221 réponses à ce sujet

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

I think the issue is (or was) that Xen wanted to bring the Geth back under control of the Quarians. She wasn't really interested in simply making peace w/ them nor in destroying them.

She's a scientist. Her interest is in studying the Geth. She has no better opportunity to do that than in the peace outcome.

In ME2 she expressed her desire in bringing the Geth back under control of the Quarians, but in ME3 she seems content w/ peace. Now that may be either some sort of change in her character, or the devs simply forgot or decided not to incorporate Xen's plans in ME3. I mean, I'm happy that she can study the Geth, but that part of the story is gone.

She was originally meant to be another assclown villain in the same vein as TIM or Udina in the leaked script who needed killing(she would sabotage some Geth in the peace outcome).

They must've realized that they already had enough assclown villains in the story. In any case, I was surprised that she wasn't made a villain and that she went to go to work on the Crucible using her scientific expertise and experience w/ the Geth.

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

In ME2 she expressed her desire in bringing the Geth back under control of the Quarians, but in ME3 she seems content w/ peace. Now that may be either some sort of change in her character, or the devs simply forgot or decided not to incorporate Xen's plans in ME3. I mean, I'm happy that she can study the Geth, but that part of the story is gone.

A moderate heel-face turn, I think. She was introduced as a mad scientist who would repeat those disastrous Geth experiments, resulting predictably in some kind of disaster. She's still interested in dissecting Legion and finding out whatever they can about the Geth, but she's more interested in preserving the Quarian fleet at that point.

The suggestion is actually that she did carry out some experiments, but that they only resulted in some new weapons and technical tricks.

It was moderate, but I was sort of feeling like she might do something to jeopardize the peace process. She was very interested in the Geth and in Rael'Zorah's experiments. And if Shepard manages to cover up Rael's actions or redirect the hearing's inquiry, Xen says that she would try to discover what Rael was up to.

[Megaton_Hope]

Ravensword wrote...

It was moderate, but I was sort of feeling like she might do something to jeopardize the peace process. She was very interested in the Geth and in Rael'Zorah's experiments. And if Shepard manages to cover up Rael's actions or redirect the hearing's inquiry, Xen says that she would try to discover what Rael was up to.

Yeah, still a nutbar.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The problem with Xen's experiments were if they were allowed to run their course would have completely messed up Walters' Starbrat ending. She had to be made completely insane because her ideas were dead on target.

[David7204]

That doesn't make any sense. Xen bring 'right' in enslaving the geth doesn't refute the idea that synthetics and organics will always be in conflict. It reinforces it. It supports it.

Modifié par David7204, 01 mai 2013 - 07:08 .

[PsyrenY]

Xen did get to Rael's data even if you hide it from her. She sends you an e-mail gloating about it in ME2.

This is likely where her "flashbang grenade" came from in ME3, that enabled the Quarians to blow up the Geth's Dyson Sphere.

EDIT: Actually, now that I recall, Tali tells you in your cabin that Rael's data is exactly where Xen's countermeasure came from.

David7204 wrote...

That doesn't make any sense. Xen bring 'right' in enslaving the geth doesn't refute the idea that synthetics and organics will always be in conflict. It reinforces it. It supports it.

Your sound logic and thoughtful reasoning have no place on BSN. Away with you!

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 01 mai 2013 - 07:13 .

[KingZayd]

KaiserShep wrote...

HunterSho21 wrote...

I think the Destroy option sucks. You spend all this time uniting the Geth and Quarians and then you just kill the Geth? Stupid. Not to mention killing EDI. A big theme in ME3 is whether AI is a forum of life. The destroy ending just negates that.

I guess it really boils down to how badly you want the reapers to simply stop existing.

Sacrificing some life, to protect the rest of life doesn't mean you consider the lives you sacrificed to be meaningless.

[Xilizhra]

KingZayd wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

HunterSho21 wrote...

I think the Destroy option sucks. You spend all this time uniting the Geth and Quarians and then you just kill the Geth? Stupid. Not to mention killing EDI. A big theme in ME3 is whether AI is a forum of life. The destroy ending just negates that.

I guess it really boils down to how badly you want the reapers to simply stop existing.

Sacrificing some life, to protect the rest of life doesn't mean you consider the lives you sacrificed to be meaningless.

This would be true if the sacrifice was actually necessary to protect the rest of life.

[KingZayd]

Xilizhra wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

HunterSho21 wrote...

I think the Destroy option sucks. You spend all this time uniting the Geth and Quarians and then you just kill the Geth? Stupid. Not to mention killing EDI. A big theme in ME3 is whether AI is a forum of life. The destroy ending just negates that.

I guess it really boils down to how badly you want the reapers to simply stop existing.

Sacrificing some life, to protect the rest of life doesn't mean you consider the lives you sacrificed to be meaningless.

This would be true if the sacrifice was actually necessary to protect the rest of life.

And most destroyers believe it is. Or don't want to risk the galaxy for the sake of one race who would be destroyed in the case of a disaster anyway.

Modifié par KingZayd, 01 mai 2013 - 02:19 .

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Of course it's Necessary

Just like it's necessary, for Synthesis people, that for organics and synthetic to coexist you need to merge or something

Just like it's necessary, for control people, that for organics and synthetic to coexist you need to watch over people

And just like it's necessary, for destroy people, that for organics and synthetics to coexist you need to destroy then rebuild

[Xilizhra]

And most destroyers believe it is. Or don't want to risk the galaxy for the sake of one race who would be destroyed in the case of a disaster anyway.

They can. Such is the very essence of Renegade.

[brian t]

There are 2 good things about control 1.The Geth don't die. 2. Edi doesn't die. Yes I liked the the Geth and EDI. The Geth here vicitms and I worked soooo hard to keep them alive and at peace with there creators.

[KingZayd]

Xilizhra wrote...

And most destroyers believe it is. Or don't want to risk the galaxy for the sake of one race who would be destroyed in the case of a disaster anyway.

They can. Such is the very essence of Renegade.

Binary morality is oversimplified. In some situations the paragon option, is the choice of the naive. My character made almost exclusively paragon decisions, but in the case of the Reapers it had to be different.
The Rachni were beaten once and could be beaten again. The same applies to the Krogan. We've been able  to successfully fight the Geth too.

But the Reapers? We can't beat them  without the Crucible, and we only get one. Unlike with those other races, if they turn against us, we stand no chance of surviving.  I admit, it wasn't the most paragon choice available, but it was the best.

Modifié par KingZayd, 01 mai 2013 - 02:52 .

[Xilizhra]

I admit, it wasn't the most paragon choice available, but it was the best.

From your point of view. Not objectively.

[robertthebard]

Xilizhra wrote...

I admit, it wasn't the most paragon choice available, but it was the best.

From your point of view. Not objectively.

So his choice is wrong objectively because your choice is right objectively?

[Ravensword]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The problem with Xen's experiments were if they were allowed to run their course would have completely messed up Walters' Starbrat ending. She had to be made completely insane because her ideas were dead on target.

And thus we got no development of Xen's character. I would've liked her to have been a mad scientist, but in doing so, EAware would've ended up making her into another, as Seboist so eloquently put, another assclown villain. The only upside of that scenario would be having to fight Quarian enemies. This would've been fun since you get to kill a diverse range of enemies, but not Quarians.

I don't see what insanity has to do w/ being "dead on target". Can't she simply be driven?

[robertthebard]

Ravensword wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The problem with Xen's experiments were if they were allowed to run their course would have completely messed up Walters' Starbrat ending. She had to be made completely insane because her ideas were dead on target.

And thus we got no development of Xen's character. I would've liked her to have been a mad scientist, but in doing so, EAware would've ended up making her into another, as Seboist so eloquently put, another assclown villain. The only upside of that scenario would be having to fight Quarian enemies. This would've been fun since you get to kill a diverse range of enemies, but not Quarians.

I don't see what insanity has to do w/ being "dead on target". Can't she simply be driven?

Except that Tali will tell her in no uncertain terms in ME 2 that she is insane.  However, point to order:  She is more worried about salvaging geth tech than saving people's lives, and you have to either let her gather the tech, or support Tali so that she'll rescue the people that need rescuing.  At what point do we start calling obsession insanity?  Doesn't the willingness to sacrifice her own people in the name of science start to toe that line?

[remydat]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Megaton_Hope wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

It was moderate, but I was sort of feeling like she might do something to jeopardize the peace process. She was very interested in the Geth and in Rael'Zorah's experiments. And if Shepard manages to cover up Rael's actions or redirect the hearing's inquiry, Xen says that she would try to discover what Rael was up to.

Yeah, still a nutbar.

I don't see what's crazy about being interested in scientific research and wanting to use it for the good of your people.

I think the issue is her wanting to experiment on and enslave another sentient species.  She is clearly prejudiced.

[Steelcan]

Modifié par Steelcan, 01 mai 2013 - 04:14 .

[Hadeedak]

I know I felt destroy was a good fit for my pragmatic renegade. But I'm sure you could justify a renegade control or even renegade synthesis. The latter might be the hardest, though, with all those squishy trust and self sacrifice vibes going on in green.

[Ravensword]

robertthebard wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The problem with Xen's experiments were if they were allowed to run their course would have completely messed up Walters' Starbrat ending. She had to be made completely insane because her ideas were dead on target.

And thus we got no development of Xen's character. I would've liked her to have been a mad scientist, but in doing so, EAware would've ended up making her into another, as Seboist so eloquently put, another assclown villain. The only upside of that scenario would be having to fight Quarian enemies. This would've been fun since you get to kill a diverse range of enemies, but not Quarians.

I don't see what insanity has to do w/ being "dead on target". Can't she simply be driven?

Except that Tali will tell her in no uncertain terms in ME 2 that she is insane.  However, point to order:  She is more worried about salvaging geth tech than saving people's lives, and you have to either let her gather the tech, or support Tali so that she'll rescue the people that need rescuing.  At what point do we start calling obsession insanity?  Doesn't the willingness to sacrifice her own people in the name of science start to toe that line?

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. I really thought she was being groomed towards being a villain of sorts.

I don't know about Tali's assessment of Xen, but Xen's "insanity" it's no more "insane" than Rael deliberately bypassing safety protocols when experimenting w/ the Geth. Obviously, such protocols are in place for a reason, and they only work if they are followed. You could say that Rael cared more for his research than that of the lives of the other Quarians abaord. He may have given his life for his research. This actually sounds more like blind ambition than insanity.

Oh, and he wanted to give Tali a house on Rannoch.It's implied that that was his primary motivation for his experiments. Xen wants to bring the Geth back under control possibly sacrificing many people as needed if it were to get the job done, or maybe there's a third way.

In any case, BW missed out on an opportunity to develop Xen's character. Cerberus would've been interested in her work. Upon retrospect, she could've been a part of the research team on Project Overlord.

[Sebby]

I like how Tali thinks conducting experiments on inanimate objects(Xen's toys) is akin to doing the same to puppies or something. This is was also coming from the same selfish brat that's willing to commit perjury to cover up for her dad who got a lot of fellow Quarians killed due to his own stupidity.

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

I like how Tali thinks conducting experiments on inanimate objects(Xen's toys) is akin to doing the same to puppies or something. This is was also coming from the same selfish brat that's willing to commit perjury to cover up for her dad who got a lot of fellow Quarians killed due to his own stupidity.

. Lets make her an admiral!

[Ravensword]

Seboist wrote...

I like how Tali thinks conducting experiments on inanimate objects(Xen's toys) is akin to doing the same to puppies or something. This is was also coming from the same selfish brat that's willing to commit perjury to cover up for her dad who got a lot of fellow Quarians killed due to his own stupidity.

Ah, that reminds me of that one ME2 thread about Tali's trial. Saphra Deden was making a case that covering up Rael's actions should be a renegade decision and not a paragon one. He then went on to argue that many people who chose not to reveal what had actually happened on the Alarei, did so simply b/c they wanted to romance Tali or that they felt like they were betraying her. She's very emotional.