237 réponses à ce sujet

[Goneaviking]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

To answer your question...yes.

It is known that Asari can mate with any species without risk.

Quarians risk death by getting physically close with someone.

By that reason...it is absolutely more acceptable.

They risk illness, not death.

If it was such a risk to mate they'd have gone extinct before humans figured out how to use the Mass Relays.

[Xilizhra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and is frankly insulting if that is what you believe.

Well, the Cerberus logo isn't helping, quite frankly. I'm suspecting that you have a certain degree of prejudice that may just be subconscious.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and is frankly insulting if that is what you believe.

Well, the Cerberus logo isn't helping, quite frankly. I'm suspecting that you have a certain degree of prejudice that may just be subconscious.

But not all Cerberus Fans are Racist 

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and is frankly insulting if that is what you believe.

Well, the Cerberus logo isn't helping, quite frankly. I'm suspecting that you have a certain degree of prejudice that may just be subconscious.

That's kinda ignorant

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and is frankly insulting if that is what you believe.

Well, the Cerberus logo isn't helping, quite frankly. I'm suspecting that you have a certain degree of prejudice that may just be subconscious.

But not all Cerberus Fans are Racist 

Yeah! Some just really like unethical research!

(Very much joking)

[Argolas]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and it is frankly quite insulting if that is what you believe about me.

And I honestly don't give a damn about your judgement. It's going to be skewered against me no matter what I say.

Don't bother. Xilizhra is one of the masters of stereotype here on BSN. Not quite as insulting as Auld Wulf, but not too far from that.

[robertthebard]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and is frankly insulting if that is what you believe.

Well, the Cerberus logo isn't helping, quite frankly. I'm suspecting that you have a certain degree of prejudice that may just be subconscious.

But not all Cerberus Fans are Racist 

Yeah! Some just really like unethical research!

(Very much joking)

Uh huh, suuuuuuuuurrrrrreeeee.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Argolas wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and it is frankly quite insulting if that is what you believe about me.

And I honestly don't give a damn about your judgement. It's going to be skewered against me no matter what I say.

Don't bother. Xilizhra is one of the masters of stereotype here on BSN. Not quite as insulting as Auld Wulf, but not too far from that.

Hey hey it goes like this:

1.Auld Wulf
2.Seival
3.Auld Wulf
4. Xilizhra

Wulfie gets two spots to give his ego the room it needs.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 30 avril 2013 - 10:13 .

[Xilizhra]

Argolas wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and it is frankly quite insulting if that is what you believe about me.

And I honestly don't give a damn about your judgement. It's going to be skewered against me no matter what I say.

Don't bother. Xilizhra is one of the masters of stereotype here on BSN. Not quite as insulting as Auld Wulf, but not too far from that.

Allow me to clarify that I wasn't calling you an antisynthetic bigot (in fact, I explicitly pointed that out in one post, before you basically said that you were taking your ball and going home), but you were throwing people away far too quickly based on unfounded paranoia.

[Bleachrude]

It should be noted that the ME universe is one where the aliens find OTHER aliens attractive...which actually is kind of refreshing...

Both Trek and Wars, for example, there are a fair number of human+alien relationship but alien + alien is non-existent...(wait...I remember one. Ferengi and Bajoran) Always thought this was kind of arrogant of writers to have it so that only humans are attractive to aliens...

ME though, canonically, "everyone loves the asari" AND apparently, turians and quarians find each other attractive (Fleet and Flotilla, Valleygirl quarian & Friendzone turian) which for me actually makes it ok that humans can be attracted to other alien races...

[PMC65]

Argolas wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and it is frankly quite insulting if that is what you believe about me.

And I honestly don't give a damn about your judgement. It's going to be skewered against me no matter what I say.

Don't bother. Xilizhra is one of the masters of stereotype here on BSN. Not quite as insulting as Auld Wulf, but not too far from that.

The BSN ... the place where even gay people are called homophobic. I know, been there ... been called that. 

[Goneaviking]

tickle267 wrote...

Goneaviking wrote...

They risk illness, not death.

If it was such a risk to mate they'd have gone extinct before humans figured out how to use the Mass Relays.

yes but other quarians are probably going to be quite clean whereas other aliens, who don't wear sterile suits, are going to be relatively dirty, hence the likelihood of death (afterall tali had to do quite a bit before she could bang shep)

I remember when the swine flu was a really big concern for people, I got to work one morning with a runny nose from the smog and was sent home until I'd been checked out by a doctor to make sure I wasn't carrying it.

My friend basically dismissed the concerns because the people who died from it were pretty much the same people who always die from flu outbreaks and in about the same numbers. The old and infirm, and the very young. Basically those who were very vulnerable.

I'm guessing it's about the same with quarians. I don't think quarians risk death unless they're in a particuliarly frail condition by quarian standards. After all, what makes them sick is essentially allergic reactions not disease or bacteria.

What I took from those discussions with Tali was that she was taking extra vitamins so that the reactions wouldn't render her unfit for duty during the time it took her to build up an immunity, if there were ANY risk of death it would have been a ridiculously callous decision to take the romance to that level, and foolishly imprudent to risk a valued crewmember immediately before a vital mission.

The alternative option just seems unbelievably flawed from a story perspective, at least to me.

[Argolas]

PMC65 wrote...

The BSN ... the place where even gay people are called homophobic. I know, been there ... been called that. 

Why yes, you just ended the friendship with yourself, why wouldn't you discriminate against yourself as well?

[Steelcan]

@Grand Admiral Cheesecake.


I knew I had a good feeling about you.

[Xilizhra]

The BSN ... the place where even gay people are called homophobic. I know, been there ... been called that.

It's not impossible. And it's definitely not impossible for gay people to be transphobic; it's distressingly common in some areas.

[Argolas]

Xilizhra wrote...

The BSN ... the place where even gay people are called homophobic. I know, been there ... been called that.

It's not impossible. And it's definitely not impossible for gay people to be transphobic; it's distressingly common in some areas.

I have some literature for you: Muriel Spark - The Black Madonna. I read and interpreted it a couple of years ago. Might be worth your time.

I'll leave it at that.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
I'll need the conversation from the other person's perspective before I make a final judgment on this. Frankly, I find it odd that you're so vehemently unattracted to people who don't look like you while supposedly not being prejudiced against them. Preferences are one thing, but...

You are inducing a fallacy.

You are saying that since I am not physically attracted to aliens, I must be prejudiced against them as well as people.

That is not true, and is frankly insulting if that is what you believe.

Well, the Cerberus logo isn't helping, quite frankly. I'm suspecting that you have a certain degree of prejudice that may just be subconscious.

But not all Cerberus Fans are Racist 

Yeah! Some just really like unethical research!

(Very much joking)

:lol:^_^<_<

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'm a Cerberus fan, and I'm not a racist. At all. I am pro-human. Pro-human is not anti-alien.

I believe the alliance is to impotent by means of political opinion, public opinion, and too narrow ethics and morality, to really stand up for human interests in the galaxy.

I don't even want to talk about how bad the Council is. I think they are a burden on their own member species, not to mention the other races that don't get a say at all in galactic affairs.

Their voice is given less weight since they are not on the Council. I don't think that's fair.

I believe that Cerberus is a watch-dog group established to protect both human interests and to be a hidden deterrent to the unknown threats and dangers of the galaxy.

Very similar to Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand from Star Wars. A secret and covert group that, despite their shadier methods (which I certainly don't agree with), are as the name suggests: the guard dog to protect the galaxy from the unknown (the gates of hell and beyond).

[TheWerdna]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

S.A.K wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Well obviously Tali isn't ugly. And it's a good thing she isn't. I just think that all people who are saying "it doesn't matter how she looks like" quietly assume that she looks like a girl one can find beautiful. And that's a reasonable expectation.

Well you could always see enough through her mask to know she looks pretty human and not something like in those pics.

Yeah...she had a human-like face behind her mask in ME1.

In ME2...you get a clear view of her face profile during her loyalty mission.

I always wondered why people were so shocked that she was human looking in ME3.

Well, I think most of us assumed she would still have a few alienlike traits while still keeping to a somewhat humanlike appearence. Though personally, my problem was less of her canon appearence (which is okay IMO), but rather the execution (the fact that it was done with a freaken photoshop rather than an actual 3d model).

[Xilizhra]

I'm a Cerberus fan, and I'm not a racist. At all. I am pro-human. Pro-human is not anti-alien.

Not necessarily. However, to advance humanity at the expense of other species is anti-alien. Advancing humanity in a "rising tide lifts all boats" kind of way is not, but Cerberus rarely does this.

I believe the alliance is to impotent by means of political opinion, public opinion, and too narrow ethics and morality, to really stand up for human interests in the galaxy.

Ah, because it has ethics, and doesn't do things like kidnap children for biotic death camps? And even if the death camp part was rogue, the kidnapping was not.

Their voice is given less weight since they are not on the Council. I don't think that's fair.

They lack the numbers and power to shoulder the full burden that the Council governments labor under. The volus are an arguable exception, but giving them a vote would just double the turian one.

I believe that Cerberus is a watch-dog group established to protect both human interests and to be a hidden deterrent to the unknown threats and dangers of the galaxy.

That's what they said, but we all know what it became.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm a Cerberus fan, and I'm not a racist. At all. I am pro-human. Pro-human is not anti-alien.

I believe the alliance is to impotent by means of political opinion, public opinion, and too narrow ethics and morality, to really stand up for human interests in the galaxy.

I don't even want to talk about how bad the Council is. I think they are a burden on their own member species, not to mention the other races that don't get a say at all in galactic affairs.

Their voice is given less weight since they are not on the Council. I don't think that's fair.

I believe that Cerberus is a watch-dog group established to protect both human interests and to be a hidden deterrent to the unknown threats and dangers of the galaxy.

Very similar to Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand from Star Wars. A secret and covert group that, despite their shadier methods (which I certainly don't agree with), are as the name suggests: the guard dog to protect the galaxy from the unknown (the gates of hell and beyond).

YES!

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'm a Cerberus fan, and I'm not a racist. At all. I am pro-human. Pro-human is not anti-alien.

I believe the alliance is to impotent by means of political opinion, public opinion, and too narrow ethics and morality, to really stand up for human interests in the galaxy.

I don't even want to talk about how bad the Council is. I think they are a burden on their own member species, not to mention the other races that don't get a say at all in galactic affairs.

Their voice is given less weight since they are not on the Council. I don't think that's fair.

I believe that Cerberus is a watch-dog group established to protect both human interests and to be a hidden deterrent to the unknown threats and dangers of the galaxy.

Very similar to Grand Admiral Thrawn's Empire of the Hand from Star Wars. A secret and covert group that, despite their shadier methods (which I certainly don't agree with), are as the name suggests: the guard dog to protect the galaxy from the unknown (the gates of hell and beyond).

I like the comparison, but Cerberus is still a human-supremacist group at heart, all it is going to do is create hatred and distrust for humans among the other races, which we definitely don't need with the Reapers on our doorstep. That's why Thrawn got rid of the anti-alien nastiness in his Empire and tried to unite the galaxy in the first place.

I don't believe that Cerberus was ever a human supremacist group. I believe that the alliance fostered more hatred for aliens than Cerberus. TIM even tells Saren in the Evolutions comic to get his people ready. Do they attract racists and xenophobes? Yes, Miranda mentions as such. But so does the alliance. Ashley and Admiral Mikhailovich come to mind. More so, in fact simply due to the size of Cerberus. But that's not the entire organization. My Shepard certainly supports them. He's not racist or anti-alien at all. And when my Shepard reforms Cerberus with Miranda post-war, he will eliminate the anti-alien tendencies in his group, the alliance, and in the Council. They are anti-alien as well. Yes, not all species are prepared to shoulder the burden of responsiblity among the council or to protect the galaxy. But their voice is stifled nonetheless by them. I don't hold the Asari responsible, or the Turians, or the Salarians, or the Humans. I hold that against the Council and the leadership of the species. These other people lose their say because they don't have the power, and I think that's because the Council wants it that way.

I think Cerberus had flaws with TIM giving too high demands and not enough rules to keep his people in line. I consider his flaw as believing too greatly in the end justifying the means, so much so that he doesn't care what his subordinates do, or who they are provided they are willing and have the talent. I believe this is how they were corrupted by Reaper tech. I believe that the Reapers turned Cerberus's goals into a twisted parody of what they once were. I believe they turned TIM into a shell of his former self; a power-seeking controller who wants to put humanity on top. The Reapers have turned him into that. I believe he truly did have humanity's best interest in his views once, despite his methods. I don't view him as a saint or a godly visionary. I view him as a man, a flawed man, but a man who had an idea. It had its issues, but it was a step in the direction I think is necessary. 

So I view Cerberus as well intentioned extremists.

[Xilizhra]

And in my own galaxy, while I can't control small issues by my own rules, I'll stop any new attempted incarnations of Cerberus if they ever become large enough to be a major problem. It's a blemish on human history that has been thoroughly lanced, and lanced it will stay.