has their own interpretations and their own idea's.

That is actually a good thing.  It helps build up your own conclusion based on what others have experienced and maybe make you analyse your own thought process going into that answer. 

Modifié par spirosz, 30 avril 2013 - 03:02 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I've provided some answers to your questions the best I can. Trust me I'm not being flippant with my answers. I'm trying to make sense out of these situations for people. I've taken information provided in game an mixed stuff together and did various ass pulls with them which is more than what the BW writers did in most cases. It is called Bad Writing Theory. Some of these are quite entertaining. I shall begin.

Answer to #1: An intelligent land based life form ventured too close to deep ocean water on the Leviathan's home planet, and thus became the first thralls. Since you played Leviathan, you know how they can control minds. Nuff said. Shepard's plan is to bomb the planet to dust at first opportunity.

Answer to #2: The Leviathans aren't too intelligent. Arrogant? Yes. Intelligent? Not so much. Forgot a very important piece of code -- "Do not under any circumstances kill Leviathans, or cause Leviathans to be killed, or blah blah blah...." you get the picture.

Answer to #3: First of all there's the "Yo Dawg I heard you were going to make a bunch of synthetics that were going to wipe you out, so I made a bunch of synthetics to kill all of you before you made a bunch of synthetics that would wipe you out." MEME. This is basically the premise of the harvest in a nutshell. The reapers are a bunch of killer space robots that travel a lot faster than they say in the codex and possess space magic.

#4: You are correct, but because the "Intelligence" was created by a bunch of idiots it does not see that it is causing the very problem it is determined to stop. It seems that in each cycle just as Organics have turned the tide in their war against the synthetics and are decisively kicking the synthetics' proverbial asses, the reapers show up.

#5: The reapers use the cycle's synthetics as tools because the synthetics think "ooo reapers also synthetic, therefore friend" until the reapers are finished with the organics. Then the reapers turn and harvest the synthetics and make a destroyer out of them.

#6: This is kind of confusing. I think the thralls built the "Intelligence" inside of that spire that is in the middle. If you played ME1, that's the thing that Sovereign latched onto. There were also these big dreadnoughts that looked like reapers. They were probably operated by another AI connected to the Intelligence and controlled by it. Then when the Intelligence turned on its creators and made Harbinger, and a bunch more it used those ships to do that. Since space magic is involved and this happened so long ago I only have so much speculation I can do. Over time, there became more and more true reapers, and they kept adding onto the Citadel and built the relay system. There must have been a lot of those dreadnoughts.

#7: The Intelligence can't do anything. It is a hologram. I would have liked to have picked up the kid and jammed him in between the control rods and told him to "Control yourself." and create and infinite feedback loop that caused all the reapers to blow up, but that option wasn't available. The Intelligence ... wants you to pick Synthesis. It wants to try it again. It has tried it before but it failed. It is not something that can be forced. It can't force it, but you can.

#8: Got mad at him, eh? That's the big middle finger that BW put in there for us. See in the original ending game, a lot of us would routinely shoot the catalyst for a few minutes until we got "Critical Mission Failure" because all the endings sucked. They were all basically the same except for the color of the explosions on your screen: you died, the relays were destroyed, and the Normandy crashed. Funny =>

#9: I think there was some drug and alcohol use going on when the ending was being written. Basically the Catalyst has given up. You win. Sort of. You can destroy us, but hey before you do, check out these other deals I've got over here. There's this blue one where you can control us and be an all powerful god, or you can do this uber neat thingy called synthesis!! It's really really cool! I'd really be happy if you do that. (originally it showed Shepard taking a swan dive into the beam, but now it shows a Quarian without a mask talking to a geth). The downside is you die in both of those. Damn. I knew there was a catch.

#10 Some cycle came up with this idea way way way back, and they buried it in time capsules, beacons, archives, whatever for the next cycle to find. Just like the protheans did for us. In reality, the writers just made it up at the beginning of Mass Effect 3 because they couldn't figure out how to end the game. They didn't give us any hope at all of defeating the reapers without one. Anyone with a brain lost their brain. There were like three people with brains in the entire galaxy: Admiral Xen, Mordin, and The Illusive Man. Liara had an entire brain until they decided to give Samantha part of it so that Samantha wouldn't be Kelly Chambers version 2.0, thus making Liara appear to be an "ineffective Shadow Broker" -- yes the intel Samantha gives Shepard was originally supposed to come from Liara.

#11: The Crucible ending: join the club. I don't like it either, but I said it back at the end of ME2. BW wrote themselves into a corner and I didn't know how they were going to write themselves out of it. Well now we know... with a bad ending. Do yourself a favor. Get the Citadel DLC and play that as your real ending. Load your last autosave and play it. It is worth it. Just finish everything. Do the party last. When you finish you're done. It's the best DLC of the series.

Answer to Question 12: http://social.biowar...4710/1#16611320

13: Your squadmates leave you alone because the mission is fubared. They're going for plan B. Spreading Liara's time capsules throughout the galaxy in case you fail. They're getting out of there. Even Javik knows it's over. No one wants to stick around for the ending.

14. Mac Walters wouldn't let them write it any other way. Mac Walters refused to give the Destroy enders closure by having Shepard rescued. See Mac didn't want to have to write Shepard anymore. If Shepard got rescued, there would be a possibility that he would be forced to write another Shepard Mass Effect. That's why we got the crappy breath scene and the lack of closure.

I hope I answered your questions. I did my best to provide as many "ass pulls" as I could, because honestly you asked some good questions. And there are no good answers for them.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

spirosz wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

The BSN is the last place you'd want to get answers from. Everyone here has their own interpretations and their own idea's.

That is actually a good thing.  It helps build up your own conclusion based on what others have experienced and maybe make you analyse your own thought process going into that answer. 

I won't deny the benefits from this, but at the same time, at this point in time, I think it would just lead to the standard polarized infighting that we've been seeing here for a while now.