221 réponses à ce sujet

[CosmicGnosis]

Even as a Renegade, Shepard is bent on destroying the Reapers. Destroy really is the most consistent ending. Control is strawmanned by an indoctrinated Illusive Man, and Synthesis is associated with the Reapers.

It's truly unfortunate that the other endings are not better represented. I want my Renegade Shepard to choose Control and become a tyrant, but I worry that it will feel out of character with her destructive tendencies and almost all of her dialogue expressing utter contempt for the Reapers. She is not even allowed to like the idea of Control.

[Steelcan]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Even as a Renegade, Shepard is bent on destroying the Reapers. Destroy really is the most consistent ending. Control is strawmanned by an indoctrinated Illusive Man, and Synthesis is associated with the Reapers.

It's truly unfortunate that the other endings are not better represented. I want my Renegade Shepard to choose Control and become a tyrant, but I worry that it will feel out of character with her destructive tendencies and almost all of her dialogue expressing utter contempt for the Reapers. She is not even allowed to like the idea of Control.

. No one is allowed to like Control.  And that's a hugr biggest complaint of mine for the game.

[Wayning_Star]

actually OP, destroy is a paragon option, no matter how 'bad' Shepard tends to display. Control is a bit less, but still paragon. The truly renegade option is either refuse or synthesis.

Think about it....

[robertthebard]

Wayning_Star wrote...

actually OP, destroy is a paragon option, no matter how 'bad' Shepard tends to display. Control is a bit less, but still paragon. The truly renegade option is either refuse or synthesis.

Think about it....

Having thought about it, despite the colors, nope.  None of them are Renegade or Paragon, they just are.  Not all choices have to revolve around one or the other.

[Argolas]

robertthebard wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

actually OP, destroy is a paragon option, no matter how 'bad' Shepard tends to display. Control is a bit less, but still paragon. The truly renegade option is either refuse or synthesis.

Think about it....

Having thought about it, despite the colors, nope.  None of them are Renegade or Paragon, they just are.  Not all choices have to revolve around one or the other.

Yes. The endings easily break that simple binary morality Mass Effect tries to apply to all almost all choices in the game.

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

This is why the endings are annoying if Control and Synthesis was elaborated on then Yes I would consider Control and Synthesis instead we have Control with my Fav Group who went all Sith empire crazy on us Cerberus and Synthesis......Saren?The Presidium Groundskeeper? Either way they are not shown in a good light like Destroy >.> I wanted to Pick Control for my FemShep then Synthesis for my MaleShep but it's like I'm indoctrinated to pick Destroy lmfao!

Modifié par IMNOTCRAZYiminsane, 30 avril 2013 - 04:37 .

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Wayning_Star wrote...

actually OP, destroy is a paragon option, no matter how 'bad' Shepard tends to display. Control is a bit less, but still paragon. The truly renegade option is either refuse or synthesis.

Think about it....

Isn't Destroy more Renegade with it's Kill the Few to save the Many Ruthless Calculus 

Control and synthiese is more Paragon with since Paragons seems like they want to save everyone and in that you do save everyone and kill yourself 

Refuse is a Renegade since some renegades don't like going with the enemy's plan  or something
Refuse was just there since people wanted a conventional victory but bioware didn't believe it was possible (I don't believe it was possible since it seemed impossible for the Galaxy to beat the Reapers without something) 

[robertthebard]

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

This is why the endings are annoying if Control and Synthesis was elaborated on then Yes I would consider Control and Synthesis instead we have Control with my Fav Group who went all Sith empire crazy on us Cerberus and Synthesis......Saren?The Presidium Groundskeeper? Either way they are not shown in a good light like Destroy >.> I wanted to Pick Control for my FemShep then Synthesis for my MaleShep but it's like I'm indoctrinated to pick Destroy lmfao!

I'll never understand the logic behind "Cerberus went all crazy in ME 3".  Other than being more aggressive than in 2, where we had to have the impression that they weren't all that bad, or to quote both TIM and Miranda "not as evil as you think"(which leaves lots of leeway to my way of thinking), they weren't all that different than they were in ME 1.  Let's see, assassinations/assassination attempts, check.  Weird science in the name of the advancement of Cerberus, er, humanity, check.  Check out your Sole Survivor Shepard, and the origin of the thresher maws that wiped out everybody but Shepard, oh yeah, Cerberus, you can, of course, verify this with Corporal Toombs in ME 1.  They have, since the first game, been a terrorist organization, even Jacob can verify this in dialog on the Normandy after you get started in ME 2.

So no, the "change" didn't take me by surprise at all.  There is nothing in ME 3 that isn't suggested in the prior two games.  Even the "rogue cell" argument falls flat, considering TIM had to have authorized the experiments on Jack, including the abduction of potential biotics for their experiments.  He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, but had "plausible deniability", which I didn't buy for a minute, obviously.

[AlanC9]

Argolas wrote...

Yes. The endings easily break that simple binary morality Mass Effect tries to apply to all almost all choices in the game.

Good thing too. P/R is an OK way to organize dialogue, but not the universe.

Modifié par AlanC9, 30 avril 2013 - 05:07 .

[Jukaga]

robertthebard wrote...

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

This is why the endings are annoying if Control and Synthesis was elaborated on then Yes I would consider Control and Synthesis instead we have Control with my Fav Group who went all Sith empire crazy on us Cerberus and Synthesis......Saren?The Presidium Groundskeeper? Either way they are not shown in a good light like Destroy >.> I wanted to Pick Control for my FemShep then Synthesis for my MaleShep but it's like I'm indoctrinated to pick Destroy lmfao!

I'll never understand the logic behind "Cerberus went all crazy in ME 3".  Other than being more aggressive than in 2, where we had to have the impression that they weren't all that bad, or to quote both TIM and Miranda "not as evil as you think"(which leaves lots of leeway to my way of thinking), they weren't all that different than they were in ME 1.  Let's see, assassinations/assassination attempts, check.  Weird science in the name of the advancement of Cerberus, er, humanity, check.  Check out your Sole Survivor Shepard, and the origin of the thresher maws that wiped out everybody but Shepard, oh yeah, Cerberus, you can, of course, verify this with Corporal Toombs in ME 1.  They have, since the first game, been a terrorist organization, even Jacob can verify this in dialog on the Normandy after you get started in ME 2.

So no, the "change" didn't take me by surprise at all.  There is nothing in ME 3 that isn't suggested in the prior two games.  Even the "rogue cell" argument falls flat, considering TIM had to have authorized the experiments on Jack, including the abduction of potential biotics for their experiments.  He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, but had "plausible deniability", which I didn't buy for a minute, obviously.

I agree about Cerberus. Really the only big disconnect with them is that they went from a shadow organization with some isolated secret research labs to full on Cobra! in a very short time. Their merchandising department has been busy, even the toilet paper in their facilities has the Cerberus logo on it. I think they made them too conventionally strong; I know we are told about their vast resources but they seem to have built a fleet that rivals the galactic powers and that leaves me scratching my head.

[robertthebard]

Jukaga wrote...

I agree about Cerberus. Really the only big disconnect with them is that they went from a shadow organization with some isolated secret research labs to full on Cobra! in a very short time. Their merchandising department has been busy, even the toilet paper in their facilities has the Cerberus logo on it. I think they made them too conventionally strong; I know we are told about their vast resources but they seem to have built a fleet that rivals the galactic powers and that leaves me scratching my head.

Even that is a misconception though, when you consider how much money they spent on the Lazarus DeM and on rebuilding the Normandy.

[Wayning_Star]

Isn't renegade about choosing the opposite of the many? How many choose synthesis compared to those who profess otherwise?

If you consider the argument for destroy and the confrontations over the time here on the BSN, in that reference, then renegade is doing just the opposite of the norm, or the status quo. No matter what the cost or investment.

Refuse you tell the entire MEU and catalyst to go... well you know..

Synthesis you tell mother nature to back off as you alter it to the molecular level and all concerned, just to stop the reaper threat, for a longer period of time, with out anyone's permission. Sure you save a few more that way, but you sacrifice more in terms of your determination to be an individual, not take orders or be coerced, like with other choices short of refuse. Refuse is the ultimate in renegade, you simply shut down any aspect of civilized concern for the present, walk away, not caring, or shielded by decision of rejection of that reality. Synthesis is to alter reality to fit your decision, down to the last molecule, if that is what, indeed, synthesis is. You really don't worry about it as it's not relevant. It is merely on your choices menu and has the most potential for success. Ends justifies the means, but with a total renegade, justification is mostly head canon anyway. Cold calculation, not goodie two shoes 'sacrifices' etc. By the time Shepard makes it to the choices, is pretty much over the niceties, no worry about 'surviving', probably dead already, been there done that. Got this computerized mistaken identity telling them that it's all up to him/her. Faced with more uncertainties, a robot who really doesn't care, a universe of needy, wanting personalities, all up in your face. Anderson all shot up and dying as well, TIM all fried out and demanding 'stuff' then lashes out..and the beam smack dab in front of you...all those out side getting hammered.. no pressure, but that chance of putting your mark on the universe for one last hurrah, a sign.. stating: Commander Shepard was here...

The universe is in for some changes? Well Duh.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The best ending of all is to play without the EC loaded and to absolutely decimate Mac Walters' "art". Just do the main story line. Do none of the side quests. Play no multiplayer. Don't cure the genophage. Rewrite the heretics, and side with the Quarians, OR destroy the heretics and side with the Geth. It is beautiful. Make sure Leviathan and Omega are not loaded. You don't want the war assets.

Alternatively you could give the Collector Base to the Illusive Man. This slams the door on Destroy and opens the door for a Low EMS Control which is completely awesome. It is a complete fail. The Harvest Continues. The Normandy Crashes and No One Gets Out.

You must not do any side quests at all.
You must not cure the genophage with Wrex in charge (do not fake it with Wreav - don't cure it period)
You must side with the smaller of the two sides on Rannoch
Do no planet scanning.
Do the bare minimum.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 30 avril 2013 - 05:38 .

[Aaleel]

I don't think any of the ending have alignments, but if Destroy is anything it's Paragon.

Destroying the collector base is a Paragon choice, and with low EMS the only option you get if you destroyed the base is Destroy, so the tie to ME3 is paragon and destroy. Whereas keeping the base is renegade and that ties to Control in ME3.

Just sayin'

[Solaxe]

There's no paragon/renegade ending. It all depends on your pov.

For example, One can  think that destroy is "renegade", because it provides temporary, easy mode solution and is very close-minded.

Synthesis and paragon control provide true peace and chance for changes. They are a bit controversial though. Shepard also sacrifices himself/herself, which is truly heroic. Renegade would never do that.

Refuse... is disgusting, pure evil.

Aaleel wrote...

I don't think any of the ending have alignments, but if Destroy is anything it's Paragon.

Destroying the collector base is a Paragon choice, and with low EMS the only option you get if you destroyed the base is Destroy, so the tie to ME3 is paragon and destroy. Whereas keeping the base is renegade and that ties to Control in ME3. 

Just sayin'

low EMS destroy ends up with whole Galaxy turned into pile of ashes. Very paragon.

Modifié par Solaxe, 30 avril 2013 - 05:38 .

[Yestare7]

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Even as a Renegade, Shepard is bent on destroying the Reapers. Destroy really is the most consistent ending. Control is strawmanned by an indoctrinated Illusive Man, and Synthesis is associated with the Reapers.

I like you.

[Samtheman63]

he make sense yes

[dreamgazer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The best ending of all is to play without the EC loaded and to absolutely decimate Mac Walters' "art". Just do the main story line. Do none of the side quests. Play no multiplayer. Don't cure the genophage. Rewrite the heretics, and side with the Quarians, OR destroy the heretics and side with the Geth. It is beautiful. Make sure Leviathan and Omega are not loaded. You don't want the war assets.

Alternatively you could give the Collector Base to the Illusive Man. This slams the door on Destroy and opens the door for a Low EMS Control which is completely awesome. It is a complete fail. The Harvest Continues. The Normandy Crashes and No One Gets Out.

You must not do any side quests at all.
You must not cure the genophage with Wrex in charge (do not fake it with Wreav - don't cure it period)
You must side with the smaller of the two sides on Rannoch
Do no planet scanning.
Do the bare minimum.

... I thought people had an issue with the ending being too "grimdark".

[Enhanced]

In all 3 games, the options that directly ruins the most lives and/or causes the most damage is always Renegade. Destroy does both.

Modifié par Enhanced, 30 avril 2013 - 06:15 .

[HunterSho21]

I think the Destroy option sucks. You spend all this time uniting the Geth and Quarians and then you just kill the Geth? Stupid. Not to mention killing EDI. A big theme in ME3 is whether AI is a forum of life. The destroy ending just negates that.

[Wayning_Star]

Shepard is human and has the instinct to devolve if necessary to 'carry out' stuff. By the time it gets to the choices. Shepard has no choices. Renegade Shepard has only one thing to do left to them, if not permitting paragon virtues and idealistic thought processes hinder. The best that can be done, with the most bang for the buck, the renegade impulse to be victorious, more than rationalization or presenting observations to the citadel council. The only choice that can change the equation...equalize the playing field, and possibly make technology, intelligent as it might be, accepted in the MEU as needed by all concerned. The "Mission" is?

that two hundred penny question. How to win AND destroy the reaper threat. Give peace and possibly stupid Edi a chance? (she actually WANT'S to be human? ooh boy..)

[CaptainCommander]

I think the only really renegade one if Synthesis because its basically forcing a will of the Reapers and Shepard on the Galaxy. No choice by anyone just change all life in the milky way! All 1 billion stars!

[Samtheman63]

Wayning_Star wrote...

actually OP, destroy is a paragon option, no matter how 'bad' Shepard tends to display. Control is a bit less, but still paragon. The truly renegade option is either refuse or synthesis.

Think about it....

not for me, renegade is about getting the job done no matter the cost.  that job is to destroy the reapers, a renegade just wouldn't think twice about picking destroy or dwell on the destruction of geth/EDI.

think of renegades as badasses, not morons who want to control reapers or synthesize the entire galaxy based on the advice of an indoctrinated terrorist leader or the catalyst, both of which are basically the reapers - the ones you are trying to defeat.

Modifié par Samtheman63, 30 avril 2013 - 06:05 .

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

HunterSho21 wrote...

I think the Destroy option sucks. You spend all this time uniting the Geth and Quarians and then you just kill the Geth? Stupid. Not to mention killing EDI. A big theme in ME3 is whether AI is a forum of life. The destroy ending just negates that.

I agree with you about killing off the Geth after going though all the trouble uniting them and the Qurians :pinched:Lolz one of the things that upset me in the game though is AI is a form of life yet thay have to be humanlike and have 'souls' to be 'alive' <_<

[KaiserShep]

HunterSho21 wrote...

I think the Destroy option sucks. You spend all this time uniting the Geth and Quarians and then you just kill the Geth? Stupid. Not to mention killing EDI. A big theme in ME3 is whether AI is a forum of life. The destroy ending just negates that.

I guess it really boils down to how badly you want the reapers to simply stop existing.