221 réponses à ce sujet

[KENNY4753]

almost everything we do is 'playing God' so I guess poor choice of words on my part whether curing the genophage or rewriting dna.

I never said the is 100 percent proof that my view of control is correct but using the same flawed logic as the catalyst (crucible will not discriminte) the Geth should be afftect. In my first post I said should also. I never said it definitely happens

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Jukaga wrote...

Rogue not rouge.

Rouge is french for the color red.

The only one that bothers me more is 'Emporer' and you see that everywhere.

For christ's sakes... read a book internet people.

Solirusey a psoern msliepseld a wrod wonrg and yrou mad?  if you can udsetrnad waht the wdors are why msut you be uepst if it's wnorg? 

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, Xilizhra, do you sacrifice the brigades? It is a very similar situation. If you do not sacrifice the brigades, you are not fit for command. It is a tough call and one that no one in command would ever make lightly.

* No one gave me the right to tinker with nature. Nature evolves on its own in its own time. We are part of it. Without nature we would not exist. I will not play God over where I came from. The idea of synthesis is stupid.
* Control the reapers? No one person should have that much power.
* Synthetics are our creation made of metal, semiconductors, and programmed with logic and simulated responses. Without us synthetics would not exist.
* I will not leave the reapers around at the end of the story. They have no redeeming qualities. If that means sacrificing the synthetics races we created then so be it. It ends the nightmare. In my story no one will know the details of what went on in the decision chamber. On rescue her first question will be: did we win? Her second question will be: where is Liara?

300,000 Batarians were sacrificed to slow the reaper invasion. Was that any less of a genocide by the BSN definition? Apparently so because they were organics, and they were Batarian. But since Shepard is going to Hell anyway, what's a few billion software programs compared to about almost 100 billion living breathing advanced organics?

[remydat]

Shotgun,

Humans tinker with nature all the time or do you not take medicine instead of letting nature kill you when you are sick?

The entire Batarian race was not sacrificed. If that was the choice then I would not sacrifice an entire species because the galaxy and mainly the idiot council failed to prepare for the Reapers especially when the Batarians don't actually follow the idiot council.

If the Galaxy collectively failed to prepare for the Reapers mainly because of the idiot council then that is a burden the ENTIRE galaxy should bare and not just the Batarians simply because they had the misfortune of being near where the Reapers invaded.

[remydat]

KENNY4753 wrote...

almost everything we do is 'playing God' so I guess poor choice of words on my part whether curing the genophage or rewriting dna.

I never said the is 100 percent proof that my view of control is correct but using the same flawed logic as the catalyst (crucible will not discriminte) the Geth should be afftect. In my first post I said should also. I never said it definitely happens

That is fine.  All I was saying is every choice is playing god and every choice is uncertain from the the perspective of Shep.  How you choose to deal with that choice and uncertainty is up to the individual.

[David7204]

The Council members are not 'idiots' for not preparing for the Reapers. Frankly, it would be ridiculous if they did.

[Megaton_Hope]

I can't see a Renegade using "Control," as written, because that requires Shepard to knowingly sacrifice his life, and I feel that a Renegade Shepard would not do that, even to achieve his goals. If it didn't entail the physical destruction of Shepard's body, that would be something else.

Davidnumbers wrote...
The Council members are not 'idiots' for not preparing for the Reapers. Frankly, it would be ridiculous if they did.

After the Battle of the Citadel, they'd be idiots not to prepare. Prepare for a more powerful and aggressive "Geth" threat than they've ever seen, maybe, but prepare. They almost died in an attack that only one highly placed and completely disregarded agent was able to predict! Clearly things are going wrong in Planningspace.

Modifié par Megaton_Hope, 01 mai 2013 - 01:23 .

[David7204]

I don't know about that. If a Renegade Shepard was simply selfish, he could have a much more indulgent life doing something besides saving the galaxy.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

The Council members are not 'idiots' for not preparing for the Reapers. Frankly, it would be ridiculous if they did.

After ME1 they knew Sovereign was a Reaper, in ME2 they act like nothing really happen, and in ME3 it bites them in the ass

So they would be idiots, but its always a matter of opinion

[David7204]

Tell me, what exactly do you think Congress should do in such a situation if they knew an extinction event was coming but the public didn't? And for the sake of argument, let's assume they're unanimous.

(I hope you're American. If not, just replace Congress with whoever the decision making body in your government is)

Modifié par David7204, 01 mai 2013 - 01:26 .

[remydat]

David7204 wrote...

The Council members are not 'idiots' for not preparing for the Reapers. Frankly, it would be ridiculous if they did.

In a world where AIs exist, having the dude who just saved your a** tell you about the Reaper threat and you ignoring it makes you an idiot.  You made him a Spectre for a reason.

Modifié par remydat, 01 mai 2013 - 01:29 .

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Megaton_Hope wrote...

I can't see a Renegade using "Control," as written, because that requires Shepard to knowingly sacrifice his life, and I feel that a Renegade Shepard would not do that, even to achieve his goals. If it didn't entail the physical destruction of Shepard's body, that would be something else.

My Renegade Shepard wasn't selfish she would have sacrifice (not gladly though) her life for the Galaxy but when your given the choice to destroy,be a hipocrite, or play God without good proof then destroy looks like some good cake she wants to eat.

Renegade Shepards are more likely to get things done even if it results in peoples death, at least that's how I headcanon my shepard 

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Tell me, what exactly do you think Congress should do in such a situation if they knew an extinction event was coming but the public didn't? And for the sake of argument, let's assume they're unanimous.

(I hope you're American. If not, just replace Congress with whoever the decision making body in your government is)

Yes I am American, and I still find it stupid that just because you don't want the public to panic your not gonna try to prepare and find something that would help you. And then act like the situation is over

[David7204]

remydat wrote...

In a world where AIs exist, having the dude who just saved your a** tell you about the Reaper threat and you ignoring it makes you an idiot.  You made him a Spectre for a reason.

Is this also a world where dreadnoughts grow on trees and everyone else gleefully nods and smiles in eagerness to contribute when you tell them the Reapers are coming, just because you say so? Because that certainly seems to be the world you're talking about.

Modifié par David7204, 01 mai 2013 - 01:34 .

[robertthebard]

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

investers Control Cerberus Money 

TIM

No I linked you to prove that the place went Rouge and did things by their means and disobeyed TIM actions resulting in Jack

Maybe, but again I said "They are Hursh" they want to better humanity in hursh ways said this multiple times so yes maybe they did

"Clearly you are a mistake" can be anything it can be what you see it as TIM behind the whole thing or it can be a Horrible insult to Jack do not forget Miranda HATES Jacks its almost like someone saying "Your a mistake" to a sibling because they Hate them unitl you give me edvidence it's an insult to me and something TIM is hiding for you

Miranda knows alot about Cerberus but it was for Humanity this is why in ME3 she didn't want to work with them anymore because it changed from Humanity to ControlTIM 

And I Love kool-aid  "YEHHHHH"

The link i showed you clearly state they went rouge I am Sorry that i couldn't find a better one, it was stupid when they cut it off,  I was Lazy to look for a better one but i can if you want me to 

The Log says "The Illusive Man is requesting operation logs again. He's Getting Suspiscious"
"When he get's results he wont care what we did, But if he knew..."
"He wont find out"

Then we finish the mission and we get this 

From: Cerberus Intel

Commander Shepard,

Contacting you per Illusive Man's instructions. He believed you would want to know that he had ordered Subject Zero's project shut down before the riot broke out. Cerberus personnel arrived to find all guards dead, along with most of the subjects. Any surviving children were treated for injuries, given mild amnesic treatments, and delivered to Alliance facilities as survivors of slaver attacks. A few surviving doctors were forcibly retired for their role in the project.

Per your report, the facility on Pragia has been destroyed.

It's not like TIM said "By the Way before you go on the mission we didn't do it"

He or w/e told us after the mission was complete and there was edvidence He didn't know about it!

Seriously Yes maybe he was shuting it down because they were not getting results or maybe Yes he saw unethtical research going on.....The main problem was he did NOT know about what was going on with the kids and Jack until he finally sent someone there 

By that message do you really think they were hiding pit fights from TIM i mean REALLY!? 

And yes Maybe your right about TIM not caring if he killed a FEW to better Humanity but it's not like he's batcrap crazy like he was in ME3

and again 

Besides the fact you don't like Cerberus show me where in game TIM was behind everything that went on with Jack 

Firstly, TIM controls Cerberus money, per Miranda in the first talk on the Normandy.
Second, a guy that does this has problems with unethical experiments?  As I said, there is nothing in ME 3 that's out of character for Cerberus from ME 1.  29:00  Barring, as I said, that they seem a bit more aggressive, but that's probably due in part to the Reapers controlling him.  He's been on the bandwagon for unethical experiments since we find out about Cerberus in ME 1.

Modifié par robertthebard, 01 mai 2013 - 01:35 .

[David7204]

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Tell me, what exactly do you think Congress should do in such a situation if they knew an extinction event was coming but the public didn't? And for the sake of argument, let's assume they're unanimous.

(I hope you're American. If not, just replace Congress with whoever the decision making body in your government is)

Yes I am American, and I still find it stupid that just because you don't want the public to panic your not gonna try to prepare and find something that would help you. And then act like the situation is over

That's very nice. So what should they do?

[remydat]

David7204 wrote...

Is this also a world where dreadnoughts grow on trees and everyone else gleefully nods and smiles in eagerness to contribute when you tell them the Reapers are coming, just because you say so? Because that certainly seems to be the world you're talking about.

Not sure how this is relevant.  So because other people were idiots as well and did not prepare that absolves the Council for being idiots?  The Council elected itself as the caretakers of the Galaxy.  They made Shep a spectre.  He just saved their a**es and told them who the real threat was.  Willfully ignoring it is plain stupidity.

[Megaton_Hope]

Y'ask me, the Renegade/Paragon split is over altruism on the one hand and expedience/self-interest on the other. While a person miiiight see "Control" as a means to an end, the part where you reduce your body to a jet of plasma makes it kind of tricky achieving any goals that way.

Now if Congress knew that a race of killer robots were coming to kill them, and they had already nearly succeeded, and there were only three Congressmen representing all the galaxy, I'd expect Defense spending to go through the roof. Dreadnoughts with Thanix cannons and Silaris armor out the wazzoo.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Tell me, what exactly do you think Congress should do in such a situation if they knew an extinction event was coming but the public didn't? And for the sake of argument, let's assume they're unanimous.

(I hope you're American. If not, just replace Congress with whoever the decision making body in your government is)

Yes I am American, and I still find it stupid that just because you don't want the public to panic your not gonna try to prepare and find something that would help you. And then act like the situation is over

That's very nice. So what should they do?

Other than getting their fleets prepared and trying to search to a way to help them, not really sure

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

remydat wrote...

Shotgun,

Humans tinker with nature all the time or do you not take medicine instead of letting nature kill you when you are sick?

The entire Batarian race was not sacrificed. If that was the choice then I would not sacrifice an entire species because the galaxy and mainly the idiot council failed to prepare for the Reapers especially when the Batarians don't actually follow the idiot council.

If the Galaxy collectively failed to prepare for the Reapers mainly because of the idiot council then that is a burden the ENTIRE galaxy should bare and not just the Batarians simply because they had the misfortune of being near where the Reapers invaded.

Okay....

A synthie tactic ... let's take "tinkering" to the extreme by including modern medicine in it when the poster was talking about stuff like perhaps genetically altering the entire galaxy at the molecular level as in the synthesis ending.  <_< Knock it off.

No one gave me the right to wholesale change the laws of organic chemistry.... You know what? Synthesis is just f***ing stupid. That's the bottom line. It makes no goddamn sense. You're changing crap on the sub atomic particle level. It is changing the laws of organic and inorganic chemistry, .,... screw it. It is f****** stupid. Idiotic. It absolutely ruins nature the way we know it.

The Catalyst is either a fracking moron or an evil genius with the emphasis on evil. It has come up with a perfect solution: getting rid of you, and getting rid of organic life right from the beginning, and getting rid of synthetic life as well. So now it no longer has to worry about preserving organic life. It can finally take that vacation to Florida and soak its glowy feet in the sand and watch the glowy sand fleas come out at night, and watch green glowy sharks come in close to shore to feed. And you're dead. Some deal. It's stupid.

EDIT: if the sharks feed at all anymore. Perhaps they interface with the lifeforms they used to eat. How the hell should I know. It's stupid!

And hey, nice sidestep there. I've noticed that among synthies. They're really good at sidestepping issues. So did you commit genocide on those 300,000 Batarians? Yes or No? I'm going to use the BSN definition, just warning you.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 01 mai 2013 - 01:45 .

[David7204]

I think you might have misunderstood the exercise. We're pretending that Congress knows about some sort of threat that the public doesn't. Not in the future, but right now. Today. Not the Reapers, but certainly something very powerful and dangerous that will wipe America out. Basically a weaker version of the Reapers, I guess, scaled down to harvest America instead of the galaxy. Yeah. You get the idea.

That's what I'm asking. So what do they do in that situation?

[David7204]

remydat wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Is this also a world where dreadnoughts grow on trees and everyone else gleefully nods and smiles in eagerness to contribute when you tell them the Reapers are coming, just because you say so? Because that certainly seems to be the world you're talking about.

Not sure how this is relevant.  So because other people were idiots as well and did not prepare that absolves the Council for being idiots?  The Council elected itself as the caretakers of the Galaxy.  They made Shep a spectre.  He just saved their a**es and told them who the real threat was.  Willfully ignoring it is plain stupidity.

Maybe you should consider that the Council doesn't have the ability to create massive fleets by snapping their fingers.

[Xilizhra]

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, Xilizhra, do you sacrifice the brigades? It is a very similar situation. If you do not sacrifice the brigades, you are not fit for command. It is a tough call and one that no one in command would ever make lightly.

It bears no relevance to the ending, which is why I'm waiting for you to give me a better analogy.

* No one gave me the right to tinker with nature. Nature evolves on its own in its own time. We are part of it. Without nature we would not exist. I will not play God over where I came from. The idea of synthesis is stupid.
* Control the reapers? No one person should have that much power.
* Synthetics are our creation made of metal, semiconductors, and programmed with logic and simulated responses. Without us synthetics would not exist.
* I will not leave the reapers around at the end of the story. They have no redeeming qualities. If that means sacrificing the synthetics races we created then so be it. It ends the nightmare. In my story no one will know the details of what went on in the decision chamber. On rescue her first question will be: did we win? Her second question will be: where is Liara?

Emotional appeals with little logical basis, pretty much universally. Especially because I have no idea why your axiom of "no one should have that much power" is more important than "genocide is bad," assuming you even believe the latter (which, given your Rannoch atrocitiy, you may not).

300,000 Batarians were sacrificed to slow the reaper invasion. Was that any less of a genocide by the BSN definition? Apparently so because they were organics, and they were Batarian. But since Shepard is going to Hell anyway, what's a few billion software programs compared to about almost 100 billion living breathing advanced organics?

Aratoht would have been orbitally bombarded, its population annihilated, if the Reapers had come through. It was already lost before I actually blew up the relay.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

I think you might have misunderstood the exercise. We're pretending that Congress knows about some sort of threat that the public doesn't. Not in the future, but right now. Today. Not the Reapers, but certainly something very powerful and dangerous that will wipe America out. Basically a weaker version of the Reapers, I guess, scaled down to harvest America instead of the galaxy. Yeah. You get the idea.

That's what I'm asking. So what do they do in that situation?

Well  David in that situation not much can be done and it would be the events of ME3 all over again

[robertthebard]

Xilizhra wrote...

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, Xilizhra, do you sacrifice the brigades? It is a very similar situation. If you do not sacrifice the brigades, you are not fit for command. It is a tough call and one that no one in command would ever make lightly.

It bears no relevance to the ending, which is why I'm waiting for you to give me a better analogy.

* No one gave me the right to tinker with nature. Nature evolves on its own in its own time. We are part of it. Without nature we would not exist. I will not play God over where I came from. The idea of synthesis is stupid.
* Control the reapers? No one person should have that much power.
* Synthetics are our creation made of metal, semiconductors, and programmed with logic and simulated responses. Without us synthetics would not exist.
* I will not leave the reapers around at the end of the story. They have no redeeming qualities. If that means sacrificing the synthetics races we created then so be it. It ends the nightmare. In my story no one will know the details of what went on in the decision chamber. On rescue her first question will be: did we win? Her second question will be: where is Liara?

Emotional appeals with little logical basis, pretty much universally. Especially because I have no idea why your axiom of "no one should have that much power" is more important than "genocide is bad," assuming you even believe the latter (which, given your Rannoch atrocitiy, you may not).

300,000 Batarians were sacrificed to slow the reaper invasion. Was that any less of a genocide by the BSN definition? Apparently so because they were organics, and they were Batarian. But since Shepard is going to Hell anyway, what's a few billion software programs compared to about almost 100 billion living breathing advanced organics?

Aratoht would have been orbitally bombarded, its population annihilated, if the Reapers had come through. It was already lost before I actually blew up the relay.

You do realize, I hope, that claiming somebody commits genocide because they disagree with your perception of the ending, and your apparently convenient definition of the word, is an emotional appeal, right?  You are trying to break it down to the most revolting scenario you can to appeal to a poster's emotions.  The fact is, this whole dialog is based on emotions since it's based on what people feel.  So, nice deflection, how about addressing the points?