102 réponses à ce sujet

[StStephen909]

Mr. Gaider,



I am the one who started this post and was shocked to see one of your own posts inside this thread. I just wanted to say Thank you and Great job. I loved the books and the game so much. They really spoke to me and it was nice to see that some developers understand how much a good story means. I have read about this bs with the comments about your writing being "amateurish." And I just wanted to say you have serious fans who love your work and who are looking forward to what comes next. Thank you Thank you Thank you. dont stop writing.

[MprezdNZ]

Valcutio wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Colenda wrote...

Just coming back to apologise to the thread. I was being bloody stupid and I regret it. The books and game are much better than competent; I'm sorry for taking out a foul mood on one poster and on the DA novels.

Aww.....group hug eveyone! 

Check your pockets folks. Sloth is tricky that way.

I felt his hand in my pocket but he wasn't reaching for the change. 

What he stole once can never get back....

[MprezdNZ]

TyroneTasty wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Really, unless you are a paid, published writer or a professional editor/publisher, the extent of your literary critique (even if you are an English major) should probably stick to what you like or dislike about it and back carefully away from making sweeping statements like calling the lead writer at a major game studio and the published author of two successful books "amateurish."

You really shouldn't take stances like these, this is how people end up finding Transformers 2 enjoyable. They turn off the critical thinking part of their brain. Van Gogh only sold two paintings in his life but still most people today would consider him to have been quite knowledgeable about what makes a good painting. In all cases, talent, insight, and knowledge of craft all exist long before any money starts coming in.

Because you should critique everything in life? You have no room in your life for mindless fun? I pity you. I really do. 

[stankyswords]

david gaider kicks ass!!! period!

[axan22]

I think David's writing is on par with any other fantasy novel i have wrote and definately do not find it amateurish, i loved both books and obviously the game, and i really hope there are more novels out very soon.

[Apocalizz]

PatT2 wrote...

One thing annoys me more than simple, easy-to-read writing, and that's pompous, overblown writing that appears to be written only to impress. One can get so lost in ridiculous detail that it gets boring.
 

I know, I hate that too. "If I just make sentences so rediculous that nobody will understand them, it's just like I'm super smart!"

Edit: oh, and I think I'll definately try these books after I finish my current series.

Modifié par Apocalizz, 17 janvier 2010 - 01:33 .

[empetus]

I have not read the Dragon Age books for mainly the reason that I don't find the Dragon Age world all that interesting. Its been said that George R.R. Martin's Thrones series was a major inspiration and it shows in the plot. A lot of intrigue about who is going to be king and royal plots and so on, I just find this stuff boring. I didn't like Martin's book either. And I will be the first to admit that Martin is a brilliant writer.



Dragon Age also has too much of a medieval feel to it, there isn't enough of a magical fantasy atmosphere to the world. People tend to slag off on the Forgotten Realms world, but to me its a heck of a lot more interesting than Dragon Age's world. I also don't like the focus on religion in the game, I just think its dull. I guess I like a "lighter" type of world instead of everything being so heavy and overly melodramatic. I know it is supposed to be the cutting edge to make everything a shade of grey in rpgs now but I'm not a fan of this trend. Maybe in games having a black and white world where there is a definite good and a definite evil is not such a bad thing after all.



A side comment, when someone said people would like the DA books if they liked the movie Braveheart I blanched. I just watched that movie (I know - late to the party) and hated it. It was one of the worst movies I have seen in a long time.

[Dragon Age1103]

David Gaider wrote...

I really don't mind if someone considers my writing to be "amateurish", or whatever other adjectives they care to use. What matters to me is that the books have been well-received, and that many people appear to be enjoying them. Some people are always going to voice their opinion as if it's an objective fact, especially when it comes to evaluating literature or art -- ever hear of a critic? -- but so long as someone doesn't feel the need to have everyone agree with their own tastes I don't really see the issue. I certainly wouldn't be the first author to have someone hate his style.

And this is not to say my writing is perfect, by any means. I do need to improve, and I'm probably a harsher critic of my own work than anyone I know. Feedback is wonderful (and thank you to those who provide it), but if any writer was going to allow what someone else thinks of his style prevent him from putting his work out there there probably wouldn't be many books published.

I intend to keep writing. With any luck my verbs will eventually stop adverbing, too.

   First let me start with I do not do a lot of reading aside from magazines & web articles which is most likely very apparent from my grammar. I needed to say that b/c I am most likely very ignorant in the wide variety of writing styles so I do not know if what I am about to say is a well known style I am just unaware of?
   My absolute most favorite aspect of The Stolen Throne is the way you write as if it were a movie. What I mean by that is most books introduce characters through some quick summary of who they are from a narative stance. In your books we enter into a discussion that over the next few pages slowly reveals that persons name & title which feels much more real to me & like a movie as I said earlier. Now, at times this can get a little confusing for a moment to pick up on who is talking but I enjoy that it is not constantly "steve said -----with a ---look" back & forth with the names to identify characters. This only helps you to love the characters you have created b/c you quickly learn their personalities & grow accustom to how they act as a person. I just love that so much I can't even begin to describe it. I also like that this isn't for idiots but it's not a hard read either. You keep a native dialect without going into very heavy Old English like in the Tolkien books so I do not constantly have to research old terms or words & there meanings that have changed over the many years & that you can not simply self define through interpretation of the rest of the sentence.
    An example of the for idiots(maybe idiots is too harsh) part, would be 10,000 B.C. or the new Clash of the Titans movies(i think can't really confirm from the preview). There is action, decent characters & a good story but they just lose me b/c they fail to implement a native dialect. No "yes mi lord" or subtitles for some ancient tribal language. Instead we get natives, gods & ancient legendary warriors speaking current day english which just pulls me out of that world every single time they talk.
    I am only on chapter 7 of your first book Mr. Gaider but that is only b/c I fear completing both books & the game for a fourth time. I know eventually I will run out of content which just deeply saddens me. I love learning about this world you have created. I find it amazing you have so much details & so far almost all dates match up from game & book alike(do not know enough to confirm all  match yet). It's had to even fathom what you have done in such a short time.
   Tolkien worked his entire life or very close to on the LotR. He didn't do it for fame or money but out of pure joy. The love of the story...of the world he created from scratch that so many people still enjoy to this day. I hope you go down in history Mr.Gaider & your novels only become more popular. I bought The Calling(Stolen Throne was sold out ) for my cousin for xmas & she loved it so much. We've been discussing your world ever since. I would also like to see a book for Origins one day not just for the gamers but more for people like my cousin. Someone who reads fast & well but doesn't have time to spend 60+ hours on a game. I would love for her & others who only read to enjoy the story of Origin's as well.
    I hope you take the time to read this long response & thank you for the many times you have responded to me, I really appreciate that you take time to communicate with your fans. I can't tell you how much that means to me. Well I'm off to play some Dragon Age!!!

Modifié par Dragon Age1103, 17 janvier 2010 - 04:29 .

[PatT2]

I laughed heartily, *sneaky grin*, at Mr. Gaider's comment. Do! keep writing! It is said that writers write for themselves. If others enjoy it, all the better.

I am sensitive to the adverb thing because it was a criticism I had to endure in my college days, and later with an editor. It makes me more aware of that particular folly, as it is one I have a tendency toward.

I also enjoy dangling my participles. The delete key is a writer's best friend. But when one is writing to spec, it is not an easy task. It is a window into the mind of the writer, one they are generous enough to share. There are the expectations of the audience, the editor, the publisher, and one's self--the writer. There are the tools of the craft, the words. The sentences, the paragraphs, the ordering of thought. The taking out of the knife and cutting parts we don't want to cut. That might be the hardest. The parts we must leave out, even though we might love that part.

Writing is a difficult but sometimes rewarding endeavor for which one never gets paid what one is worth (at least in the beginning, if ever) and it is one where the author bares his soul to the public (depending on the material), and the critics come around and measure the end product according to whatever scale they use.

As readers, we look to be entertained, amused, or transported into another realm for the duration of the work. But as readers, we are not critics, and we do not all enjoy the same things, just as not all of us enjoy certain kinds of food or drink. It doesn't make that writing any less valuable or enjoyable to the audience that does enjoy that type of writing. When we, the reader, just slam the writer because we don't enjoy that type of style, we the reader are demonstrating our own ignorance, in a way. If we return to the food analogy, it would look like this: a person goes to an Italian restaurant and orders the linguine, which he hates, because he hates Italian food. And then he sets out to complain and slam the restaurant and the menu for not providing him with the salads or eggs and bacon that he does like. It's simple. There's nothing wrong with the restaurant or its menu or its cooks. There's something wrong with the guy who went to the restaurant expecting something it doesn't serve.

When I picked up Mr. Gaider's books, it was to get more involved in the story and background of Dragon Age. I was not looking to read A Tale of Two Cities or War and Peace (thank goodness). I did not want to be dragged down by 18th century or 19th century language and wade through allegory. I wanted a quick and entertaining read that gave me more insight on a fantasy world I have come to find interesting enough to spend hours playing in. The books did their job, and well.

Just remember, gentle reader, that when you insult and slam an author, you show yourself to be unkind. Authors and writers do have feelings, but they do grow thick skin thanks to all the critiques that they must endure. I have enjoyed the writing of this game, and of previous Bioware games, and the additional books. I think they hire solid talent and I hope they reward them as generously as they deserve. If these are David's first two books, I say he's well on his way to a very rewarding future. If only most of us could do so well.

I rest my case.

[Fexelea]

Rest you should because you are basing said "case" on a slew of assumptions that make it too reliant on a recurrency of strawmen.



Anyway, as the author himself can take criticism for what it is and deal with it appropriately, dragging on about what *you* think I intended to say or what *you* think that implies for the author just makes you too eager to defend a point nobody else is talking about.

[TomBrokaw]

As a writer, I will say that David Gaider's writing is not amateurish.

One might deem it unsophisticated or direct or too action oriented.  But these seem to stem from intent and not lack of training.

They are good books Mr. Gaider, and the choices you made are appropriate considering the context of the project.

[_Aine_]

When I read a book for pure enjoyment I want it to speak to me. Draw me into that world so that the real world dangles seemingly out of reach. Suspend my usual reality.



Perhaps it is just the lack of formality I have developed over the years but sometimes I think that the most powerful creation can be so because it does NOT follow every rule or submit to every construct of proper form or style. Why would it be known as style otherwise? If I wanted to read academia there is plenty of choice out there. Actually, I am "just that special kind of nerd" who *does* read and research for *fun* strictly out of interest at times, so I have no quarrel with either side... really.



Give me a good book and by the time I am done, I will not marvel at how well structured every sentence was, gasp in wonder at perfect adverb usage or wax poetic about how genius the construct of foreshadowing was carefully hidden in subtle prose. A good book lets me be a part of the narrative. Speaks the language of the time and place and maybe even (Maker strike me down) breaks a few rules. Of course, I also like red wine with cream sauces, sex before marriage and wearing white after Labour-Day. I know, may the Maker have mercy on my soul.



I'm enjoying the first book and have every intention of reading the next. Thanks for giving us all a fantasy world to get lost in for a while.

[PatT2]

Fexelea wrote...

Rest you should because you are basing said "case" on a slew of assumptions that make it too reliant on a recurrency of strawmen.

Anyway, as the author himself can take criticism for what it is and deal with it appropriately, dragging on about what *you* think I intended to say or what *you* think that implies for the author just makes you too eager to defend a point nobody else is talking about.

I wasn't even thinking about you. I was thinking about the topic. Why you think that it had anything to do with you...well... whatever.
As for strawmen, I would classify what I said more as how I felt about the topic, and I added a few analogies. Hardly strawmen, as I wasn't trying to argue. Too bad you took it as an argument.
Discussion boards are for discussions. they needn't be argumentative. And I wouldn't be so quick to take things personally.

[Fexelea]

As the topic, and your posting, seem to have focused on my choice of words, the logical following to your posted opinion is what I refer to in my post above.

If, for some unkown reason, you just happened upon the now infamous word to have a "case" to make, then my apologies; it seems the universe might indeed implode in 10 minutes from now, as 1 in x million chances do occur in the most unexpected places.

And assumptions, once more, are not conductive to constructive dialog: Have I mentioned an argument? Your inferences of my postings do not necesarily represent my implications.

[DariusTrue]

Fexelea wrote...

Oh, a grown-up! No surprise there. Keep it up David, I think this is going places.

To everyone else who went on predictive ad-hominems based on a series of assumptions regarding my post and the intentions behind it: read it again, and try to see if I was actually being high and mighty or I was saying "hey, I liked it, there is future in this. Here is what I think should improve to bring about extended work."
For the record, "amateurish" is most certainly not an insult and is the very least that you will get when you meet an editor/publisher for your first novel. It is a trade word, per se, and those of you out there trying to get something through must have heard much much worst with worst intentions added.

Why must forums always be so bellicose?

Really? Bellicose? Why do people so often feel the need to be immoderately magniloquent... <_<

[Fexelea]

Isn't the universe full of questions ne?

[StStephen909]

Mr. Gaider



What are the odds of seeing a Dragon Age novel in 2010? I have been so hungry for more Thedas that I have begun writing some of my own. They center around Duncan and Maric, of course, after The Calling. I would love to see some more material with those two characters. I read in the Dragon Wiki that you had a big hand in Duncan. Superb job. Maric and Duncan Kick Serious Darkspawn Ass! Thanks for the hard work, it shows, and we appreciate it.

[nksaint]

I thought "The Stolen Throne" flowed very well. As far as your writing style I am a fan. It is fluid, which MANY authors have issues with. However, if I can offer some criticism...The stories lack some stems of originality. I am not asking for a total, earth shattering event never seen in the realm of fantasy, but the ideas seems to all derive from other sources.



Not that it makes the novel any less enjoyable, it does leave it on the shelf after one read through though.

[Zenon]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
I just really have this probably with poor communication and the misuse of words.

Does that mean your writing is amatuerish? 

Do I get to have any semblance of self-esteem?

To answer your question - probably?

You will never write as well as this.

GASP! A true piece of art of staggering quality and unparalleled writing skills. Shakespeare is *WTFPWNED*

[Zenon]

On topic I'd like to say, that I enjoyed reading "The Stolen Throne" and consider buying and reading "The Calling" as well. I read (especially on amazon.de), that the German version was not so good. One reason was supposedly the bad translation. In fact this made me get the English original, since I became painfully aware of possible translation issues spoiling the text as "The Lord of the Rings" was published in a new and modernized translated version.

I'm interested in writing myself, but have no practice to write even a small novel at all yet. With my writing skills still to be put to the test and developed, I'm indeed interested in translating from English to German, even if I just start in a testing mode. I realize, that also a translator needs writing skills. Then again I consider it a bit easier, because the translator doesn't have to create the fictional setting and personalities of the characters or the plot itself.

[PatT2]

@ Fexelea .. oy vey! Indeed. A high probability of dark matter and black holes appearing in the next room within the hour. Okay, I did grasp on to the word you used. However, it was not a reflexion upon you. I was actually spurred to the keyboard by other, later posts (who also focused upon your word)!



The ad-hominem, straw man, etc. are all listed/classified as types of arguments, no? This is where I got the idea that you considered it so. If I misconstrued, forgive me.



I have no wish to argue or bandy about words. I was only attempting, in an apparently quite clumsy way, to both state my appreciation for a story, and my reasons for such appreciation, and my hopefully constructive criticism of same. It is unfortunate I linked it to the word first posited by you, dear writer. No offense was intended. Indeed, I believe I ought to offer my opinions far less often than I practice. Please forgive in the chivalrous style of the kindgom in which we find ourselves!

Yours graciously...

[DizzzyDevil]

well unlike most people here, I've never completely finished any book, much less more than a chapter. I've never been the 'reading' type of person.

But I am so proud to say that not only have I read both your books front to back, I actually am very much looking forward to more epic novels!

imho, there is no such thing as an "amateurish" writer / book / novel...
The MOST important factor is being able to capture your audience, keeping them hooked page after page. And when there's no more pages to read, they crave even more.

Mr. David, you're done the most awesome job in doing that.
You've skillfully converted a 'non-reader'

Much respect,
dizzzydevil
Singapore

Modifié par DizzzyDevil, 19 janvier 2010 - 06:02 .

[Erakleitos]

I'm reading The Stolen Throne, i bought the book (the books actually, i bought both) because i was curious about all the background stories and obviously because i love the game. Honestly i never read any fantasy book exception made for The Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion and The Hobbit, but i guess being overly descriptive should be a canon in fantasy books since then.



What i didn't liked too much is that i had the impression to read a screenplay rather than a novel. You don't have to guess anything while reading the book, everything is there, descripted in details, you don't have to worry about using your brain to figure out what's happening, or to guess what a certain character's opinion on something that's happening.



What instead i liked is how characters are shaped. No one is perfect, they have lots of doubts, they act impulsively... So they tend to be much more human and ... real let's say. This is why i like Alistair in the game. It's the same "Frodo" concept that made The Lord of the Rings a successful book.



PS: The italian translation is painful. They use english terms instead of italian ones, for instance Korcari Wilds should be translated with "Selve Korcari", same translation i found in the game, while they left "Korcari Wilds" in the book. It's kind of lame to read an english word inside an italian text, if the english term can be translated. It's not like reading "computer" or "mouse" which are english words accepted in our dictonary too... Not to mention the word "cappellania" they used to translate "chantry"... it's a literal translation, and not a semantic one.

[Sandtigress]

Stayed up late to finish The Calling last night, and loved it.



I think that The Calling far surpassed The Stolen Throne in writing - that might be because the pacing was easier to handle in Calling as it followed a single line of events instead of trying to cover a multi-year war though. Reading the Stolen Throne, I felt like it could have encompassed more than the one novel, though that might not necessarily have been a good thing. Having to skip multiple years is always awkward, and makes for some leaps in character dynamics, especially the development of the relationships between Maric, Loghain, and Rowan, I felt. Not that it was badly done at all or could have been done better given the scope of the novel, but the character lover in me would have liked to see more interplay and development there, especially with Maric and Loghain as best friends. I felt like we got to see the beginning of the relationship, and its decline in the end, but not the friendship at its peak. Plus, I want to know who would marry Loghain. :-P



The pacing in the Calling was excellent - I did not want to put it down. Character revelation was done nicely, I think, revealing little bits and pieces in ways that made sense as far as the narration was concerned. The one part of the Calling that bugged me was what I felt was at times a lack of motivation, especially concerning Genevieve and a particular Warden (so as not to spoil anything for those who haven't read it). I never really understood why Genevieve would take someone that few of the other Wardens liked, and who was so new to the company. Alistair in the party at Ostagar made sense, but this particular Warden was only around for the same amount of time, and yet gets to go on a mission of vital importance? I can see some possible reasons for taking him, but I would have liked to see more questioning of her choice from the others, especially at a critical moment where his actions cause some serious repercussions to a pair of Wardens (gosh, its hard to be specific while being vague!). Was she motivated by vengeance, a desire to keep him close on hand, the hopes that he might die on a suicide mission and complete what she couldn't do before, did she really think his skills were that valuable, did someone talk her into it, did anyone try to talk her out of it so that she just got stubborn, etc.? And again at the end, giving said Warden a high position in Ferelden felt a little contrived and unnatural, given how young he was and how recent a Warden. Given the amount of time between the book and the game, there would have been time to work his way up through the ranks, so to speak, which would have felt more natural to me.



Your ability to develop characters is terrific, they all have their flaws and their humanity, and you definitely don't suffer from the perfect character Mary Sue-itis like some authors do. I found myself liking Maric a great deal more than I originally thought I would - the games sort of paint him as a man I wouldn't like, especially with the insinuation that he gave his favors rather freely to women. So I feel that the novels are very important additions to the world lore, and have thus encouraged my DA:O playing friends to read them - made easier by the fact that I liked them very much!



I felt like the tone in the books was a little...juvenile. Not to say that your writing is juvenile, but that it was aimed for a younger (almost young adult) audience or for a less serious reading audience. Which is fine - not all gamers are serious readers, after all. Whether this was intentional or not doesn't really matter to me, but it might explain why some readers feel the works were "amateurish" in nature. To me, they felt like good early attempts at fiction, and since The Calling felt like a much better work than The Stolen Throne, I think you will have no worries if you decide to keep writing, in the DA universe or elsewhere.



Take the criticism and praise for what its worth - I just wanted to let you know that I, for one, really enjoyed the books, just as much as I enjoyed the game.

[Lea-Anne]

I love the books by the single fact that they use my favorite word in the universe "Twit". Plus I enjoyed the story and the writing style



I eagerly await more from the realm of Thedas.